WARNING RE-BODIED FAKE V CODE 1970 CUDA ON THE MARKET!! THERE HAS BEEN MUCH CONTROVERSY REGARDING THIS CAR. HERE ARE A FEW THREADS/ LINKS I FOUND ON THIS WEB SITE
https://forum.e-bodies.org/vin-fender-tag-build-sheet-and-date-codes/13/help-vehicle-order-number-on-fender-tag-does-not-von-on-match-build-sheet/11420/15
https://forum.e-bodies.org/e-body-stuff-found-on-ebay-craigslist-or-anywhere-else/20/70-v-code-cuda-denver-dollar75k/2758/
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/159582-car-ad-with-bogus-tag-jpg.1715281870/
https://forum.e-bodies.org/cars-for-sale-or-wanted/8/70-cuda-v-code/9390/
vin number- BS23V0B159582
location Montnana
:madashell: I recently purchased a 1970 cuda. After I bought it, I found out the seller had re-bodied the car and re-stamped the vin number on the cowl and radiator support as well as changed dash vin and made a repro fender tag. The seller was claiming the Cuda was a 10000 mile og car, A dealer demo car that he owned since the late 70's, purchased form the og owner. All that ended up being a lie. Its very concerning because the seller has a good reputation in the Mopar community, is well known, and actually built a black four speed 69 Charger 500 Hemi car that won Mopar Nationals.
The seller took a wrecked or pieces of a 1970 v code Cuda (BS23V0B159582) and put them on a donor body;
original motor with 159582 vin number stamped
copy of the build sheet
the dash with vin plate
re-stamped cowl and rad support
added torque boxes, and front skid plate on K member
shaker hood, rear axle
title from the v code Cuda
ect ect.
Truth be told it was a good attempt to mislead buyers. If I would have found not found the picture of the vin re-stamping in the center console I would HAVE NEVER KNOWN.
After I got the car back home to Olympia I was going through the car cleaning it and found A PICTURE OF THE VIN RE-STAMPING in the center console along with a second duplicate title for the car. After reviewing the photo copied picture (SEE BELOW) I was shocked. The picture clearly showed the vin number being re-stamped on the cowl. (THE SELLER FORGOT TO REMOVE THE PICTURE OF THE VIN NUMBER RE-STAMPING OUT OF THE CENTER CONSOLE)
I called him later that night and told him I found a second title for the Cuda, he was surprised and replied that he had couldn't find the title and had to apply for a lost title in 2018.
I then asked him about the picture of the cowl vin re-stamping and he got very quite. He eventually admitted to having the Cuda sent "back east" to have the cowl and radiator support vin numbers re-stamped. I was very disappointed.... I told him I want to return the car and wanted a full refund, to my surprise he agreed. I drove down a few days later and returned the car. Although he seemed very apologetic he was still not being completely forth worth with what happened and his story kept changing... Im guessing he was trying to save face and was very concerned about his reputation in the Mopar community being affected by this as he is well known and has sold many cars over the years.
I am thankful he agreed to refund my money ($57,000) and half of my traveling costs of having to drive to Montana twice in a week (over 2500 miles). It would have been nice if he refunded all my costs but nether the less am grateful I got a full refund for the car. I feel I dodged a bullet. This experience has made me realize that this is most likely not a isolated event with the seller. I am not a Mopar expert, nor do I claim to be, but when a seller takes a build sheet, title, og motor numbers matching to the title, the dash/vin, axle, and all other parts and puts them on a donor body, it makes it difficult to know that the car is a fake re-bodied car, NOT TO MENTION HAVING THE COWL AND RAD SUPPORT NUMBERS RE-STAMPED.
There are so many things the seller intentionally did that were unethical and fraudulent. Its a shame that someone would use there good reputation to mislead people and sell fake cars. Not to mention its ILLEGAL to re-stamp vin numbers and change vin plates. The seller is a retired law enforcement officer and even gave us the phone number to a certain person who is one of the stars on Grave Yard Carz to vouch for the car. The person from GYC unknowingly vouched for a fake car, it was not his fault, I will not disclose his name out of respect. It is a shame that some one who has a good standing in the Mopar community would use other people good name to sell his fake car
I want to get the word out about this car to prevent this from happening to some one else. Its one thing to sell a re-bodied car and claim it as such, its another to sell a re-bodied car and claim its a 100% original (restored) car for top market value.
My goal of this posting IS NOT TO BASH THE SELLER, I DO HOWEVER WANT TO POST THIS SO HOPEFULLY THE NEXT PERSON INTERESTED IN BUYING THIS CAR KNOWS WHAT IT IS AS THE SELLER IS ACTIVELY STILL TRYING TO SELL THE CAR.
any help in spreading the word on other web sites/threads about this 1970 Plymouth Cuda vin number BS23V0B159582 would be greatly appreciated.
I am still in the market for a 1970-1971 V code Cuda manual or auto, or a AAR/TA challenger manual in with around 500 miles of Oregon/Wahington state
better pict of bs
The truth finally comes out!
Good on you for getting your cash back. Surprising really.
I was surprised I got my money back as well. He did the right thing by giving me back my money.
This kind of stuff goes on all the time :alan2cents: :tired: Sorry you didn't do more research and find out the truth before buying it. :console:
Still a real nice car for $57K :lookatthat: , somebody who doesn't care about all this "numbers" stuff will buy it and be happy. :burnout:
Thanks for posting, glad it ended okay for you. Still a bunch of stress.
The car in the pictures and at first glance looks good but there are several issues with the car including rust bubbles on the rear lower quarter panels/door corners, and a amateur paint and body work, over spray all over the vinyl top. I bought the car anyways with the thought it was real and I could correct the paint, body issues.
The seller did not disclose any of those issues in the ad or over the phone.
Pretty much explains why the car has been on the market for so long
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Plymouth-Barracuda-/233214540382?hash=item364cab7a5e%3Ag%3A2tYAAOSwjpxcyg-e&nma=true&si=%252FIl9c8HM84l1%252FRO5otFxk7qvSN8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
vin number BS23V0B159582
The reason you got your money back, in my opinion was you had proof he committed a felony. And being it crossed state lines the FBI could get involved. Did he want the pictures back as well? For being former law enforcement, he pulled a rookie mistake, and should have known better to do in the first place. :alan2cents:
Yes he wanted the picture back, I did however take a copy for my records however.
Sorry to hear about your troubles but glad you were able to re coup your money. It is sad that this happens. It is a problem when the mopar experts who know how to make it correct so nobody ever knows get involved in this stuff. The old saying " BUYER BEWARE" hold true.
JS27
THIS IS WHY RUSTED UNREPAIRABLE PILES O SHIT SELL FOR SO MUCH.
SOMEBODY HAS A RUST FREE 6 CYLINDER BODY IN WAITING.
I agree...
Quote from: plum crazy rt on June 18, 2019, 07:54:35 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Plymouth-Barracuda-/233214540382?hash=item364cab7a5e%3Ag%3A2tYAAOSwjpxcyg-e&nma=true&si=%252FIl9c8HM84l1%252FRO5otFxk7qvSN8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
vin number BS23V0B159582
This is no longer available, wonder if it sold again or he pulled it.
SOOOOOOOOOOOO......where back east was the car sent to have cowl and support re stamped?
inquiring minds want to know who the crooks are......
care to post a picture of the re stamp?
Quote from: scf100 on June 20, 2019, 09:44:45 AM
SOOOOOOOOOOOO......where back east was the car sent to have cowl and support re stamped?
inquiring minds want to know who the crooks are......
care to post a picture of the re stamp?
He did post a picture of the re-stamp (page 1)....I certainly wouldn't want to use whoever did it, because they did a terrible job :alan2cents:
I'm really sorry to hear you had to go thru all that trouble. I know it happens but it still stinks. The car looks nice so for someone who doesn't care and wants a nice car/driver then that is for them.
I dont know who did the re-stamp, I just know the guy I bought it from sent it east to have done as he admitted doing it.
I met a guy in the Chicago area back in about 1980 that was doing rebodies of Hemi cars and making a killing. Been going on for 40 years or so just on E-bodies. I wonder how many of the remaining E-bodies have been rebodied?
Thanks for sharing your story
@plum crazy rt (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/plum-crazy-rt_4447)!
