Good day all!
So, I will admit that I've never owned a Plymouth but am not new to the Muscle car/collector car world. I tend to over research EVERY purchase, but with a potential high dollar car such as this, would love some expert advice.
I will start off by saying, sorry for the poor pics. I have not seen the car in person and the seller is an older gentleman who may still be using a potato to take pictures. The car is NOT local to me, so I will be traveling quite a distance to inspect prior to a deal being made. Although, a tentative agreed upon price has been established.
Here's what I know (or at least think I know) about the car.
-Repainted 10+ years ago
-Numbers match (trans, block, rad support, cowl etc)
-Manual top (were these even available in electric?)
-Owner is not sure of the extent of rust repair or if any metal was replaced (nothing was done during his ownership)
-Hood pins are NOT on the fender tag
-Chrome Mirrors also NOT on fender tag
My concern is a few things:
-Based on Hagerty's valuation, this car in concours condition is worth $77,600 and excellent condition is $57,900. The owner is asking $60k (excellent+ according to Hagerty).
-The fender tag certainly looks like it was/is rusting with a few pinholes. This makes me believe the car has had rust repairs in other areas.
-Car is in storage and apparently was stored with the top down. It appears where the top meets the rear glass is lifting, is this a result of being stored in the down position?
-The drivers side trunk area looks odd to me. Almost like there is a seam where a new pan was welded in and repainted? Again, not a Mopar guy so unsure of how they came from the factory.
What do you pro's think this car is worth? What other questions or areas should I inspect?
I will follow up this post with replies containing more pics (allowed only 10 pics in this post)
Thank you all! :cheers:
Additional Pics
Pics part3
WELCOME TO THE BOARD!!!
First and foremost, it's not a 'cuda (VIN starts with BS). It's a 383 2BBL (L code) Barracuda (VIN starts with BH) that has been cloned into a 'cuda. L code cars are pretty uncommon, but I don't want you to think you are buying a true 'cuda when you aren't.
The best way to gauge the market and pricing is to look online to see what others have sold at. Ebay is a good place to look, as is Hemmings. Don't look at the astronomical asking prices, but the realistic sold prices.
Based on what I see there and the current market of Barracuda convertibles, I think 50-60K for that isn't bad if the sheet metal doesn't have to be redone.
I see it's in NJ, so depending on where in NJ I could take a look at it for you if you would like.
Quote from: erik70rt on August 11, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
First and foremost, it's not a 'cuda (VIN starts with BS). It's a 383 2BBL (L code) Barracuda (VIN starts with BH) that has been cloned into a 'cuda. L code cars are pretty uncommon, but I don't want you to think you are buying a true 'cuda when you aren't.
The best way to gauge the market and pricing is to look online to see what others have sold at. Ebay is a good place to look, as is Hemmings. Don't look at the astronomical asking prices, but the realistic sold prices.
Based on what I see there and the current market of Barracuda convertibles, I think 50-60K for that isn't bad if the sheet metal doesn't have to be redone.
Thanks Erik,
Yes, I was aware it wasn't a Cuda. From what I understand, this car has a 2barrel carb which basically makes it basic Barracuda. If this would have had a 4barrel from the factory it would be a Cuda and value would be significantly higher (from what I understand).
Ok, so as long as the current panels don't need replacement (owner says they are fantastic) $60k isn't too crazy?
Yeah, I wish it was a 4spd car. Was thinking of pulling the trans, storing it and putting in a Tremec 5 spd unit. Of course that's $6k+ right there (not including labor).
It's been hard to find comps as this is 1-59 according to production numbers.
Appreciate your insight
Quote from: erik70rt on August 11, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
I see it's in NJ, so depending on where in NJ I could take a look at it for you if you would like.
Just seeing this, it's about 20 min west of Newark. How far from you is that? Really appreciate the offer, super kind of ya!
Quote from: indetrucks on August 11, 2021, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: erik70rt on August 11, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
I see it's in NJ, so depending on where in NJ I could take a look at it for you if you would like.
Just seeing this, it's about 20 min west of Newark. How far from you is that? Really appreciate the offer, super kind of ya!
It's about an hour from my house, but I'll be in NJ this weekend out that way.
And as far as the top by the back window, that will go down naturally. My top does that anytime I put it down. But NEVER store a convertible with the top down for long periods. The top needs to be stretched or it will shrink, and you will have to slowly stretch it out to get it back into the up and locked position.
I agree with Erik on the price considering the panel conditions are good too. I just upped my Hagerty coverage to $60k CAD, it's a 318/auto that's no where near as original as this one.
My top looks the same after putting it up, like Erik said, that's kinda normal.
These did come with the optional power top (electric/hydraulic), FWIW mine is.
Look close at the frame rails, make sure they're not "soft". Judging from the pics and description they're probably okay.
Good luck, you can never go wrong with an ebody convertible.
Quote from: erik70rt on August 11, 2021, 10:41:46 AM
Quote from: indetrucks on August 11, 2021, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: erik70rt on August 11, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
I see it's in NJ, so depending on where in NJ I could take a look at it for you if you would like.
Just seeing this, it's about 20 min west of Newark. How far from you is that? Really appreciate the offer, super kind of ya!
It's about an hour from my house, but I'll be in NJ this weekend out that way.
And as far as the top by the back window, that will go down naturally. My top does that anytime I put it down. But NEVER store a convertible with the top down for long periods. The top needs to be stretched or it will shrink, and you will have to slowly stretch it out to get it back into the up and locked position.
Send ya a PM Erik
I think the asking price is fair :alan2cents: You couldn't build one for that price.
Does anyone thing the trunk metal was replaced based on the pics? It appears there is a seam where maybe someone welded in a new piece and repainted over it?
Quote from: erik70rt on August 11, 2021, 10:41:46 AM
I see it's in NJ, so depending on where in NJ I could take a look at it for you if you would like.
Hi Erik, I sent you a PM, but when I didn't get a response I checked my "sent" folder and it states I cannot send personal messages? Either way, would love to chat about your offer to inspect this weekend. That would be HUGE for me.
Call/txt me? 3onezero 9one9.7eight2six
Or you can try sending me a message, but not sure if i can respond? "Likely because I'm new here"
many thanks
Quote from: indetrucks on August 11, 2021, 12:13:43 PM
Quote from: erik70rt on August 11, 2021, 10:41:46 AM
I see it's in NJ, so depending on where in NJ I could take a look at it for you if you would like.
Hi Erik, I sent you a PM, but when I didn't get a response I checked my "sent" folder and it states I cannot send personal messages? Either way, would love to chat about your offer to inspect this weekend. That would be HUGE for me.
Call/txt me? 3onezero 9one9.7eight2six
Or you can try sending me a message, but not sure if i can respond? "Likely because I'm new here"
many thanks
It came to me in an email, so that is how I responded.
Also, those seams you see are correct. It's where the trunk pan meets the trunk extension.
I think the trunk floor and extensions have been replaced at one time. Very common on E Bodies to rust out there :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on August 11, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
I think the trunk floor and extensions have been replaced at one time. Very common on E Bodies to rust out there :alan2cents:
I am going to go look at it this weekend, so I'll look for non factory seams in the quarters and such.
Congrats on entering the Mopar/muscle car world. As mentioned above, if the car checks out, it may be hard to find a better deal. Since you've already worked a price, it may tough to negotiate if you see something you don't like on inspection - maybe not enough to kill the deal, but you may want to be diplomatic on getting it lower.
Keep us posted and welcome to the best car forum on the web!
Quote from: Mopsquad on August 11, 2021, 01:45:55 PM
Congrats on entering the Mopar/muscle car world. As mentioned above, if the car checks out, it may be hard to find a better deal. Since you've already worked a price, it may tough to negotiate if you see something you don't like on inspection - maybe not enough to kill the deal, but you may want to be diplomatic on getting it lower.
Keep us posted and welcome to the best car forum on the web!
Thanks man! I'm so excited... knew I wanted a 70 Cuda / Barracuda, but never under my wildest dreams would thing it would be a vert! Would have waited for a 4spd car, but with it being a convertible... I was able to overlook that. Can always do a minimally invasive Tremec TKX 5spd at some point and just hold on to the original trans if I MUST have a manual.
Yes, I agree and the only deal breaker here would be if Erik finds some bad cancer or something similar. If it all checks out, I'm certain it will be mine.
Thanks for the warm welcome and I'm happy to be a part of this forum. I grew up on forums well before reddit, instagram and facebook were even a thing, so this communication format is very familiar. I like being part of this niche communities... case in point, total stranger "Erik" is volunteering his time to help with the inspection. So awesome and my wife is over the moon too! :banana:
:popcorn:
I have a question, realistically...if I wanted to lower the 70Cuda 1 or 2 inches, would adjusting the front torsion bars and throwing a couple blocks on the back be acceptable? I know drop spindles in the front are the "correct" way, but could I lower it with just a torsion bar adjustment+ alignment and blocks?
Please don't flame me, I'm not looking to dump it, just lowered it a tad.
I think the car sits pretty low now, but like you said, personal preference....it's all good, no flaming here ....your plan of blocks and t-bar adjustment will get you where you want to be in my opinion... :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on August 11, 2021, 06:26:53 PM
I think the car sits pretty low now, but like you said, personal preference....it's all good, no flaming here ....your plan of blocks and t-bar adjustment will get you where you want to be in my opinion... :alan2cents:
Yeah, I may be jumping the gun without even seeing the car in person. But good to know I'm on the right track if that's the route I wanted to take.
Appreciate the feedback.
Looks like home done, cosmetic resto. A 30 foot car. Remember that condition is all and the difference between a #3 car and a # 2 car is at least double the cost.
A #2 car is a rotisserie restoration that somebody drove.
A #1 car is a museum piece.
Everybody thinks that they have a # 2 car when they try to sell it but it is usually a #3-4 condition or lower.
Remember that once you buy a car. it is yours after the twinkle is gone a short time later. Always best to have someone familiar with these cars to inspect it for you.
Just like if you were buying jewelry. A Cubic Zirconia looks better than a real diamond, but it isn't...
Welcome to the board!
It would be a good idea to bring someone with you who knows E-bodies, and in particular, the trouble spots. It shouldn't be too hard to find a local member of this forum and/or an appraiser that could join you when you fly in.
So, a few thoughts:
- though it's a Barracuda v. 'Cuda; convertibles in a good cosmetic and driving condition are not that common. So it's not like there will ever be 100 comparable vehicles to choose from at the same time.
First impressions from the photos is that it's a good #3 condition driver that hasn't been messed with too much.
Pros:
- turn key
- big block
- good colour combo
- nice options (rallye dash, AM/8-track with 3 speaker dash, A/C, console, light group, slap-stik etc.)
- low number of owners/long history with current owner
- shiny paint
- good interior
- mechanicals presumed to be good
- if the rear interior panels are original and in good shape, that is a huge bonus. They are worth thousands on their own.
Cons:
- condition of body & prior work under the paint not known
- not enough detailed pictures to go by
From the pictures, and knowing E-bodies, I would say that it's almost certain that the trunk floor was replaced. However, the exception would be an E-body convertible that never needed the trunk floor replaced
- the inside of the quarter panels appear to have the original undercoat pattern on them -- there's a good chance that most of the quarters are indeed original
- almost certainly there will have been pinholes filled or patches made for the lower rear quarters, even if the rest of the car is solid. Bring a fridge magnet or paint gauge, look for bubbling in the paint. If the rest of the car is good, this is not a show-stopper.
- check the inner fenders -- look for bubbling or evidence of repair at the hood hinge area, and where the inner fenders join the shock towers
- frame rails - front torsion bar crossmember, left front frame rail underneath the battery area/by the steering box, rear rails at the front spring boxes and at the rear sections
- cowl - look for repair underneath the windshield wiper motor, esp. at the drain and also around the brake booster
All of the above are common issues, but repairable. That's why I recommend that you get some local to assist you.
Lastly, to your other questions:
- convertible top flap not sitting flat -- no worries, the top flap will settle down. It is not attached to the rear glass like the bottom part is
- manual vs. power top. Power top was an option, if you do want to upgrade, everything is available to make the change (cylinders, lines, switch, wiring)
- as a Barracuda, it would not have hood pins. Reproduction brackets and pin kits are readily available
- dual chrome mirrors -- my guess is that the car came with a single, non-remote 'poverty' mirror on the LH side only. However, the added dual mirrors will not hurt the value and IMHO are necessary if you intend to drive the car a lot. Even so, the OEM passenger side mirror is barely more than an ornament.
- fender tag actually looks pretty good for an Eastern car and it also appears to be original (both pluses)
If the car checks out, I don't think that $60K is out of line, especially considering that basket case E-body convertibles needing full restoration are selling for almost half that.
YMMV
Some other options:
https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/102499
https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/101867
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/plymouth/barracuda/2483702.html
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/plymouth/barracuda/2494487.html
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/plymouth/cuda/2508574.html
And a basket case for $40K https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/105783
Quote from: YYZ on August 12, 2021, 03:58:12 AM
Welcome to the board!
It would be a good idea to bring someone with you who knows E-bodies, and in particular, the trouble spots. It shouldn't be too hard to find a local member of this forum and/or an appraiser that could join you when you fly in.
If the car checks out, I don't think that $60K is out of line, especially considering that basket case E-body convertibles needing full restoration are selling for almost half that.
YMMV
Thank you for your thoughts and I agree, having a subject matter expert inspect the car is a great idea and I was fortunate to have Erik here on the ebody forum to volunteer! We are shooting for Sunday.
Quote from: YYZ on August 12, 2021, 04:06:08 AM
Some other options:
https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/102499
https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/101867
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/plymouth/barracuda/2483702.html
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/plymouth/barracuda/2494487.html
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/plymouth/cuda/2508574.html
And a basket case for $40K https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/105783
Thanks for those, I am not partial to verts... in fact I would really like an AAR car but the one I found which was my max budget of $70k had a few things wrong (front rad support replaced, rallye dash installed along with incorrect 4spd installed). Everything else was good (original TA block etc) It sure was purty, but for $70k was hoping it was a little more original.
I think this car was the best of what I've seen, mainly due to the matching numbers and orig. trans/engine. Let's see what Erik reports back on Sunday!
You'll be in good hands with Erik -- he's been in this hobby a long time and knows his E-bodies
By chance, was the AAR the blue on blue/white one from up here?
Btw - if you want to put a 4bbl or 6bbl setup on the convertible, it's about as easy as it gets with a big block Mopar. There are no water passages in the intake manifold, so 8 bolts and some gaskets and you're in business. Unlike small block Chevys, Mopars do not have the distributor passing through the intake manifold.
If you do go 6bbl you may need to modify the brackets for your A/C compressor.
Keep us posted!
Why thank you!!! Hard to believe I've been wrenching on E-bodies for so long! :thankyou:
Quote from: YYZ on August 12, 2021, 07:24:47 AM
You'll be in good hands with Erik -- he's been in this hobby a long time and knows his E-bodies
By chance, was the AAR the blue on blue/white one from up here?
Btw - if you want to put a 4bbl or 6bbl setup on the convertible, it's about as easy as it gets with a big block Mopar. There are no water passages in the intake manifold, so 8 bolts and some gaskets and you're in business. Unlike small block Chevys, Mopars do not have the distributor passing through the intake manifold.
If you do go 6bbl you may need to modify the brackets for your A/C compressor.
No, it was a red one out in Colorado. Beautiful car, but doesn't come with the original trans and like I said, at one point in its life was in a front end collision.
Which intake and 4b carb would you recommend? Try to find a factory 4b intake and carb or go with the typical edelbrock/holly set up? What would I expect in terms of HP gain... 30+ ? To be honest, I may just leave it stock... im older now and the days of driving like a teenager a bit behind me.
Also, I assume the vert im looking at doesn't have sure grip. What's best to remedy that, complete rear end or can I simply change out the internals?
I'll check to see if it has a sure grip. I'd be surprised if they didn't put one in during the resto. If not, it's pretty easy to do with a swap of the pumpkin. Just make sure you remember to put in the spacer between the alxes or you will have too much play in them - esp on the right side.
Something tells me your heart is yearning for a Transam car.
The sound (screech/wail) of a 340-6 operating at its max RPM threshold is pretty intoxicating. This holds true for both transmission types ! Only way to experience it ....is by owning one.
Don't settle. : )
Quote from: TA/Z06/GSXR1100 on August 12, 2021, 09:45:54 AM
Something tells me your heart is yearning for a Transam car.
The sound (screech/wail) of a 340-6 operating at its max RPM threshold is pretty intoxicating. This holds true for both transmission types ! Only way to experience it ....is by owning one.
Don't settle. : )
Certainly wouldn't be settling with a vert, I know how rare they are and NOTHING beats cruising PCH here in Southern CA in a vert!
Not a Barracuda but its a real RT Vert. I'll be listing this one soon as well. Has non matching 440 and painted a custom color but its a very nice car. Probably be asking around $60k as well.
Waiting for the car to arrive for the inspection
Quote from: erik70rt on August 14, 2021, 01:19:35 PM
Waiting for the car to arrive for the inspection
They're bringing it to you ? that's handy :bigthumb:
Quote from: Poolshark314 on August 14, 2021, 02:10:40 PM
Welcome @indetrucks (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/indetrucks_13005) ! Good luck and hope it all pans out! I was wondering if you were going to take home that Rallye Red restomod the other day, but that seller seemed pretty out there
Thanks! Glad to be here, love learning new things from the SME's this forum has.
Are you talking about the car on BAT? Yeah, I liked it... but not at $70k. He just posted it on FB for $74,995 I think $50k is fair, regardless of what it was appraised at (appraisals are ALWAYS padded). I knew they wanted more, seller was a dealer and they need to get their cut whether it was a flip, consignment etc. That's always been a problem when buying from dealers, you are paying well above market most of the time if buying from a dealer.
I'm excited to hear what Erik finds out about this vert. I'm very fortunate we crossed paths.
Quote from: erik70rt on August 15, 2021, 03:30:55 PM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13mF35OFPVwujfLi0CA-ChNlwA5FIMYHu/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/13mF35OFPVwujfLi0CA-ChNlwA5FIMYHu/view?usp=sharing)
Video of the car I took yesterday. Lighting wasn't the best where it was being kept.
Thanks for inspecting the car for me Erik, you are one of the few good ones left :thankyou:
When you walked behind the car while it was running, it sounded almost like it had a funny "miss" or fluttering sound. Didn't sound like a typical healthy running muscle car from the back. Am I just crazy or does it sound "off" to you as well?
To me, the exhaust sounded like it had a popping sound at the back almost like a crossfire or an intermittent miss. Hard to tell.
Terry W.
It sounded fine. Sounded even better when I kicked off the choke.
That's the "throaty" sound I'm familiar with, normal to me.
Did you end up purchasing the vert?
No, but wish I did. Erik looked at it and he didn't give me the warm and fuzziest. I passed and then learned he went back and tried to purchase it. Seller thought that was strange and sold it to someone else who has it listed now on eBay for $110k. I'm pretty bummed... Turns out it was a smoking deal :tired:
Quote from: indetrucks on September 17, 2021, 11:06:25 AM
listed now on eBay for $110k.
I was curious so I just looked and couldn't find it. Searched Barracuda convertible and Cuda convertible, could it have possibly sold already.
indetrucks
Sorry you lost out on the Barracuda vert.
Not to make you feel bad; I just realized it is a vert with factory AC. That made it even more special! :(
Keep looking and something will turn up.
Quote from: indetrucks on September 17, 2021, 11:06:25 AM
No, but wish I did. Erik looked at it and he didn't give me the warm and fuzziest. I passed and then learned he went back and tried to purchase it. Seller thought that was strange and sold it to someone else who has it listed now on eBay for $110k. I'm pretty bummed... Turns out it was a smoking deal :tired:
Erik tried to buy it ? That's weird, did he at least give you first right of refusal ? He's a pretty straight shooter :dunno:
:popcorn: