E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

@7E-Bodies (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/7e-bodies_436) asked for some tips on replacing a quarter panel.  I'm guessing he's not the first nor will he be the last could benefit from some tips on replacing an E-Body quarter panel.  Since drilling out spot welds and plug welding sheet metal is already covered in a lot of other places I thought this would be a good place to focus on some other tips and tricks for hanging a full quarter panel.

Here are some of the things that I think make the job a little easier:

• I prefer to do the quarter panels on a body dolly that holds the body from frame rail points near where the suspension bolts on.  Uni-body's can flex when sheet metal is removed.
• Before you remove the old quarter panel, start by rebuilding the door hinges and install the doors (if they are empty shells add 52 pounds of dead weight evenly inside them at the bottom to pre-load).  The doors will sag about 5/8" (+/- 1/8").  Adjust and line the doors up perfectly with the old original quarter panels making sure the gaps are good and everything fits flush.  Install the front fenders, hood, and deck lid (if they are not still on the car).  Line everything up and make sure the gaps are where you want them.  By having everything in place you can be sure that the quarter panels will be installed in the correct spot and fit perfectly.
• After the doors and deck lid are lined up and bolted down good (with all bolts in the door hinges), you can remove the hood and fenders if you want, but leave the doors and deck lid on with the catch pins.  Make sure you have the deck lid torsion bars installed too.  Keep them on during all body work as they change how the deck lid is spring loaded and how it sits.
• Remove the lead from the joints on the quarter panels
• Do 1 quarter panel at a time.  You'll need to punch or drill holes in the new quarter flanges if you plan to plug weld.  This is where you have to evaluate each car and determine how much other sheet metal you need to replace and how you're going to weld them on.  Most of the time you'll be doing a trunk floor pan and lower trunk extensions so be thinking of everything you can do without taking more sheet metal off then you absolutely have to.  Full trunks pans should be done while you have the quarter off as they do not fit through the trunk opening with both quarters on.  Sometimes you have to take a little more metal off to get to everything.  But as long as you leave the doors and your alignment points in place you should be able to get everything back perfect.
• Test fit the new quarter panel.  It's a good time to make sure your rear valance fits good too.  Most likely you're going to need to do some metal work to get the body lines to fit perfectly.  Use the door and deck lid to show you exactly where it needs to go.  Get the gaps perfect.  Good gaps is what really sets up a car for a perfect paint job.
• Use metal screws or Clecos to hold things tightly in place while you make all the adjustments and metal work.  Do not weld anything in place until you are 100% it's exactly where you want it.  Then only remove as much as you need to weld.  Use vice-grips and or anything else to make sure it does not move while welding.
• If you're doing a Challenger, you really should test fit the gas cap as the reproduction fuel filler holes have been known not to fit very well.
• Test fit your marker lights (and tail lights) plus test install your rear window.
• Now is a good time to test fit your window trim.  It's easy to line it up and make little bends while the car is in metal.  Once it's painted you'll not want to scratch the new paint.  You don't need to polish the trim yet, just make sure it fit well.  You might need to make changes to the metal to make it fit well.  If it's a 1970 Cuda or Challenger you'll want to drill your trim holes (I think they are 1/4"?). 1971 and up use the pins instead of holes.

Please feel free to suggest any other tips or tricks or anything that I missed.

Re-lead it like the factory.  Eastwood makes a pretty good kit for the beginner.

There are some pretty good resins now with reinforcements, but lead is the best I have found.

Quote from: Timmy C on June 26, 2017, 03:43:43 PM
Great tips!  How do you go about finishing the seem at the roof?

Step 1   
"I prefer to do the quarter panels on a body dolly that holds the body from frame rail points near where the suspension bolts on.  Uni-body's can flex when sheet metal is removed."

While I agree a body dolly or a frame table is the best option & while some insist letting the car sit on it's suspension is fine which I totally disagree with.. I & most guys I know don't have a body dolly or a frame table.... 

What I've done with excellent results is use eight jack stands, two per frame rail... I use a five foot carpenters level to check the elevation side to side & i use the level & a few metal rods cut to the needed length to check elevation front to back....  Since the Jack stands can't do small adjustments I use metal shims to assure contact at the proper elevation with each jack stand....

Having the proper frame chart will give you all the info on elevation front to back & side to side...

A few other tips:
Full Quarters go on beneath the roof skin, so be prepared to dig through whatever covers the C pillar seam- be it bondo or lead filler.
Break the welds free for the roof skin.
Clean and prep the window channel
Clean and prep the body structure, doing any repairs before fully installing the quarter panel.
Strip the mating surfaces of the B pillar door latch plate
Strip and prep the trunk gutter support
Strip and prep the tail panel- if you are like many people, you might be replacing the trunk floor, trunk extensions and tail panel all in one shot. Take note- there is a sequence to stick with that guarantees success. If you have to replace the tail panel at the same time as the quarter panel and trunk floor, and can keep the trunk gutter, it gives you something to reference. Take measurements!
One note on the quarter panels: I see a ton of cars cracking in this corner. The upper inside flange at the quarter window is short of where it should be- leaving a pie shaped wedge open between the quarter window roof rail and the quarter panel. I would suggest welding a tab of sheet metal in this area to ensure good contact to the roof rail structure. (I'll post pics of this detail)
At this point, I Roughly hang the quarter panel with the door on the car. (Many people replace the hinges/pins, but you may want to have the quarter panel on the car.
For quarter panel installation/fitment You technically do not need to have the front fender on, but it could help.
At this point, the door is on, and it latches. The quarter panel is loose.
Position the quarter panel, in, out, up, down, sighting down the body line repeatedly. Once you think you have it positioned, clamp it down with C clamps, c clamp vise grips. (Something with pressure.)
I start clamping at the back of the car, then the roof ditch channel, then the lower.
I open and close the door, then recheck.
Once the quarter panel passes my sight line test, 20' test, top view and bottom view, then and only then do I drill pilot holes.
Screw the panel to the body. Remove the clamps.
Open and close the doors, checking the trunk gutter position and trunk gap.
Pull out that 1/4 panel trim you've squirreled away, because now is the time to test fit it!
Make sure you also include your rear valence in the test fit.
Once you've checked all of your gaps and trim, it's time to make sure the glass fits.
Once you are sure everything fits, and the panel is where you want it, your screws are your alignment feature.
Some people prefer the 3M panel bond, some prefer to weld. I chose the 3M panel bond.
Get a partner, and get some 3M panel bond adhesive. Apply as directed, and set it on the car according to the position you set up with the screws.
Screw it on while the adhesive is still wet.
You may want to tack weld areas in at least 4 corners, so leave a little room.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/74ee87b25bff3702bb3827f9510773d4.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/f48ebcc111d7601905d09448e84ad3f9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/c7ddd66af45c58e52bdd76233b8ecc0b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/f6de133ac813f1c801d5bc06a6c9e528.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/7f8acacd74ce4f7e814dd105a61611f4.jpg)


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For anybody who is scared of panel bond. It's stronger than you would ever imagine. Toyota says NOT to use it on panel replacement of their vehicles. But the reason is not what you would think. It's to strong and stiff. It effects the engineered spot welds that allow panels to crumple in a collision.

With that said. I still prefer welding just for the fact that you can make minor adjustments as your going along with your welds. A little push and pull on the panels. The other thing I don't like is the fact there is no going back. Once it's there, Its there. With welding you can grind or drill a weld if something didn't fit exactly like you want.

The nice thing about panel bond is corrosion protection. You are sealing a joint with no small gaps for moisture to get in. The other thing is you eliminate panel warpage do to heat from welding.   

Well put Shane!

For the first timers, or the people lucky enough to have a spot welder, this is a good way to adjust and tweak.





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Than you Dan and Shane for your input.    :clapping:  Both very helpful.  :worship:

What I found while building a couple cars is.

its near to impossible to get the front edge of the quarter panel over the upper retainer. Its easier to break the weld lose on the lock pillar. Don't remove it , just at the lock pillar and push it down. This will allow you to fit the quarter with out fighting that retainer.

Also. Remember no 2 panels are alike. I have installed Goodmark and AMD Cuda quarters and Both fit fine. Amd has a better body line than the Goodmark and is what they have prided them selves on. In some cases it is NOT the panel that has the fitment issue , It is the car that it is being put on. A lot of variables without knowing the true history of a car if you are not the original owner.

Seam Sealer, was used for a reason. We tend to Over think and over restore when doing these project. a 1/4" gap was nothing back then. Reason for the seam sealer being gooped into places.

I also have used with many customers the 3m Panel bond. It is great stuff with great results. Bonds, seals, fills, and is sandable. As Shane pointed out. Once you go down that path there is no going back. you generally have about 60-90 minute window to fudge with. Depending on temperature and humidity. But if you test fit and test fit and confident of the panel placement. Then no worries. You also can panel bond and weld also. A tad messy at times but doable.

Nice writup on this! I'm about to change mine soon, ran in to some bad repairs when I cut the old ones off, so I'm dealing with that now. I'm using Goodmark skins on my converitble. Gonna TIG weld along the upper edge of the quarter, but now you guys got me thinking, maybe I should use the 3M bond between the wheelhouses and the quarter, and also on the B pillar flange? I like the idea of a total waterproof seal there. Gonna research this a bit more before I decide.

How about using 3M bond on the outer wheelhouse? Would that work well? Especially where the wisegrips are in the picture, that area that connects the 2 halves is not spotwelded, I had a hard time removing it, seems like a long weld that runs along the whole flange, looks a spotweld type, but all over (hard to explain, but there was no gaps in the weld).

I wouldn't recommend bonding the outer wheelhouse to the inner. It would "probably" hold but I really think that should be welded. I know for myself I would feel more comfortable with a weld.   

And I disagree completely, it's the perfect place to use panel bonding adhesive.....   It'll seal the full length of the seal so moisture thrown off the tires can't get into the seam.... 

The bonding appeals to me just because of the seal and rust protection, especially in that area. Would it be possible to use the 3M stuff, tighten with screws while its drying, then weld up the screwholes? How would the glue react to a quick MAG weld? And for example the quarters flange on the B pillar, cant get to that with wisegrips, if you glue it, how would you press it together?

the melting temp of the panel bonder is high but it will melt with that type of heat.

Quote from: MoparDave on June 29, 2017, 01:35:55 PM
the melting temp of the panel bonder is high but it will melt with that type of heat.

:iagree: It might seem like it's fine at first. But you will probably end up with it popping loose after your car is done and painted. Stuff like that always waits until it's painted.

Hi I am new to this so forgive me if I am making a stuff up. I live in Durban South Africa. I purchased a 1971 Cuda with a 6.1 Hemi which had been in a front end smash,Ouch. I have stripped it down and believe it needs everything to the fire wall including the upper fire wall. The alterkton front suspension and Hydraulic steering is also damaged. I think it would be safe to replace this. Any suggestions on best suspension and company for the body parts. I have attached photos so you have an idea of the damage. I may have to send in 2 messages. Driver side rail is damaged right down to the securing point under the fire wall.
Cheers John

Quote from: Cuda Cody on June 26, 2017, 03:19:36 PM
@7E-Bodies (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/7e-bodies_436) asked for some tips on replacing a quarter panel.  I'm guessing he's not the first nor will he be the last could benefit from some tips on replacing an E-Body quarter panel.  Since drilling out spot welds and plug welding sheet metal is already covered in a lot of other places I thought this would be a good place to focus on some other tips and tricks for hanging a full quarter panel.

Here are some of the things that I think make the job a little easier:

• I prefer to do the quarter panels on a body dolly that holds the body from frame rail points near where the suspension bolts on.  Uni-body's can flex when sheet metal is removed.
• Before you remove the old quarter panel, start by rebuilding the door hinges and install the doors (if they are empty shells add 52 pounds of dead weight evenly inside them at the bottom to pre-load).  The doors will sag about 5/8" (+/- 1/8").  Adjust and line the doors up perfectly with the old original quarter panels making sure the gaps are good and everything fits flush.  Install the front fenders, hood, and deck lid (if they are not still on the car).  Line everything up and make sure the gaps are where you want them.  By having everything in place you can be sure that the quarter panels will be installed in the correct spot and fit perfectly.
• After the doors and deck lid are lined up and bolted down good (with all bolts in the door hinges), you can remove the hood and fenders if you want, but leave the doors and deck lid on with the catch pins.  Make sure you have the deck lid torsion bars installed too.  Keep them on during all body work as they change how the deck lid is spring loaded and how it sits.
• Remove the lead from the joints on the quarter panels
• Do 1 quarter panel at a time.  You'll need to punch or drill holes in the new quarter flanges if you plan to plug weld.  This is where you have to evaluate each car and determine how much other sheet metal you need to replace and how you're going to weld them on.  Most of the time you'll be doing a trunk floor pan and lower trunk extensions so be thinking of everything you can do without taking more sheet metal off then you absolutely have to.  Full trunks pans should be done while you have the quarter off as they do not fit through the trunk opening with both quarters on.  Sometimes you have to take a little more metal off to get to everything.  But as long as you leave the doors and your alignment points in place you should be able to get everything back perfect.
• Test fit the new quarter panel.  It's a good time to make sure your rear valance fits good too.  Most likely you're going to need to do some metal work to get the body lines to fit perfectly.  Use the door and deck lid to show you exactly where it needs to go.  Get the gaps perfect.  Good gaps is what really sets up a car for a perfect paint job.
• Use metal screws or Clecos to hold things tightly in place while you make all the adjustments and metal work.  Do not weld anything in place until you are 100% it's exactly where you want it.  Then only remove as much as you need to weld.  Use vice-grips and or anything else to make sure it does not move while welding.
• If you're doing a Challenger, you really should test fit the gas cap as the reproduction fuel filler holes have been known not to fit very well.
• Test fit your marker lights (and tail lights) plus test install your rear window.
• Now is a good time to test fit your window trim.  It's easy to line it up and make little bends while the car is in metal.  Once it's painted you'll not want to scratch the new paint.  You don't need to polish the trim yet, just make sure it fit well.  You might need to make changes to the metal to make it fit well.  If it's a 1970 Cuda or Challenger you'll want to drill your trim holes (I think they are 1/4"?). 1971 and up use the pins instead of holes.

Please feel free to suggest any other tips or tricks or anything that I missed.

I have not used the panel bonding adhesive so I can't help much there, but maybe @Dmz73 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/dmz73_183)  will chime in.

Quote from: 74CudaChief on June 29, 2017, 03:47:10 PM
Dmz73,

"Strip and prep the tail panel- if you are like many people, you might be replacing the trunk floor, trunk extensions and tail panel all in one shot. Take note- there is a sequence to stick with that guarantees success. If you have to replace the tail panel at the same time as the quarter panel and trunk floor, and can keep the trunk gutter, it gives you something to reference. Take measurements!"

Fantastic info and pictures, thank you!  I do have a couple questions from your quote above because I'm going to replace both rear quarter panels, trunk pan, and tail panel. Once I dig into it I'm sure I will have to replace the trunk extensions as well.

Question 1. What is the specific sequence (for the items I am replacing) to stick with that guarantees success?

Question 2. What is the trunk gutter?  Is it the space around and or between the trunk seal and other body panels?....

Question 3. What specific measurements do I need to take?  From where to where?

Thank you for your time and patients.

 :inlove:  WOW @JohnP (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/johnp_680)  that was one super nice Cuda!!!! 

Quote from: JohnP on July 20, 2018, 06:19:01 AM
All replaced new and double checked all ball joints.

The NEW wheel vintage wheel that I had replaced WAS the problem and the road force balance was what found It!  :alan2cents:

I had all wheels checked for damage and balancing and found they were out of balance and had to rotate one tire. Is this what you mean by wheel road-force balance.

No, there is A machine the puts pressure on the tire while it spins. only certain places have it, high end tire shops and A few car dealers. you will have to call around. 

Thanks for the information. I will speak to the panel shop and see if they know which company does this. I hope to have my car back in 2 weeks. If you have any information on the wheel aligment specifications with Alterktion please send them to me.

Have a nice day and thank you again for the information. I am going around to the panel shop now to see how they are going. It is 15.30 here now.

Cheers

I am sorry but I don't have any information on alignment specs on Alterktion setups. It is said that 1995 Mustang GT specs are good to use on stock E-bodys with radial tires.   

Thank you for the reply. I am not too clued up on this site to send out to the general members or I would send out to them all. Maybe someone would know the settings.

What is this part called and where can I find one.. Or before I waste money, did it serve a purpose?

It a jack bracket and here is a link to where you can buy one.

http://www.autometaldirect.com/amd-jack-bracket-front-70-74-e-body-p-5022.html

Ah thank you!!! When I got my car back from body shop purgatory the old outer wheel well was gone along with that.