My Barracuda is currently apart for a new clutch and 4 spd rebuild and I keep thinking about changing the look and going old school with it. I`m thinking jacking up the rear with wide Pro Tracs on slots or something, maybe old Pro Stock hood scoop or even a tunnel ram thru the hood, traction bars and other period stuff. Should I do it or do you think I`l get tired of it as it won`t be a real nice cruiser or good handler, not that it is now with 3.91s and loud exhaust so I really wouldn`t be sacrificing much? Thoughts anyone have one built like that?
Something like this
How's this for old school?
Might give you inspiration!
How will you use it and how long have you wanted to go with this style? I love the old school look
I went to a local show and saw a big block with a tunnel ram and huge velocity stacks and for about a month I wanted to cut a hole in my hood and run the same. I have 2 hoods so was going to modify one and leave the other in case I wanted to go back. Now I think I'm over that...until I see another.
Quote from: 340challconvert on November 20, 2017, 08:28:04 AM
How's this for old school?
Might give you inspiration!
Cool but not really old school with those big wheels, 2 tone paint etc.
I have done old school with a past project and have wanted to with a couple other ones, my `70 road runner is going mostly stock with a few day 2 add ons, my Duster drag car was going old school Stock look with blue headlights and blue and white panel paint job and maybe even some lace. My Barracuda is my driver but like I said with 3.91`s and Flowmasters it is not a long distance highway car, just local driving, shows, drags so if I go old schoo with it it really wouldn`t affect how I drive it. I also think it might get more attention at cruise nights/ shows done like that, not that I need the attention but I think it would just be a fun car to drive and show.
While you cannot beat the old look I doubt you would be happy with it for very long , you want radials at least & with Hotchkiss parts the newer set ups ride & handle great , with newer tech you wouldhave a car you would wnat to drive a lot more
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on November 20, 2017, 11:41:49 AM
While you cannot beat the old look I doubt you would be happy with it for very long , you want radials at least & with Hotchkiss parts the newer set ups ride & handle great , with newer tech you wouldhave a car you would wnat to drive a lot more
:iagree: But ultimately it's your car and you should build it the way you want. Your not building it for any of us. While I do appreciate the old school look there is just something about modern suspension upgrades that make them a lot more enjoyable to drive. I will say some of those 70's crazy psychedelic paint jobs kick ass.
Kinda depends on how you drive it now and how far into the retro/drag look you go to determine if you could tolerate it longer term.
You ca still step up spring rates, run wide tires front and rear, and lift it some without totally compromising its street manners, but you won't be diving into any corners with Vettes that way, unless you don't do that now, in which case you may not notice the change so much.
PRO STREET, NOW DEAD IS MY FAV. Now it's all pro mod.
I'm doing my Cuda old school. My goal is to make it look period corrrect without slicks to go at this time. I kinda took the attitude that I was 18 years old and modifying the car with what was available back in the day to make it handle and perform best (like we did). I cant do any better that that. I see a lot of cars being restored to original but that's no fun!
It really depends on how and if you use it. Honestly a lot of the old school stuff really sucked. Jacked up rears made the car handle like crap, Skinny front tires handled bad too. I always liked picking off cars with hood scoops so if you do run a scoop or a tunnel ram through the hood it would be best to be able to back it up.
Here was my ride in 1976, I hunted down every jacked up or tunnel rammed car I could find and let the 440 handle the rest.
I like headers, period correct cast valve covers though.
Right now the car is lower than stock with big block suspension, front and rear sway bars and cheapo gas shocks with BFGs and it handles OK. As I said it is not a car I drive for long distances now due to the 3.91`s and Flowmasters. If I want to drive it more/longer distances I would have to change rear gears and add an overdrive gear or 5 spd and change the exhaust to something quieter. If I ever get my road runner done it will be my cruiser with 3.23s, a torquey 383 and pretty stock suspension so I don`t care if the cuda rides and drives a bit rough as it`s my local, fun beat on street and drag car. Of course the other way to go is a set of 17-18" Minilites and full suspension upgrades with stickier tires and make a killer handling car along the lines of Brad`s Challenger.
It doesn't sound so bad right now. I like the minilite idea too though.
I would love to put a set classic Centerline rims on my pro-touring cuda. If I could only get a set in 18". It would give it an old school look and keep the modern drivability. I am not worried about the brakes overheating without any holes in the rims for most of my driving. A spare set of shoes gets expensive for these cars though.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on November 21, 2017, 05:19:27 PM
It doesn't sound so bad right now. I like the minilite idea too though.
Ya, just need to change it up a bit, other than a recent wheel change it`s been pretty much the same since `96 and I`m a bit bored with it appearance wise.
I say do it
IMHO the BFG banner Cuda represents the classic old school day 2 look. I think your's is very close to the tire size and stance, maybe just swap out wheels.
side pipes
scoop
or go the other way and do this minus the numbers
I like #42....hopefully the #'s are magnetic ones. This is the direction I am Taking with my Challenger 340. As a matter of fact the T/A hood arrives today from Year One :banana:
Hell a 671 blower will definitely give you a smile on your face.
Do whatever makes you happy. Damn the torpedos! :bigthumb:
Quote from: IRON MAN on November 22, 2017, 09:21:17 AM
I like #42....hopefully the #'s are magnetic ones. This is the direction I am Taking with my Challenger 340. As a matter of fact the T/A hood arrives today from Year One
Nah, those are stuck on there. That is a dedicated race car. It sees no street time.
Quote from: HP_Cuda on November 22, 2017, 10:11:56 AM
Hell a 671 blower will definitely give you a smile on your face.
Do whatever makes you happy. Damn the torpedos! :bigthumb:
Wish I could afford that!
I'll tell ya , nothing puts a grin on my face like pulling up behind a yuppie with a newer BWM, Mercedes on an on/off ramp and almost feeding them the bumper waving at them to go. Or when getting off an off ramp and watching them almost loose it trying to keep up. Or moving over out of the hammer lane letting them go by , then come up behind them . (OD transmission works great here) They often check the rear view mirror every couple of seconds shocked that you are still there. Another one I find funny is watching people behind me when I make a right hand turn in town. I don't even touch the brakes, often I accelerate on purpose , then watch them almost spin out because they figure if I'm not braking then they don't need to either!
People don't expect these cars to handle, they know they are fast . Point is it's fun surprising people especially the stereotypical BMW types.... my suggestion, make your car handle, its great fun , nobody expects it from a Mopar musclecar! :)
I really like the old school look, that's the era I grew up in The 70's great times. I also like the factory stock look with a slightly wider tires. So the way I'm going is old school with the 10" Cragars with 60 /275R/ 15 on back with Cragars and skinnies on front and air shocks. I'm going to pick up a flat hood and mold a pro stock scoop on and I'll be good to go. Then I'll have my stock scooped hood a set of Magnum 500's with 235/60R/15 to run the factory look when I want. Just swap the hoods, wheels, tires and lower the air shocks and in a hour and a half you're rolling factory again. It's your car, anyway you go will be just fine as long as it put's a smile on your face when you turn the key forward. :)
Back in the early - mid 70's there was a circuit that people would cruise in my town. A buddy had a lime green 70 Cuda with a 440. It had a radical barely streetable cam and a high rise Eldebrock intake. He put a scoop similar to the one in this pic on his hood. That car looked and sounded so bad azz that no one ever wanted to race him. I would love to find a good quality hood with that scoop attached. That to me is "old school" :D
Quote from: Brads70 on November 23, 2017, 06:48:01 AM
I'll tell ya , nothing puts a grin on my face like pulling up behind a yuppie with a newer BWM, Mercedes on an on/off ramp and almost feeding them the bumper waving at them to go. Or when getting off an off ramp and watching them almost loose it trying to keep up. Or moving over out of the hammer lane letting them go by , then come up behind them . (OD transmission works great here) They often check the rear view mirror every couple of seconds shocked that you are still there. Another one I find funny is watching people behind me when I make a right hand turn in town. I don't even touch the brakes, often I accelerate on purpose , then watch them almost spin out because they figure if I'm not braking then they don't need to either!
People don't expect these cars to handle, they know they are fast . Point is it's fun surprising people especially the stereotypical BMW types.... my suggestion, make your car handle, its great fun , nobody expects it from a Mopar musclecar! :)
A bunch of years back I cruised past a BMW M model on a 2 lane divided highway and he pulled back up and wanted to play. We did a couple acceleration blasts from 65mph up and each time I pulled him by 4-5 car lengths, I think he was a bit surprised.
Quote from: torredcuda on November 22, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
or go the other way and do this minus the numbers
Quote from: 303 Mopar on November 22, 2017, 09:20:08 AM
Quote from: torredcuda on November 22, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
or go the other way and do this minus the numbers
Now your heading my direction. I love the old school look and the more "resto-mod" look too. I agree with @Chryco Psycho (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/chryco-psycho_4) that the suspension, wheel, and brake upgrades on mine have helped it handle and perform extremely well.
Sounds like you have some decisions to make before any parts will be ordered.
Now you're talking, this is the direction I went with mine. 512 stroker, 4 speed, full hothckis/qa1 suspension, stage 3 steering box - car handles awesome and is so fun to drive. Might add team3 lt-III wheels next year to get that minilite look and bigger tires.
OK, latest idea is to go old school but more of a road racer look than the jacked up L60`s and tunnel ram. What combo of factory and aftermarket parts can I use to achieve decent handling on a budget? I`m thinking the 11.75" front rotor swap, obviously heavier torsion bars, springs and sway bars and I`ll be adding subframe connectors, spring mount reinforcements and such. I`d love to go full Hothckiss or something but budget won`t allow that, even doing it in stpes would be OK, what should I do first?
SFC are a must. I'd also include something around the engine bay - either the lower radiator yoke mount or the inner fender supports. Gusset up the steering box mount on the K frame.
Suspension wise, what do you have now? If you have a piece or three already on the car, it will minimize the cash outlay, but could dictate some different sizes of other parts. Offset upper a arm bushings or tubular arms can get extra caster. Shocks will be a fair expense if you want good ones.
Wheels, you got some torque thrusts. Ar200 and minilites were also used on TA cars. Or you could go late model and use a oval track racing wheel with d.o.t. approval.
Quote from: torredcuda on January 03, 2018, 09:44:49 AM
OK, latest idea is to go old school but more of a road racer look than the jacked up L60`s and tunnel ram. What combo of factory and aftermarket parts can I use to achieve decent handling on a budget? I`m thinking the 11.75" front rotor swap, obviously heavier torsion bars, springs and sway bars and I`ll be adding subframe connectors, spring mount reinforcements and such. I`d love to go full Hothckiss or something but budget won`t allow that, even doing it in stpes would be OK, what should I do first?
Is your car in a fully driveable state? Mine was so I kept driving it while I was buying the hotchkis parts. I couldn't buy the whole kit at once, so I waited until I caught sales and collected what I needed. I got my brand new hotchkis upper control arms for $400 off amazon, it was some flash deal that me and a few others caught on cuda-challenger. Then I dropped my k frame and put all the new stuff on all at once. Only thing I don't have is the strut rods (went with qa1) and subframe connectors (will be doing that at a later date).
I kind of went day 2 on my Challenger. The original motor was gone(383) so I kept the body and interior factory spec and then put in a 440 with all the go fast goodies I use to use back in the 60-70's. I was going with Cragers SS mags but had a brand new set of Magnum 500 I bought for my 67 GTX and thru them on to get the car running and I liked them so I kept them on--kind of look a bit like Keystones which were big on Mopars back in the 60/70's thanks to Sox and Martin. This way I can change it back to all original in a weekend if needed with a motor swap.
Do it the way that will make you happy..
JS27
I think that is a great way to modify a car. It's so much more fun to drive so you end up using it more than the traditional day 2 look. I do like the day 2 look but I like driving them more.
Engine and trans are currently out for a new clutch and 4 spd rebuild but otherwise running driving car. I have leaf springs and torsion bars out of a 383 car, not sure exact size/part numbers, factory front and rear sway bars, polyurethane bushings, cheap KYB shocks, all else stock. I know doing either offset bushings or aftermarket upper a arms will gain me caster so that is on the list. I assume next would be heavier springs and sway bars and better shocks along with the chassis reinforcements.
Very cool car... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oghaMwMT7T8
Quote from: torredcuda on January 04, 2018, 07:50:37 AM
Engine and trans are currently out for a new clutch and 4 spd rebuild but otherwise running driving car. I have leaf springs and torsion bars out of a 383 car, not sure exact size/part numbers, factory front and rear sway bars, polyurethane bushings, cheap KYB shocks, all else stock. I know doing either offset bushings or aftermarket upper a arms will gain me caster so that is on the list. I assume next would be heavier springs and sway bars and better shocks along with the chassis reinforcements.
Bigger torsion bars and sway bars made the most drastic improvements on mine. I expected it out of the sway bars but didn't realize what a huge improvement the torsion bars would make. :alan2cents:
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on January 04, 2018, 08:03:47 AM
Very cool car... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oghaMwMT7T8
He is a member over on cc.com, wonder if he found us over here yet? :iagree: It is a sweet ride!
i
Quote from: Shane Kelley on January 04, 2018, 08:21:35 AM
Quote from: torredcuda on January 04, 2018, 07:50:37 AM
Engine and trans are currently out for a new clutch and 4 spd rebuild but otherwise running driving car. I have leaf springs and torsion bars out of a 383 car, not sure exact size/part numbers, factory front and rear sway bars, polyurethane bushings, cheap KYB shocks, all else stock. I know doing either offset bushings or aftermarket upper a arms will gain me caster so that is on the list. I assume next would be heavier springs and sway bars and better shocks along with the chassis reinforcements.
Bigger torsion bars and sway bars made the most drastic improvements on mine. I expected it out of the sway bars but didn't realize what a huge improvement the torsion bars would make. :alan2cents:
What sizes/spring rates and where did you get them/what brands?
If your curious , here is what I did.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-and-steering/12/-using-c-body-spindles-on-an-e-body-and-a-body-lcas-and-viper-calipers/58/
I ended up with 1.125" torsion bars ( I have FF 1.180" but haven't installed them yet) and have 225# composite leaf springs. Tires make a HUGE difference too.
I used PST torsion bars and everything is Hotchkis except for rear leafs. They are MP and are way to soft. Hotchkis rear springs are on the to do list. Below are the torsion bars I used.
Quote from: Brads70 on January 04, 2018, 10:41:25 AM
If your curious , here is what I did.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-and-steering/12/-using-c-body-spindles-on-an-e-body-and-a-body-lcas-and-viper-calipers/58/
I ended up with 1.125" torsion bars ( I have FF 1.180" but haven't installed them yet) and have 225# composite leaf springs. Tires make a HUGE difference too.
That`s awesome and I` sure your car handles very well but too involved for me. I`ll do the connectors and other stiffeners over the next couple months. I figure get offset bushings or new upper a-arms then work on getting new leafs and torsion bars as I`m sure the 40+ yr old factory one are pretty tired, then add some new shocks and beefier sway bars.
Quote from: torredcuda on January 06, 2018, 03:54:25 AM
Quote from: Brads70 on January 04, 2018, 10:41:25 AM
If your curious , here is what I did.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-and-steering/12/-using-c-body-spindles-on-an-e-body-and-a-body-lcas-and-viper-calipers/58/
I ended up with 1.125" torsion bars ( I have FF 1.180" but haven't installed them yet) and have 225# composite leaf springs. Tires make a HUGE difference too.
That`s awesome and I` sure your car handles very well but too involved for me. I`ll do the connectors and other stiffeners over the next couple months. I figure get offset bushings or new upper a-arms then work on getting new leafs and torsion bars as I`m sure the 40+ yr old factory one are pretty tired, then add some new shocks and beefier sway bars.
I agree it's a process, took me 4-5 years to get it where I wanted it. Not many of us have the funds to do it all at once. What I am hoping by posting what I did is to help others not make the same mistakes I did. Like 4 sets of torsion bars and 3 sets of leaf springs and 3 different shocks.
Like Shane I too used the PST 1.02 bars. I personally don't like the Hotchkis arms. For the $ you get a well engineered arm -geometry- but the drawbacks include alignment hassle and the life expectancy of a heim joint on a driven street car is questionable. Best bang for the buck is the Moog offset bushings. If you really want (or need) to buy uca's, I would look at these.
https://www.qa1.net/suspension/street-performance-racing-suspension-components/control-arms/mopar-control-arms
I don't have them myself but they offer the caster advantages without the heim disadvantages. I have the offset bushings in stock uca's.
While you are there, check out their single adjustable shocks. I bought a set last year. I think they were about $600. I was in Minneapolis for a car show and picked them up from the QA1 factory.
If you are taking the fenders off, I added these, they will help your car out a lot along with the sub frame connectors.
http://store.uscartool.com/E-Body-70-74-inner-fender-brace-kit.html
I then put on 255's on the front and 315's on the back. (Dr. Diff 1.5" spring relo kit)
I don't see much advantage to changing the stock strut rods. Minute gains.
And while my car probably can't quite keep up with Brad's, it wouldn't be too far behind..lol
What do you have for leaf springs, PST doesn`t look to have much selection?
I have MP XHD rear leafs. For the light a$$ on these cars (at least with a 440 in the nose) I find the spring rate acceptable. I added a 7/8" rear sway bar which made a very noticeable difference in road manners.
15" Polished American wheels with traction bars. About as old school as you can get. :banana: :yes:
Quote from: usraptor on January 06, 2018, 06:33:29 PM
15" Polished American wheels with traction bars. About as old school as you can get. :banana: :yes:
Looks great and love the traction bars. :twothumbsup: I have the Torque Thrusts on it now but not sure I can find any decent sticky tires in 15" size.
I day2ed my orange car but much better than we could have done in the 70's. Rear sway bar, bigger front bar, bigger disc brakes etc. An extra 50 cubes wasn't something we could afford to do in the 70's either. Aluminum heads and a way better intake manifold that wasn't available back then either. I also tried the 70's headers and threw them away and put on TTi's after dragging them on speed bumps a few times too.
Quote from: torredcuda on January 03, 2018, 09:44:49 AM
OK, latest idea is to go old school but more of a road racer look than the jacked up L60`s and tunnel ram. What combo of factory and aftermarket parts can I use to achieve decent handling on a budget? I`m thinking the 11.75" front rotor swap, obviously heavier torsion bars, springs and sway bars and I`ll be adding subframe connectors, spring mount reinforcements and such. I`d love to go full Hothckiss or something but budget won`t allow that, even doing it in stpes would be OK, what should I do first?
Working with these assumptions; you have small black that will remain a small block, you want to car to remain driveable during these upgrades with no more than a weekend of downtime for an update, and you want to progessively improve it on a budget, you want to to feel and perform better without necessarily being a autocross racer. I'm also purposely leaving wheels and tires out of this equation. They would actually be the first thing I settled on. If you sticking with 15" tires, this does become a challenge and will be a big influence on budget. Really good street 15" tires don't really exist and you may find yourself running a somewhat lesser tire or a d.o.t. racing tire. Your goals for end product and budget along the way are prime considerations.
First, chassis reinforcement. Add SFC or torque boxes and some front end reinforcement. Without a solid foundation, improvements are spitting in the wind. These can cost $20 in materials if you build and install your own to many hundreds if you buy complete packages and have them installed. Firming up the uni-body will allow even the parts you have now to work better together. I'd hold off on spring reinforcement plates, control arm gussets, shock mounts or other doo-dads until later as they add little to this equation.
Second, offset upper control arm bushings and a radial friendly alignment. A big drawback of the stock mopar suspension is the lack of positive caster and the interrelationship of caster to camber and how one is compromised for the other. $400 control arms accomplish this too, but, we are talking budget here. Offset bushings are less than $50. They don't give the range that new arms do, so to offset this, you also install .125" hardened washers between the lower ball joint and spindle. This increases negative camber so you can dial in as much positive caster as possible with the bushings. The alignment, careful selection of a shop is required here. They MUST be willing to work with you on custom settings and not use the OEM settings.The settings you want will be as much positive caster as possible, up to around 7*, negative camber not to exceed -1* and approximately .125" negative toe or toe in. For a basic 26" tall tire, I think this is around -.5*
Those two changes are the foundation of improvement that all cars should have, even if they are a stock restoration, IMO. You may find your car so improved you may or may not want to purse further changes depending on personal preference and ultimate goal. These changes are so good, you could still go with an old school street racer look and have an enjoyable car that is safe to drive. Also, from this point forward, you start running into incremental compromises as you upgrade pieces individually that aren't matched to each other. Eventually it all comes together in the end.
Next, shocks with an eye towards the future suspension rates. Install and forget it shocks would be the RCD Bilsteins. At $450+ this is not a cheap upgrade, but will be a significant upgrade. If you prefer to tinker a bit, single adjustables can give you a range of options to explore so you can change settings for more comfort,performance, and use to different environments (street/drag/handling). If you are OCD and can keep great notes, then a double adjustable shock may be the ticket. I say this because the many hundreds of combinations of compression and rebound possible in a double adjustable shock means you can easily and quickly end up in the wrong end of the spectrum and produce a worse handling car if you don't recall where you started.
After that, front sway bar. A 1.125" solid unit can be had fairly inexpensively found from Addco, Sway Away, Summit or numerous other providers for around $150. The 1.25" hollow bar Hotchkis is trick and gives a high rate with lightweight, but will be easily 2x+ in cost at $350+. Pick your budget here. This will produce a car that somewhat understeers because of the big step up in rate compared to the stock sized (.890 or something) bar you are replacing. Leave your stock rear bar in place.
Next step depends on if you want your car to understeer severely of oversteer somewhat and they should probably be done together or one as soon after the other as possible. If understeering severely is okay then find a 1.06-1.10 torsion bar. If oversteer them step up to a Mopar XHD leaf or equivilent. These will be around 140# in rate. These two pieces will finally balance out the car and finalize the overall build. T-bars can be found through Hotchkis, Firm Feel, and a few others. They are pricey at $300+ in most places. Sometimes you can luck out and find old stock MP bars for a couple hundred or someone upgrading who will let them go cheap. You can disconnect your rear sway bar to restore a bit of balance if you need to wait on the leaf upgrade.
Leafs will run $200-500 depending on source and how custom rate you decide to go with. Firm Feel will custom build rates and there are a host of oval track suppliers who have some big rates too. However, be aware if you get a reproduction Mopar Oval Track spring, they require new front hangers because of a difference in front segment length. Stock style, XHD, and Hotchkis do not have this concern.
So there you go. My opinion on your set up in a nutshell.
Great info! Your assumptions are pretty right on althougI think I will eventually upgrade to 17" wheels and tires when the budget allows, I`ll kep an eye out for a used set I can maybe afford and sell the 15`s to recoup some cash. I guess the interior is coming out and the welding can commence. Fortunatley I have the skills to everything myself so I don`t have to pay a shop. I`ll get the offset bushings ordered up also.
Did the first step finally, ordered UScar tool sub frame connectors, I`ll make my own torque box reinforcements and a few other pieces as I work in a sheet metal shop.
If it was me, I'd leave it as stock looking as I could and build the engine, transmission and rear end.
Quote from: torredcuda on May 06, 2018, 02:03:34 PM
Did the first step finally, ordered UScar tool sub frame connectors, I`ll make my own torque box reinforcements and a few other pieces as I work in a sheet metal shop.
Good call! I installed the USCT SFC's, torque boxes and frt inr apron reinforcements and the car is quite a bit stiffer than when new. I know everybody recommends the over 1" TB's but I bought a set of .960" ers I think they were, from Mopar and my trade price was less than $200 and the car handles well. Mine is a street car only and if you were to race it, then go another way. I think you'll be happy with the way the car drives when you're done. Also, if you haven't already, the Firm Feel stage 3 rebuild will give you a near new car feel through the wheel. Good luck! :cheers: