I wonder if this even has a broadcast sheet or data tag to back it up.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Plymouth-Barracuda-CUDA-2-DR-/162447406615?hash=item25d29eb617:g:k0QAAOSwXYtY2cHT&vxp=mtr
What does it mean that it is a pilot car? :huh:
Poor use of nomenclature.
A pilot car is something that leads for example a "Large Load" tractor type rig.
A "pilot" car also refers to a pre production car built by the factory at the beginning of a model year.
A good friend of mine used to own a 92 IROC Daytona pilot car. It had a plate in the engine compartment that said PVP PILOT.
They used that term often then for pre production launch vehicle. may have gone to lynch road as an executive vehicle of a first to be sold of to a dealer.
not #s matching, interesting car for sure though
interesting to know if there is a fender tag, or any paper work to valid
Quote from: MoparDave on March 30, 2017, 04:04:21 PM
interesting to know if there is a fender tag, or any paper work to valid
and if the body #s match. too much information lacking for a potential high dollar car, doesn't make sense. if the seller wanted top dollar there would be pics of tags, BC, cowl #, rad #, door ... anything. but there is nothing but the body and dash, who knows if they match?
For some reason LA built cars usually DON'T have build sheets. :('
Quote from: ec_co on March 30, 2017, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: MoparDave on March 30, 2017, 04:04:21 PM
interesting to know if there is a fender tag, or any paper work to valid
and if the body #s match. too much information lacking for a potential high dollar car, doesn't make sense. if the seller wanted top dollar there would be pics of tags, BC, cowl #, rad #, door ... anything. but there is nothing but the body and dash, who knows if they match?
I sent the seller a message, we will see if he can provide anything.
That's the earliest VIN # I think I've ever seen on an E Body.
known pre-production "PILOT" E-bodies from LA -
BH23G0E100001
BS23V0E100004
BS23V0E100007
JS23N0E100010
known pre-production "PILOT" E-bodies from MI -
BS23R0B100003
BS27V0B100004
BH27N0B100008
BS23R0B100010
JH27G0B100013
JS29R0B100015
JS23R0B100020
JS27V0B100021
JS27R0B100022
JS27V0B100028
Talked to the guy and he said the vin #'s match on the cowl, rad support, door, etc. I said send or post pics so we will see. He also said he has ALL the parts for the car, but didn't recognize all the wrong parts in his pics I point out. IMO I would not chance it on this one unless I see it in person, and take an expert like
@Cuda Cody (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cuda-cody_1) or @6bblgt (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/6bblgt_211) with me. :grouphug:
What about A fender tag? :popcorn:
The engine block casting date is 10-31-69, so the motor is not original. For this to be a pilot car, the engine would have had to been cast prior to the build. I'm guessing June/July 69?
There will not be a build sheet, as the LA plant had a "No Waste" policy and all build sheets were discarded on the assembly line. There are a few examples where this did not happen, however. You can never say 100% on anything in the Mopar world.
Quote from: B5Cuda440-6 on April 01, 2017, 07:56:20 AM
There will not be a build sheet, as the LA plant had a "No Waste" policy and all build sheets were discarded on the assembly line. There are a few examples where this did not happen, however. You can never say 100% on anything in the Mopar world.
mine has one, too bad it's for another /6 a couple hundred #s off mine :crying:
This guys positive rating is 88.9 which is horrible and the feedback on his sales looks pretty poor. Don't think I would try any kind of online purchase from them. :alan2cents:
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 31, 2017, 10:54:58 AM
known pre-production "PILOT" E-bodies from LA -
BH23G0E100001
BS23V0E100004
BS23V0E100007
JS23N0E100010
known pre-production "PILOT" E-bodies from MI -
BS23R0B100003
BS27V0B100004
BH27N0B100008
BS23R0B100010
JH27G0B100013
JS29R0B100015
JS23R0B100020
JS27V0B100021
JS27R0B100022
JS27V0B100028
Pilot cars all have the 801 build date right?
Were they actually built on August 1st, or were they made before that?
Can you share any more info on BH23G0E100001 ?
VIN number 1 would be such a cool number to have, even if it's a 318 car. :)
Is the VIN for Yellow Jacket / Diamante on your list already? I heard it's the first Hemi Challenger built.
It seems like there should be some pilot A body VINs mixed in there also right? Is that what the missing numbers are?
for 1970 "PILOT" cars received an 801-SPD, they were built months prior to that
IIRC the original engines in:
0B100004 engine assembly date is F440 5/21 HP & 0B100021 engine assembly date is F440 5/28 HP
0B100022 is Yellow Jacket/Diamante (& has the same owner as 0E100001 - 318 auto is all I know)
Yes, there should also be "PILOT" A-bodies from Hamtramck & B-bodies from LA - I know of none
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 31, 2017, 10:54:58 AM
known pre-production "PILOT" E-bodies from MI -
BS23R0B100003
BS27V0B100004
BH27N0B100008
BS23R0B100010
JH27G0B100013
JS29R0B100015
JS23R0B100020
JS27V0B100021
JS27R0B100022
JS27V0B100028
what about JS23V0B100019?
Quote from: Spikedog08 on March 30, 2017, 01:59:46 PM
What does it mean that it is a pilot car? :huh:
Maybe he means to say it is a "Project Car" ... or he's a pilot? :dunno:
[/quote]
what about JS23V0B100019?
[/quote]
Now that's a cool tag of codes! :bravo:
What are the codes for each plant?
For the truly knowledgable ones, did they start production earlier in 72? Cause scf100's car has a 730 SPD which points to a earlier than normal build date.... But the sequence number isn't real early.... And certainly isn't late...
6th digit -
Hamtramck, MI assembly = "B"
Los Angeles, CA assembly = "E"
:iagree: Only 2 plants build E-Bodies. :twothumbsup: For example, BS23H0B123456 = Hamtramck, MI
Chrysler Corp. started "normal" 1972 model year production around 7/14/71
Does anyone know the whereabouts of JS23V0B100019? I used to own it. I bought it from the original owners back in '89-'90. I sold it in 2000. I lost track of it after Barrett Jackson auction in 2003. Just wondering where it is now.
I didn't own the Cuda. I owned JS23V0B1000019, '70 Challenger R/T 440 six pack pilot car. Sorry for the confusion.
Quote from: Shakerdon on July 27, 2017, 12:33:55 PM
Does anyone know the whereabouts of JS23V0B100019? I used to own it. I bought it from the original owners back in '89-'90. I sold it in 2000. I lost track of it after Barrett Jackson auction in 2003. Just wondering where it is now.
Maybe ask "cudaized" Ola Nilson
Link with photos:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=65103.60 (http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=65103.60)
Still a super rare and cool early production car. Do you have any photos back when you owned it?
Quote from: Shakerdon on July 27, 2017, 01:02:28 PM
I didn't own the Cuda. I owned JS23V0B1000019, '70 Challenger R/T 440 six pack pilot car. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks. I'll give that a try.
Here are some pictures of it back in 1990. The last time I saw a picture of the car was when it was for sale at the Barrett Jackson Auction in Phoenix in 2003 (I think). The owner had added the hood stripe and rocker moldings to it. I'm a purist, and think that they should have left it the way it was built. But that's just me. The car had some unique things about it. I knew the original owner, who bought it with a few thousand miles on it from a Dodge dealer in New York back in 1970. The unique things I'm going to mention were already on the car when he purchased it. It had a circular metal plate covering an antenna hole in the right quarter panel (ala T/A Challenger). The plate was tacked in from inside the trunk, and was filled in, and painted. I don't know if the factory had done this, or the dealership he bought it from did it. Another thing was the seams inside the door openings were filled in smooth. Normally, you can see the lip of the quarter panel as it folds into the door jamb opening. This car was seamless. It made for a very clean appearance when you opened the door. The body tag was coded with Y91, which meant "show car finish". I don't know if the seamless door jambs was part of the show car finish or not. I often wondered if this car had maybe been used at the 1970 New York auto show. Maybe it was just coincidental that the car ended up at a Dodge dealer's lot in New York. I was never able to find any photos of the Dodge exhibit from that show, to see if it was shown there.
That looks nice.
Quote from: Shakerdon on July 29, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
The car had some unique things about it. I knew the original owner, who bought it with a few thousand miles on it from a Dodge dealer in New York back in 1970. The unique things I'm going to mention were already on the car when he purchased it. It had a circular metal plate covering an antenna hole in the right quarter panel (ala T/A Challenger). The plate was tacked in from inside the trunk, and was filled in, and painted. I don't know if the factory had done this, or the dealership he bought it from did it. Another thing was the seams inside the door openings were filled in smooth. Normally, you can see the lip of the quarter panel as it folds into the door jamb opening. This car was seamless. It made for a very clean appearance when you opened the door. The body tag was coded with Y91, which meant "show car finish". I don't know if the seamless door jambs was part of the show car finish or not. I often wondered if this car had maybe been used at the 1970 New York auto show. Maybe it was just coincidental that the car ended up at a Dodge dealer's lot in New York. I was never able to find any photos of the Dodge exhibit from that show, to see if it was shown there.
That's very interesting for such an early built car (VIN #19) to have a T/A antenna hole before it was sold new. (regardless of who filled the hole before that first sale)
You said that it had a few thousand miles on it already when it was sold new in 1970. Any idea what month it was sold in 1970?
Was the tail panel blackout shown in your pictures also on the car when it sold new?
I can't help but notice that the car is yellow with a black vinyl top, flip top fuel cap, and front bumperettes like the car used in the T/A advertising.
My friend's dad purchased the car from Westfield Dodge City in Westfield, New York on October 14
1970. $3673.00!
The black tail panel was already on the car when he purchased it. I can't find my paperwork, but I seem to remember it had around 5000 miles on it when he bought it. If you're thinking that this car may have been used for the TA ad, I don't know if Dodge would have swapped a hood,wheels, and stripes ( maybe airbrushed in the photo), and 1971 grille. The hood on my car did have "job 164" written on the two scoops, so if they would have swapped hoods, they put the correct hood back on.
Interesting thought, though.
Thanks for the extra info. October seems like far to early for any T/A photoshoots anyway. From what I understand, there weren't any T/A hoods yet back that far.
The yellow 71 T/A advertisement is actually the same car that's in the black and white 70 T/A advertisement, they just airbrushed the 71 grill onto the photo and released the color version instead of black and white.
I'm not sure how good their photo editing skills were back then, but it looks like they did a good job to me.
I would think it would have been considerably more difficult to edit on a hood, spoiler, exhaust, and stripes though. Probably didn't happen.
Still, it's interesting that the car had a rear antenna hole and tail panel blackout.
Quote from: cataclysm80 on August 06, 2017, 08:50:41 PM
Thanks for the extra info. October seems like far to early for any T/A photoshoots anyway. From what I understand, there weren't any T/A hoods yet back that far.
The yellow 71 T/A advertisement is actually the same car that's in the black and white 70 T/A advertisement, they just airbrushed the 71 grill onto the photo and released the color version instead of black and white.
I'm not sure how good their photo editing skills were back then, but it looks like they did a good job to me.
I would think it would have been considerably more difficult to edit on a hood, spoiler, exhaust, and stripes though. Probably didn't happen.
Still, it's interesting that the car had a rear antenna hole and tail panel blackout.
I read a story back in 1989 or 1990 in MM or MCG (I think it was MM) about a lime green hemi challenger that was ordered with the TA hood. The hoods were on back order and when the car came in to the dealer it had the RT hood on it. It was specifically noted in the article that the car also had the antenna on the rear like a TA. It stood out to me because when I was 12 years old I had no idea that the TA and other challengers had different locations for the antenna.
Don
Quote from: the_cuda_guy on September 05, 2017, 10:29:59 PM
I read a story back in 1989 or 1990 in MM or MCG (I think it was MM) about a lime green hemi challenger that was ordered with the TA hood. The hoods were on back order and when the car came in to the dealer it had the RT hood on it. It was specifically noted in the article that the car also had the antenna on the rear like a TA. It stood out to me because when I was 12 years old I had no idea that the TA and other challengers had different locations for the antenna.
Don
does this story/article sound familiar to anyone? would like to narrow it down a bit & find the magazine :twothumbsup:
Hmm, I have the mags...I'll see if I can assist this weekend. :fingerscrossed:
Ebay ad says it was bid to $40k and then the seller ended the ad and said it was sold. :dunno:
:popcorn: