Question - is there any chance that the radiator support would not of been stamped on a car?
On this 70 Cuda i just bought, i can not find a stamping on the radiator support.
The car is a one owner since 1970 and they swear the car was never wrecked.
I have the original fenders, hood, and bumper and they have obviously never been bent or had body work done.
If any of the metal around the radiator support has been replaced I would be shocked.
There is nothing on the front end to indicate that anything has been replaced or re-worked.
The stamping on the cowl is there and legible although it is lightly stamped.
Tonight I will get some pics of the area around the radiator support and see if i can show what i am seeing.
I am also going to take the seats apart and see if I can find a build sheet. :fingerscrossed:
TIA
It happened... Rarely...
There are other ways to tell is something has been replaced. Factory spot welds and part stamping batch numbers. If the car has been repainted it's more likely that the number was covered up with thick paint. I've seen that a few times. I've yet to see a core not stamped, but it's possible it could have happened. Can you post some photos of the front radiator support area and we'll be happy to tell you if we notice anything unusual.
I've seen one.
I wonder if any of the unstamped ones line up with specific days and shifts. Like the machine didn't work when they were installing the front radiator support on 100 cars or something.
They stamped the radiator and cowl at the same time (with the same machine) and that's why the numbers match exactly in the font and if the numbers are slightly high or low they usually are the same on both.
Oh, Ok.
so one shift over the year had a guy that was drunk and forgot a bunch of stamps? I assume the machine was manned.?
Anything is possible The Barrelcuda cowl stamp is one number off the VIN number :dunno:
Quote from: Cuda Cody on May 08, 2018, 02:10:32 PM
They stamped the radiator and cowl at the same time (with the same machine) and that's why the numbers match exactly in the font and if the numbers are slightly high or low they usually are the same on both.
:iagree: with Cody...Check out the two stamps on my last AAR Cuda...see how the "3" is out of wack on both stamps...
Quote from: anlauto on May 08, 2018, 02:45:15 PM
Anything is possible The Barrelcuda cowl stamp is one number off the VIN number :dunno:
I've seen that a couple of times before
Hi Jeff
Does your car still have the coolant decal on the rad support, could be under there. :alan2cents:
Tom
Ok, here are several pics (I hope not too many) of the radiator support where I would expect the stamping to be.
Also one of the cowl stamp. The cowl stamp is fairly light but readable. I can also feel the cowl stamp on the back side.
The area has been repainted and at first i thought maybe it had been painted over with heavy coat of paint, but I can not feel any sort of stamping indention anywhere around the radiator support.
I also included several pics of the places where the support ties to the fender apron and other places that would have to of been changed if it had been replaced.
i do not believe there has been any work done on the front end of this car. All the spots look as if they are factory welds and never drilled out.
The apron has not been bent or reworked. None of the sheet metal or bumper has been bent or reworked.
The entire rad cradle has been replaced :alan2cents:
I'm looking at this on a small phone screen. To me it looks like the core support was replaced. The inner fender looks a little wrinkled and the welds at the frame rails in front don't look factory. Again I am looking at this on a small screen.
:iagree:
Ok, what are you seeing that makes you think that?
Not disputing your opinion because i have seen enough on here already to know that you know way more about these cars than i do.
Had couple of buddies look at it that are in the body/paint business. They dont think any of the sheet metal has been replaced because of the way all the welds and joints look.
First off the weld nuts are incorrect for the battery tray and battery ground, the wire holder tab is wrong, there's mig weld at several points where the aprons and rad support meet the frame rail, the lower rad support has obviously been off and re-welded, etc...etc...
:worship:
OK then, guess that would explain not being stamped huh?
Now makes me wonder about some of the other stuff he has told me.
They owned the car since later half of 1970 and swore it had not been wrecked.
Thanks a lot for your input anlauto and the rest.
Yes, the front radiator support does look as if it's been replaced. There's a couple of locations that give it away. Due to speed and efficiency the factory used spot welds to put metal together whenever it could. Plus several locations appear to show "small differences" from a factory piece that tells me it's been replaced. I can not say for sure, but I would guess that it has been replaced.
Here's a photo of a front frame rail of a 1970 E-Body showing you how the factory spot welded the frame section and the radiator support. Hope that helps a bit. I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's most likely the truth. And you can still enjoy your car just as much and it's still going to be super fun to drive! :burnout:
Thanks Cody.
Now that i see that pic even i can see the difference.
It is kind of irritating still tho, but it is what it is. Time to move on and get this thing on the road again.
I did get a ton of history with the car from magazine it was featured in to multiple Starbird and other shows it was in.
It is still kind of unique in the respect.
Thanks again all.
Tell us more about the car? How did you find it and what are your plans? :popcorn:
Short version -
It was a special order car that was bought by a guy early in 70 who got inducted into the service later that year and was going overseas so he sold the car.
The guy that bought it from him did auto paint work so he repainted the car and put the stripes and mural on it that is in some of the other pics that I have posted.
The mural is hard to see in the pics but it showed the Pinta, Nina, and Santa Maria ships floating on the ocean and he called it the "Spirit OF 76".
The car was some Darryl Starbird shows and several other shows around Kansas Missouri area over the years. Street Machine magazine did a write up on it in Jan of 76.
This owner also and another 70 Cuda that was a black with red interior and 383 - 4 speed in it.
He started having some health issues some time in mid 2000s range so he sold the 2 Cudas to his brother.
The brother had had a friend of mine restore a couple of cars for him in the past so he brought the 2 Cudas to him and wanted those done also.
They did the black one first and then started on this one. This one kind of stalled out and has been sitting in the guy I know shop for close to 10 years.
I had seen the car several years ago and told him if it ever came up for sale to keep me in mind. Well they finally got together month or so ago and the owner called and made me an offer I couldnt refuse.
lol - maybe that isnt the short version.
I am going thru the all the parts now trying to determine what I have and what I need.
The car was taken apart over 10 years ago and not by my buddy, then it was moved a couple of times so I am missing a lot of pieces.
I want to put the car back together as right as possible. I would love to have someone with the expertise of alnauto finish it, but I just dont know that is possible due to the logistics and finances.
Once I get it all inventoried I can start getting some budgeting worked out then I will make a plan.
I do have those tires and wheels that were on it in these pics...
Cool story and some great history! :twothumbsup: You've come to the right place to get good honest and fair opinions about E-Bodies. We're always excited to help and see E-Bodies be put back on the road. :burnout:
...and so this is a V code car white with red interior correct ? Very cool :drooling:
What are the original options?
Cool story. Cool ride!
I have a magazine from the 70's somewhere with your car in it. Street Machine was the magazine I believe.
Yes sir. Original V code Alpine White with red interior.
The more I research it, I take it this was not a common color combo - like in I have not seen another V code with that combo yet.
Is there any place to see what the breakdown is for different color combos?
I know there were enough different ways to option out one of these that you could almost say they are all 1 of a few but it would be interesting to know.
The car still has number match engine and trans.
Here is a pdf of fender tag decoding.
I do have fender tag, but no build sheet.
I took the seats apart couple of days ago with no luck there.
Since the car was already apart when I got it, if it was stuck someplace else in the car then it is gone now.
Back When Street Machine mag did the article on it, the owner had swapped it over to a 4bbl carb so nobody knows where the original carbs wound up.
So far only thing I know I am missing are the carbs and air cleaner and the original wheels.
I did get the mags with tires still on them that were on the car in the article and they even held air.
Also have the original spare wheel and tire that came on the car new.
IF it is the original spare, that could give you an idea of the rims it left the factory with, or at least the size. What's it have for a spare ?
It's a rare car that certainly deserves a correct original style restoration.... :alan2cents: 4:10 with auto is NICE too
:rubeyes: A couple clarifications for your fender tag .....
for the US spec. '70 'cuda hardtop (BS23):
EW1 (~2.7%) ~451 cars - #13 of 20 colors
H6E4 (~3.2%) ~535 cars - #8 of 20 interiors
BS23V0 w/D32 & A32 (~2.2%) ~ 368 cars
as you stated there are millions of combinations available with all OPTIONs considered & less than 20,000 'cuda hardtops built for '70
I understand ALL combinations are not practical or available but .....
(20 colors x 20 interiors x 7 tops x 12 stripes/mouldings x 6 engines x 3 transmissions = 604,800 combinations)
What do you mean "#8 of 20 interiors" Was there 20 different interior combinations ? :clueless:
Ok, corrected the pdf.
I was trying to do that off a pic on my phone and kind of missed couple of letters.
Thanks for pointing that out for me.
Quote from: anlauto on May 11, 2018, 11:31:06 AM
What do you mean "#8 of 20 interiors" Was there 20 different interior combinations ? :clueless:
crazy :crazytalk:
black vinyl bucket
H6X9 ~ 61.7%
white vinyl bucket w/black dash
H6XW ~ 9.5%
green vinyl bucket
H6F8 ~ 5.8%
blue vinyl bucket
H6B5 ~ 5.5%
black vinyl bench
H4X9 ~ 4.8%
black leather bucket
PRX9 ~ 3.3%
red vinyl bucket
H6E4 ~ 3.2%
tan vinyl bucket
H6T5 ~ 2.2%
tan leather bucket
PRT5 ~ 1.1%
white vinyl bench w/black dash
H4XW ~ 0.9%
green vinyl bench
H4F8 ~ 0.8%
blue vinyl bench
H4B5 ~ 0.7%
white leather bucket w/black dash
PRXW ~ 0.6%
white vinyl bucket w/blue dash
H6BW ~ 0.4%
white vinyl bucket w/red dash
H6EW ~ 0.2%
white vinyl bucket w/green dash
H6FW ~ 0.2%
black vinyl w/houndstooth insert bucket
P5X9 ~ 0.1%
white vinyl bench w/blue dash
H4BW < 0.1%
white vinyl bench w/green dash
H4FW < 0.1%
white leather bucket w/blue dash
PRXW < 0.1%
white leather bucket w/red dash
PRXW < 0.1%
white leather bucket w/green dash
PRXW < 0.1%
the above
22 interiors add up to 101+% - :unbelievable: - ERROR based on adding ~20 rounded numbers
& the V5R "protective body-side mouldings & pinstripes in RED" are probably the single RAREST OPTION on the OP's 440+6 'cuda
Quote from: 6bblgt on May 11, 2018, 12:47:45 PM
& the V5R "protective body-side mouldings & pinstripes in RED" are probably the single RAREST OPTION on the OP's 440+6 'cuda
That would be sweet if he was to restore it with those back on it.....few people in the world would. :drooling:
Is there any available vinyl trim that's similar ? :thinking:
Performance Car Graphics offers the pinstripes http://www.performancecargraphics.com/Stripes_Lettering/Barracuda/70_Mid_Pinstripe.htm
& I've seen a couple restored cars with the mouldings, there must be something "close' - there was a restored EB5 340 'cuda w/added SHAKER in CA that ended up at RK Motors that had the mouldings/stripes - I think I have pics :thinking:
I have been trying to find a pic of a full car with that to see what it looked like - but no luck so far.
If you have one I would like to see that.
And I am assuming those numbers you listed are for all 70 cudas, not just V code, correct?
Quote from: 6bblgt on May 11, 2018, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: anlauto on May 11, 2018, 11:31:06 AM
What do you mean "#8 of 20 interiors" Was there 20 different interior combinations ? :clueless:
crazy :crazytalk:
black vinyl bucket H6X9 ~ 61.7%
white vinyl bucket w/black dash H6XW ~ 9.5%
green vinyl bucket H6F8 ~ 5.8%
blue vinyl bucket H6B5 ~ 5.5%
black vinyl bench H4X9 ~ 4.8%
black leather bucket PRX9 ~ 3.3%
red vinyl bucket H6E4 ~ 3.2%
tan vinyl bucket H6T5 ~ 2.2%
tan leather bucket PRT5 ~ 1.1%
white vinyl bench w/black dash H4XW ~ 0.9%
green vinyl bench H4F8 ~ 0.8%
blue vinyl bench H4B5 ~ 0.7%
white leather bucket w/black dash PRXW ~ 0.6%
white vinyl bucket w/blue dash H6BW ~ 0.4%
white vinyl bucket w/red dash H6EW ~ 0.2%
white vinyl bucket w/green dash H6FW ~ 0.2%
black vinyl w/houndstooth insert bucket P5X9 ~ 0.1%
white vinyl bench w/blue dash H4BW < 0.1%
white vinyl bench w/green dash H4FW < 0.1%
white leather bucket w/blue dash PRXW < 0.1%
white leather bucket w/red dash PRXW < 0.1%
white leather bucket w/green dash PRXW < 0.1%
the above 22 interiors add up to 101+% - :unbelievable: - ERROR based on adding ~20 rounded numbers
How about the coloured vinyl/cloth seats?
I think Dan's list is only for 1970 Barracuda/Cuda ....and I'm not certain but I think you could only get black/white houndstooth :thinking:
Quote from: pbajeff on May 11, 2018, 03:44:18 PM
And I am assuming those numbers you listed are for all 70 cudas, not just V code, correct?
yes, the numbers are all '70 'cudas (BS23) ONLY
the only combinations that were tracked were: engine/transmission/axle
Quote from: anlauto on May 11, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
I think Dan's list is only for 1970 Barracuda/Cuda ....and I'm not certain but I think you could only get black/white houndstooth :thinking:
the list is 'cuda hardtop only (BS23)
the P5X9 black vinyl & cloth black/white houndstooth insert w/red piping (Gran Coupe) interior was added mid-year to the 'cuda, if the P5K4 burnt orange vinyl & cloth black/burnt orange insert (Gran Coupe) interior was also available in a 'cuda - it would fall into the < 0.1% category (<9 cars).
Quote from: 6bblgt on May 11, 2018, 12:47:45 PM
& the V5R "protective body-side mouldings & pinstripes in RED" are probably the single RAREST OPTION on the OP's 440+6 'cuda
I really like those V5R mouldings. I've been looking for a set to purchase forever. Probably won't find a set, but I'm always looking.
Quote from: cuda hunter on May 17, 2018, 04:59:14 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on May 11, 2018, 12:47:45 PM
& the V5R "protective body-side mouldings & pinstripes in RED" are probably the single RAREST OPTION on the OP's 440+6 'cuda
I really like those V5R mouldings. I've been looking for a set to purchase forever. Probably won't find a set, but I'm always looking.
Are the V5R mouldings the same as the inserts in the body protection mouldings?
The insert is around 5/8.
Quote from: anlauto on May 11, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
I think Dan's list is only for 1970 Barracuda/Cuda ....and I'm not certain but I think you could only get black/white houndstooth :thinking:
I know this is an old thread but...how much different were the '70 Challengers? I had one that had a blue houndstooth interior. I assume the Barracudas didn't have that option?