I seen this car on carsonline.com it has been on there for ages . When he said he sent it back east for restamping did he mean here? http://www.datatags.com/ here it is on carsonline.com
https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/89876 I thought about this car briefly and another black one with a non matching engine for @50k I think it was In Violet originally (if I remember right) but I ended up buying a project EV2, Dana 4.10, Torqueflite car for 30k seller sent a repop fender tag and kept the original one I seen photos of it and the repop looks identical do you think it will be ok? I kept hassling him for it but he keeps bullshitting me. I am glad I didn't get this car it would have been a drama to try and return it from Australia given the shipping costs and timeframes.
Quote from: aussiemark on June 21, 2019, 04:10:51 AM
I seen this car on carsonline.com it has been on there for ages . When he said he sent it back east for restamping did he mean here? http://www.datatags.com/ here it is on carsonline.com
https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/89876
AG Backeast could have made the fender tag, but I seriously doubt they "re-stamped" the cowl and rad support.
Quote from: aussiemark on June 21, 2019, 04:10:51 AM
I seen this car on carsonline.com it has been on there for ages . When he said he sent it back east for restamping did he mean here? http://www.datatags.com/ here it is on carsonline.com
https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/89876
The first major
RED FLAG is clearly printed in that Cars on Line ad.
A number's matching 440+6 shaker hood Cuda with front rubber bumper and low miles....ALL FOR $65K......yea right people...if it "sounds to good to be true....it usually is" :looney:
Maybe someone should show this crap to Barry Washington and get it black flagged.
I dont know who re-stamped the cowl and rad support. all he said was from some one back east. The car also has a mistake on the fender tag, the VON is one digit off from the VON on the build sheet, so the fake fender tag was wrong as well...
Im just glad he refunded my money with out much hassle.
Would it be possible to have Barry black fag the car? I dont know Barry.
This car in my opinion would fit the criteria.
Quote from: plum crazy rt on June 23, 2019, 11:32:42 AM
Would it be possible to have Barry black fag the car? I dont know Barry.
This car in my opinion would fit the criteria.
Barry flagging the car means NOTHING......You've done enough by posting the VIN number and the photos that you've personally seen.
Getting it on the black flag list isn't a bad thing at least it gives another avenue for potential buyers (victims) to check before getting involved with it, especially helpful if an international buyer is interested. This looks fairly shady it's being talked about on another forum.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MOPAR-1970-CHALLENGER-R-T-FENDER-TAGS/264365233399
Quote from: aussiemark on June 24, 2019, 02:34:23 AM
Getting it on the black flag list isn't a bad thing at least it gives another avenue for potential buyers (victims) to check before getting involved with it, especially helpful if an international buyer is interested. This looks fairly shady it's being talked about on another forum.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MOPAR-1970-CHALLENGER-R-T-FENDER-TAGS/264365233399
That would be a nice colour combo when built. :drooling:
BUYER BEWARE! THE SELLER OF THE FAKE REBODIED CUDA JUST POSTED THIS ROAD RUNNER FOR SALE! WHEN I BOUGHT THE CUDA HE TOLD ME THE ROAD RUNNER WAS ORIGINALY BLACK, THEN CHANGED HIS STORY TO GOLD. BE WARE OF THIS CAR! CHECK THE VINS CLOSELY AND READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE CONSIDERING BUYING THIS CAR!
THE VIN NUMBER IS RM23H8A220640
HERE IS THE LINK TO THE CRAIGS LIST AD
https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/d/darby-1968-plymouth-road-runner/7030408900.html
unfortunately there s a lot of rebodied hemi, Vcode cars out there. the guy i know who has been doing this for years too, get the first buyer, when the car is coming out off resto, to sign a letter where he understand he's buying a car that's been rebodied , usely 20% cheaper than the market value of an original body, problem is when this first owner is selling the car after and not telling nothing,not giving the letter to the next buyer ...Well like for a shelby ,i would not buy that kind of car with out getting a specialist inspecting the car with me.
:thinking: My first thought is, the back east thing....is that more a ploy to take some of the heat off himself? Did I read former law enforcement? :unbelievable: Cant help but think there are others out there. Some possibly owned by members here. When BIG $$$ gets involved there are people who will go thru great lengths..... :popcorn:
This car is going across the auction block at Mecum Kissimmee shortly.......lot F293. Will post price when its done. Hit Mecum Kissimmee on You Tube if you want to watch it yourself.
SOLD @ $76k
:huh:
Definitely the same Cuda
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0120-397205/1970-plymouth-cuda/
Buyer beware at the auctions!
Ya its crazy how greedy people can be. The owner who sold the car was a retired law enforcement officer. With fees the person who bought the Cuda paid top dollar thinking it was a real cuda.. I feel bad when he finds out that its a fake. When I bought the car for 54k I was shocked and very disappointed when I discovered the car was fake, I can only imagine how the new owner will feel when he finds out its not a real car.
Im going to contact Mecum Monday morning and let them know, not that it will probably do any good...
auction results show it sold for $83,600 (not including fees). Maybe if several members were to contact Mecum, they may do some thing about it. All relevant info is on this thread.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0120-397205/1970-plymouth-cuda/
Some people just buy cars because they "look cool", not every buyer is crazy about the "numbers thing" .
Yea the car was rebodied at one time and was likely not represented as such, but maybe the buyer was just looking for a cool looking car to drive...who knows....It's not the first rebodied car to be sold, at auction, or privately :alan2cents: :dunno:
There's an ass for every seat. ;)
just because it has been done before doesn't make it right -
if you can't be honest about a car you are selling - there is a PROBLEM :angry:
an auction is the perfect place to sell a car you don't want to answer the hard questions about face-to-face
$76,000 hammer price
+ 7,600 10% commission
$83,600 = listed sale price
Has anyone contacted the auctions website?
anlauto YOU SOUND LIKE A REAL BUT WIPE! If you know its a rebodied car and advertised as such is one thing. To pay top dollar for what you think is a real car is nothing short of fraud.
You spend 80k+ on a mopar you think is real then find out its not, maybe then you will see that it is WRONG!
I attempted to contact Mecum today after I discovered the car went live but got a answering machine. I will follow up Monday.
the more people to contact Mecum the better. Several voices are heard better than just one.
Quote from: plum crazy rt on December 01, 2019, 05:50:31 PM
BUYER BEWARE! THE SELLER OF THE FAKE REBODIED CUDA JUST POSTED THIS ROAD RUNNER FOR SALE! WHEN I BOUGHT THE CUDA HE TOLD ME THE ROAD RUNNER WAS ORIGINALY BLACK, THEN CHANGED HIS STORY TO GOLD. BE WARE OF THIS CAR! CHECK THE VINS CLOSELY AND READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE CONSIDERING BUYING THIS CAR!
THE VIN NUMBER IS RM23H8A220640
HERE IS THE LINK TO THE CRAIGS LIST AD
https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/d/darby-1968-plymouth-road-runner/7030408900.html
Sadly 68 VINs don't work that way. The VIN is on the dash. The body and fender tag reflect the SO number. Only the broadcast sheet and window sticker tie the two together.
Quote from: plum crazy rt on January 10, 2020, 08:19:07 PM
anlauto YOU SOUND LIKE A REAL BUT WIPE! If you know its a rebodied car and advertised as such is one thing. To pay top dollar for what you think is a real car is nothing short of fraud.
You spend 80k+ on a mopar you think is real then find out its not, maybe then you will see that it is WRONG!
I attempted to contact Mecum today after I discovered the car went live but got a answering machine. I will follow up Monday.
the more people to contact Mecum the better. Several voices are heard better than just one.
:ohyeah:
Quote from: plum crazy rt on January 10, 2020, 08:19:07 PM
anlauto YOU SOUND LIKE A REAL BUT WIPE! If you know its a rebodied car and advertised as such is one thing. To pay top dollar for what you think is a real car is nothing short of fraud.
You spend 80k+ on a mopar you think is real then find out its not, maybe then you will see that it is WRONG!
I attempted to contact Mecum today after I discovered the car went live but got a answering machine. I will follow up Monday.
the more people to contact Mecum the better. Several voices are heard better than just one.
Name calling is great, welcome to the site :grouphug: :looney:
Unless you know the seller and the buyer personally and have direct knowledge of what they were thinking when they bought the car or how much they knew when they sold the car, your opinion of the car doesn't really matter. Mecum also has a disclosure stating that they are selling the car based on information provided by the seller, not by you. Do we know if the guy who sold it at Mecum is the same guy that sold it to you ?
It's quite possible the seller believed the car was legit when he bought it, as you did, so he sold it the same way...and it's very possible the new owner is happy as can be buying a cool looking car...
Do you ever wonder why nice clones or modified cars go for good money....it's because there is a huge buying market out there of people with money who don't care whatsoever about this numbers stuff... :alan2cents:
80K is all the money for a 70 cuda V code automatic, so I doubt very much the buyer knew about the rebody issues on the car. And seeing how the Mecum listing shows the same underside picture that was shown in the car's online listing, I bet the same seller consigned it to the auction.
It's most likely illegal, at best it's unethical to sell this car. But sadly based on this case the buyer might be screwed and Dana won't make things right-
https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20170403c31
There was a hemi cuda with issues sold at Mecum a few years ago that he did buy back, and later I saw it at another of his auctions with the VIN and tags removed being sold as bill of sale only. Mecum had a falling out with Galen Govier and barred Galen from his auctions afterwards after Galen outed a rebodied or fake car at a Mecum auction. Not sure if that vin removed hemi cuda was the same car that caused the fallout? I doubt they want cars with sketchy histories in the auctions, but when it happens, it doesn't look like they will make things "right". :thumbdown:
I agree, but we don't know the details. I would hope anybody willing to spend $80K on a car would do a little investigation....A simple Google search of the VIN would tell the whole story. :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on January 11, 2020, 04:59:33 AM
Quote from: plum crazy rt on January 10, 2020, 08:19:07 PM
anlauto YOU SOUND LIKE A REAL BUT WIPE! If you know its a re-bodied car and advertised as such is one thing. To pay top dollar for what you think is a real car is nothing short of fraud.
You spend 80k+ on a mopar you think is real then find out its not, maybe then you will see that it is WRONG!
I attempted to contact Mecum today after I discovered the car went live but got a answering machine. I will follow up Monday.
the more people to contact Mecum the better. Several voices are heard better than just one.
Name calling is great, welcome to the site :grouphug: :looney:
Unless you know the seller and the buyer personally and have direct knowledge of what they were thinking when they bought the car or how much they knew when they sold the car, your opinion of the car doesn't really matter. Mecum also has a disclosure stating that they are selling the car based on information provided by the seller, not by you. Do we know if the guy who sold it at Mecum is the same guy that sold it to you ?
It's quite possible the seller believed the car was legit when he bought it, as you did, so he sold it the same way...and it's very possible the new owner is happy as can be buying a cool looking car...
Do you ever wonder why nice clones or modified cars go for good money....it's because there is a huge buying market out there of people with money who don't care whatsoever about this numbers stuff... :alan2cents:
It's amazing how you "sugar coat" everything and put the blame everywhere else. :drunk: :drunk: You have been a proponent of re-bodies ever since you had someone else replace 90% of the sheet metal on the "barrel Cuda" and posted it on the internet bragging about it. Do you have any clue the law here in the US? If you represent a car as legit and it's not, the punitive damages are 3x the purchase price. That's exactly why Barrett Jackson contracts a "real" MOPAR expert to inspect every MOPAR before any auction.
So, go ahead Alan, I'm sure you have a rational response that makes total sense to you. :crying:
UPDATE- I contacted Mecum today and talked to a person at there resolution department.
Mecum was NOT AWARE of the back history on the 1970 Cuda vin number BS23V0B159582 that had the vin numbers illegally re-stamped, there fore neither was the winning bidder.
The representative at Mecum assured me that they are going to look into and investigate the vin number discrepancy. The Mecum representative was additament that from there position this is bad business and they are going to look into having the car pulled.
I will keep everyone updated as events transpire. I only hope that they do the right thing.
see this thread for the complete back story.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/cuda-and-challenger-general-discussion-roseville-moparts/2/warning-re-bodied-fake-v-code-1970-cuda-on-the-market-vin-number-bs23v0b159582/11780/
Good job. No one wants a fake car for real money.
Thanks for your effort exposing this car's issues. If info on all fake and rebodied cars was posted enough on the internet, maybe the people that try to profit off doing this would find they couldn't get away with it and stop!
PICTURE OF THE TITLE WHEN I BOUGHT THE CAR AS WELL AS VIN RE-STAMP
Fraud.
Hope the cosigner gets hit with a felony :fingerscrossed: I read through the advertisement and it did not indicate anything but a real deal V code cuda. :foul:
Quote from: JH27N0B on January 11, 2020, 07:05:46 AM
80K is all the money for a 70 cuda V code automatic, so I doubt very much the buyer knew about the rebody issues on the car.
I know of a 70 V code automatic that sold for 105K, however that car was near perfect. Not a hack like this car.
UPDATE!!
I JUST RECIEVED CONFIRMATION FROM MECUM THAT THEY PULLED THE CAR!
The winning bidder/buyer had no idea that the car was a fake! As you can imagine the buyer was very relieved that I contacted Mecum.
Im so happy to hear that Mecum did the right thing and pulled the Cuda with out hesitation.
Because the seller is so dishonest, I will reach out to Barret Jackson incase he tries them next.
My work here is done, for now... What a long time consuming and endeavor this has been.
Hopefully any body else thinking of trying to pass off a fake re vin numbered car will think twice after reading this entire thread!
IF ANY BODY SEES THIS CAR COME UP FOR SALE/AUCTION IN THE FUTURE PLEASE CONTACT ME OR SIMPLY REPLY TO THIS THREAD!
:cool: :twothumbsup:Good job.
Yes good work! :foul: As far as Barret Jackson goes they are likely worse than Mecum when it comes to selling rebodied cars. Remember the 1971 FC7 Hemi Cuda convertible they sold in 2013 for 1.2 million. The restorer started with nothing more than a firewall! :o He did however find the original motor and bill of sale. The whole Mopar internet community was talking about this rebodied car for months prior to the auction, yet Barret Jackson never mentioned any of this when they sold the car??
I did an Internet search of this cudas VIN and found something about it being scheduled for one of the Arizona auctions back in 2018.
:clapping: nicely done!
Nice work. You did the right thing. :bigthumb:
Mission accomplished :twothumbsup:
That's awesome! :bigthumb: :bigthumb:
Did I miss who the well known mopar guy was that originally did all of this mentioned on the first page or was that not public?
a screen shot of the titled owner on one of those "people finder sites" :stop: occupation: BODY SHOP principal :unbelievable:
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/1969-dodge-charger-r-t-440-4-speed-3-54-dana-60-real-r-t-non-numbers-matching-but-correct-cast-da.181425/
he's also the former owner of this '69 R/T Charger for sale in PA
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/1969-dodge-charger-500-4spd-hemi-black.53815/
& had a 12K mile HEMI 4-speed Charger 500 for sale back in 2012
Plum Crazy RT, I am glad you were able to recover your funds and bring attention to what the car actually is. Its still a cool car that I would be happy to own but it must be priced accordingly and disclosed to any potential buyer.
One thing from all this that I do not understand is the re-stamped cowl and radiator support. In the picture of the radiator support it is clear even to a novice that it was re-stamped and should have raised some suspicion?
Was this over looked when you purchased the car or did the seller have a convincing explanation for the re-stamp?
Quote from: plum crazy rt on January 14, 2020, 02:55:13 PM
@redgum78 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/redgum78_789) . You need to read the entire thread. The picture of the vin restamp is a photograph I found inside the car after I purchased it.. please read entire thread............
Hey mate, firstly please don't take my comment the wrong way, I am so glad you recovered your money and commend you on raising this and following up with the auction house.
I did read the whole thread, it was lengthy and I possibly misunderstood some aspects of it so this is just me trying to understand.
In the picture you found its pretty clear that the numbers were re-stamped. Sounds like the re-stamp was not as obvious on the vehicle as it was on the photo?
Yup: I've dealt with a few upstanding members of the Mopar community that I won't deal with again.
Is this the same tweetie bird?
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/d/boulder-city-70-code-6-pack-cuda/7056623122.html
YES! that is the same car. The seller is still not disclosing that the vin number has been changed even after I had the car pulled form Mecum!
This guy is a piece of work..
I am going to post a waring on CL.
Thanks For the heads up
@GrandpaKevin (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/grandpakevin_594) !
Is this the same guy that sold it to you for $57K ? Just wondering now why he would ask $85K ? OR has it changed hands since you returned it ?
I guess it does sound like it could be the same guy you dealt with. :console:
Don't really understand why he just doesn't advertise it as a rebody, adjust the price and cut his losses and move along...it's been brought to his attention enough times now. :headbang:
With a much lower price he would likely sell the car to someone who doesn't care about the numbers. :dunno:
Quote from: anlauto on January 23, 2020, 07:21:11 PM
I guess it does sound like it could be the same guy you dealt with. :console:
Don't really understand why he just doesn't advertise it as a rebody, adjust the price and cut his losses and move along...it's been brought to his attention enough times now. :headbang:
With a much lower price he would likely sell the car to someone who doesn't care about the numbers. :dunno:
Yes exactly . . That would be the thing to do . .
Again, Good job plum crazy rt. :handshake:
Quote from: anlauto on January 23, 2020, 07:21:11 PM
Don't really understand why he just doesn't advertise it as a rebody, adjust the price and cut his losses and move along...it's been brought to his attention enough times now. :headbang:
Maybe because it's a federal offense... :thinking:
Quote from: 318Stroker on January 24, 2020, 07:12:00 AM
Quote from: anlauto on January 23, 2020, 07:21:11 PM
Don't really understand why he just doesn't advertise it as a rebody, adjust the price and cut his losses and move along...it's been brought to his attention enough times now. :headbang:
Maybe because it's a federal offense... :thinking:
You're likely 100% correct, but I doubt it's a case that would ever be prosecuted...All the accused felon would have to do is grind off the cowl and rad support numbers so they were blank....and there goes any proof unfortunately :'(
The car is just a car....someone will buy it...
This vehicle should be impounded have the VIN and fender tags removed and destroyed and have a tag with a reissued VIN that looks nothing like an original tag fitted to the dash so anyone can tell it is not a genuine car and never will be. This way anyone who doesn't care about numbers can get a cool looking car at a realistic price without any confusion, personally I would prefer an original 318 base model with it's original tags then this flight of fantasy. I have never trusted cops retired or still working they are the biggest lying pieces of shit out there I have personally witnessed them standing up in court after putting their hand on a bible and swearing an oath then lying like you wouldn't believe, trust NOBODY especially cops.
Karma has a way of possibly having the car stolen from him and the car being parted out.
Otherwise this guy will never change his nefarious ways.....
***** if stolen he will collect the insurance
***** or he will use it for collateral on a loan, then default on it & it will become a bank's problem
because it is a rare valuable collectable vintage automobile :bigmoney: NOT any more!! :pullinghair:
I just had a close call with this fake E bodied car. The seller was in Grand Junction, Colorado, asking $70,000 fo the car. I hired an inspection company to check it out and they came back to me that it is a fake Cuda and had been re-bodied. Saved me a nightmare.
Car is currently on EBAY.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Plymouth-Barracuda/143620285543
Quote from: Hemiicoronet on June 05, 2020, 02:15:18 PM
I just had a close call with this fake E bodied car. The seller was in Grand Junction, Colorado, asking $70,000 fo the car. I hired an inspection company to check it out and they came back to me that it is a fake Cuda and had been re-bodied. Saved me a nightmare.
Car is currently on EBAY.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Plymouth-Barracuda/143620285543
and this is why it is important for us to continue posting these types of vehicles, so that potential buyers can be aware with a basic VIN search. If a buyer is OK with it, great. but for those wanting a no-qualms vehicle, this will be a great warning.
Quote from: 318Stroker on January 24, 2020, 07:12:00 AM
Quote from: anlauto on January 23, 2020, 07:21:11 PM
Don't really understand why he just doesn't advertise it as a rebody, adjust the price and cut his losses and move along...it's been brought to his attention enough times now. :headbang:
Maybe because it's a federal offense... :thinking:
Can somebody please explain why they think that this is a federal offense?
Are you citing:
18 U.S. Code § 511.Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers.
a)A person who—
(1)knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part;
Are you claiming that he was "altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers?"
If so, then you CANNOT ignore, 18 USC 511, section b.
(b)
(1)Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
It is important to remember that 18 USC 511 governs THEFT. Taking parts from legally owned cars to make a fake is not theft. Selling this car without disclosure is FRAUD.
The problem with Fraud is the victim needs to be aware that he has been ripped off. All too often, the victim finds out too late.
So a big "thank you" for posting the history on the car, and all the more important to keep a registry when this crap is discovered. But don't expect law enforcement to do anything. We are a community, and we will need to rely on each other. (As a Sunbeam Tiger owner, I get to see a lot of it.)
For fun I emailed the seller and shamed his false advertisement.
Well done as he replied ? :thumbdown:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165204470459?hash=item2676f42abb:g:mOkAAOSwqIRhmdH4
Quote from: Challenger in NC on December 08, 2021, 06:17:07 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165204470459?hash=item2676f42abb:g:mOkAAOSwqIRhmdH4
I just sent the eBay seller the picture of the vin number stamped over the old vin number..
The greatest mistake the scammer ever did was accidentally upload that picture :haha:
Disclaimer from ad, "Not our fault........"
This vehicle is "For Sale by Owner," displayed at Gateway Classic Cars, who is acting only as a Sales Agent. The Company is not making any representations as to the condition and/or the value of this vehicle. Gateway Classic Cars has not checked the condition (mechanical or structural), mileage or authenticity of this vehicle and is relying on the information provided by the seller. The company is not responsible for omissions and/or errors in advertising this vehicle and the buyer shall hold the Company harmless from all future claims arising from any representations made by the Seller. All vehicles are sold on an AS-IS, WHERE-IS basis.
Quote from: Katfish on December 09, 2021, 07:28:19 PM
Disclaimer from ad, "Not our fault........"
This vehicle is "For Sale by Owner," displayed at Gateway Classic Cars, who is acting only as a Sales Agent. The Company is not making any representations as to the condition and/or the value of this vehicle. Gateway Classic Cars has not checked the condition (mechanical or structural), mileage or authenticity of this vehicle and is relying on the information provided by the seller. The company is not responsible for omissions and/or errors in advertising this vehicle and the buyer shall hold the Company harmless from all future claims arising from any representations made by the Seller. All vehicles are sold on an AS-IS, WHERE-IS basis.
That doesn't absolve them from liability.
I reported it on ebay but I doubt it will do any good. They don't give you options to explain what's wrong....
I just sent Gateway Classics a nasty-gram about it. So if anyone buys the car and finds this thread after the fact, Gateway has 100% been notified that the car is a rebody and a fraud. I think Gateway needs to feel some heat about this, their boiler plate garbage reply is total BS.
I can add what I know about this car prior to the above mentioned Mecum auction the car went through.
A friend of mine bought this car from a broker in Denver.
He sent me photos of his new car. I thought man I hope it is not the car that started this thread. Well, it was!
I sent him the link to this thread and he was shocked.
He went into denial for a few days, but then had to face the facts.
He contacted the broker that sold him the car and demanded he take the car back and return his $.
Of course the broker denied any knowledge of the issues with the car and promised to make it right. The problem was somehow he no longer had the $ to refund my friend.
The broker took the car back and promised to return the $ shortly. Shortly after that the car turned up at the said Mecum auction.
We know how that turned out.
My friend continued to press the broker for his funds.
The broker and my friend finally struck a deal, broker gave him 2 different cars for compensation. My friend ended up selling these 2 cars and actually recovered the majority of the $ he paid for the Cuda.
He was lucky in my opinion
What a mess!
Not sure what happened to the car after that.....
Now for sale at Gateway.
I think we all know the take away here is if your going to make a major purchase on a high profile E body. Seek guidance here on this site. There are a lot of great guys on here with a wealth of knowledge willing to help.
Great Site!
Regardless of this cars sorted history, if priced right, I'm sure someone would buy it and just enjoy it.. :stayinlane:
It should be parted out.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on December 18, 2021, 08:37:21 AM
It should be parted out.
You say that about
ALL automatics :looney: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: