We've all heard that the manual transmission is becoming a thing of the past, but there's some other features on cars that are going away too.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/new-car-features-and-the-ones-theyre-making-extinct
40% of all new cars are now coming with start / stop technology! Does that scare anyone? What about the wear and tear that causes? Anyone have a start / stop car?
My Wife's last two cars have had start/stop, it's not too bad. 2016 BMW X1 and a 2017 Toyota Highlander.
It works pretty seamless, I suspect the starter duty cycles have been bumped up to account for the much higher life cycle they need to have. I do love not having a key for her car, walk up and hit the button. My lowly Subaru still has a standard key and I've grown to find it annoying.
The Highlander also has lane keeping, which is kind of neat, it helps you manage the lane while you do your makeup and post to Ebodies.org while going 70mph down the highway. :stop:
Quote from: Cuda Cody on October 10, 2018, 06:07:46 PM
We've all heard that the manual transmission is becoming a thing of the past, but there's some other features on cars that are going away too.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/new-car-features-and-the-ones-theyre-making-extinct
40% of all new cars are now coming with start / stop technology! Does that scare anyone? What about the wear and tear that causes? Anyone have a start / stop car?
Wifes car is a Lincoln SUV and it has it. She thinks its great. I haven't had a chance to "play" with it yet.
My 2016 Charger has the start/stop button. I can get used to it.
To be honest though When I picked up my 71 Challenger and put the key in the ignition it was like having sex......well almost.... :vipermanhiding:
The internal combustion engine is on its way to the graveyard... I am fairly certain that will occur in our lifetime.
My daily driver is a Chevrolet Bolt, all electric, my commute is 30 miles each way, I charge at home. It costs me ~$3 a day to drive the 60 miles round trip. Thats equivalent to 80 MPG. The car has ~200 HP and does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, torque is instant.
My next commuter when I turn this one in two years from now is likely to be the Tesla 3, my supervisor just got a performance model and it's AWD configuration hits 60 in 3.5 seconds, it's scary fast.. He paid $68K for it.. Not sure I will go that far, or if the wife will let me, but this is what the market is trending to. There are four Tesla 3's, 2 model s's, two model x's, height Nissan leafs, four Chevy bolts, a Fiat 500e, a couple BMW I drives and we don't even have chargers at work yet. Those are going in next month.. When that happens the electric vehicle footprint will change dramatically. There are 200 people at my office and they are putting in 16 charging stations.
Maintenance on electric cars.... next to nothing drivetrain wise. 1 year in, 15K miles and all I have done is plug it in and drive. Will be replacing tires soon since the cheap tires provided and the massive torque combined with my Led Foot equals worn out tires.
The only feature I will miss is drivers!!!!
Quote from: ledphoot on October 10, 2018, 07:04:58 PM
The internal combustion engine is on its way to the graveyard... I am fairly certain that will occur in our lifetime.
..it will, but I'll be hanging onto my gas burner as long as possible. As fast as the electrics are, they offer little thrill to me. It can't replace hammering the brakes, rev matching two down shifts and laying the power down on corner exit!
I see more electric cars here too. A lot of commercial business's are putting in charging stations.
Personally I see stop/start becoming a disaster as these cars age...... not right now (maybe) but as time goes.....
Its winter you need a jump... you get a jump... you make it to the first stop light....................
Your starter takes a crap while your in line to get on the interstate......
Your at Micky D's in the drive thru..... your alternator dies.......
I could go on for an hour with examples.... now if batteries and starters and charging systems would never die..... ?? we're good! Ya I suppose you saved a few bucks on gas thru the course of a year but, when you daughter's car dies in that busy intersection and your clear across town, in the blizzard..... :deadhorse:
Give it a few years and the stories will start rollin' on in....
We've already got a bunch in the yard, there built no better than the conventional's. I've had them as rental cars too.
And yes we've had calls on "spares", What do you mean?? They don't make one for my car???? ..... oh ya been there too.....
Quote from: GoodysGotaCuda on October 10, 2018, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: ledphoot on October 10, 2018, 07:04:58 PM
The internal combustion engine is on its way to the graveyard... I am fairly certain that will occur in our lifetime.
..it will, but I'll be hanging onto my gas burner as long as possible. As fast as the electrics are, they offer little thrill to me. It can't replace hammering the brakes, rev matching two down shifts and laying the power down on corner exit!
My Cuda is NEVER going anywhere. But it's not a practical daily driver, especially with >500HP.. I wouldn't daily drive a Challenger SRT8 either.
If you ever get to drive a performance edition Tesla, you may be shocked at the giggle factor they can induce. So surprisingly quick, quiet and they handle pretty good too. I am a computer nerd, so I love the tech. It's quite likely I will build my own electric car at some point. I am looking for the right donor, currently leaning towards a 1979 Mazda RX7.
Here's a mustang that's been converted to electric.. Not really what I am in to, but it's an idea of what people do with electrics these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vTCK9ywBA
I have no plans to EVER own an electric car. However, I really enjoy my wife's Prius. The thing I like about it is that it has a gas engine with electric backup. It never needs to be plugged in. And it's averaging 65 mpg ... When my wife is driving the car. I'm lucky to get 55 mpg. :haha:
Electric cars are greats for other people. I'm using all the gas I can get my hands on and I keep the window down when I get on it so I can hear the music.
I think electric is probably the way of the future though and that's good as long as they lay off bugging old car owners. Hobby cars don't use much gas in the big scheme of things. So in a free world we should be allowed and encouraged to enjoy our old cars, commuters can use electric or whatever.
My wife's Mercedes had that stop and start stuff and it was fine I suppose. I made sure to get rid of that clunker before it got too old though. When I finally get rid of her current Mercedes I'll probably buy her a Civic with the least amount of stuff on it that can go wrong.
I am no tree hugging hippie by any stretch of the imagination, I love my gas powered vehicles, I have several. Just calling it how I see it. Keep an eye on Ford and GM's model lineup over the next three years. The writing is on the wall.
Manual transmissions look to be on their way out too. :(
my new ram doesn't have a cd player...didn't realize it until I already bought it
I own 10 vehicles ,only two made in this century , newest is a 2006 Police Interceptor.
I won't own a coal fired car.
DD van gets 11 mpg, mpg is not the only reason to drive a vehicle , have 404,000 miles on it , don't want to do the math on gas bought , glad to have the van when I need it .
Electric cars ARE the future, but, it isnt here yet from a wallet standpoint. I.e. I love the post talking about his bolt getting an equivalent of 80 MPGe. Thats wonderful, but, it doesn't beging to be economical.
Compare...10,000 miles per year at 80 MPGe means in a year you will spend about $343 per year for the electricity. Now then instead buy a Toyota Camry which gets 34 mpg (epa combined city/highway rating). This will cost you about $808 for gasoline. A savings of $465 per year in fuel costs with the Bolt. However the Bolt base price is $41,780 minus the Camry's base of $23,845. Difference is $17,935. $17,935 / $465 = 38... So, it would take you 38 years of driving to break even... 38 years..!!!!!
Oh and please do not bring up the $7,000 tax credit to me. I'm retired so i don't pay $7,000 in taxes to use that credit. Also, i find it objectionable that we give people wealthy enough to spend $41,700 on a compact economy car a tax break. That means the guy who cant afford it is subsidizing the wealthier buyers. Sumeting wong here !
Now, if you want to claim that the Bolts performance beats the Camrys 4 cylinder engine. Ok lets do the math for the V6 Camry...it gets 26 MPG combined...so it would consume $1,057 dollars worth of gas. It costs $34,000 or $7,780 dollars cheaper so $7,780 / 1057 = 7.3 years to break even...but then the Camry its a much larger more luxurious car.
Lets do a Hyundai Tucson which is a hatch back like the bolt. With optional 2.4 liter 181 hp i'm sure it would keep up with the bolt with epa of 26 combined and price of $26,550. Fuel would cost $1057 difference in cost is $15,230 / 2057 = 14.4 years to break even. ( i used $2.75 per gallon for all computations...and again did not factor in the higher sales tax on the Bolt or the cost of financing the difference....If i had the break even points would have been much higher).
I do not doubt for one second that at some point in the future the price of electric vehicles factoring in the fuel economy will be a better buy than the gasoline equivalent... But we still have a long long way to go from a purely economical standpoint !!
I once sold Toyotas for a living... had a lady come in who wanted a Hybrid Highlander... Once i showed her the math...she quickly changed her mind and bought the V6 highlander. At the time the break even point even with a $7,000 tax rebate was about 9 years (oh i did this because we didn't have a hybrid model in stock).
My neighbor has an electric car, it cost him in the ballpark of 2k dollars to have a plug installed in his garage. Looks dopey seeing his car plugged in while sitting in the driveway. He uses some app to find charging stations to plug into while traveling. Sounds like a major pain in the butt if you ask me. But to each their own.
Quote from: chargerdon on October 11, 2018, 01:13:02 PM
Electric cars ARE the future, but, it isnt here yet from a wallet standpoint. I.e. I love the post talking about his bolt getting an equivalent of 80 MPGe. Thats wonderful, but, it doesn't beging to be economical.
Compare...10,000 miles per year at 80 MPGe means in a year you will spend about $343 per year for the electricity. Now then instead buy a Toyota Camry which gets 34 mpg (epa combined city/highway rating). This will cost you about $808 for gasoline. A savings of $465 per year in fuel costs with the Bolt. However the Bolt base price is $41,780 minus the Camry's base of $23,845. Difference is $17,935. $17,935 / $465 = 38... So, it would take you 38 years of driving to break even... 38 years..!!!!!
Oh and please do not bring up the $7,000 tax credit to me. I'm retired so i don't pay $7,000 in taxes to use that credit. Also, i find it objectionable that we give people wealthy enough to spend $41,700 on a compact economy car a tax break. That means the guy who cant afford it is subsidizing the wealthier buyers. Sumeting wong here !
Now, if you want to claim that the Bolts performance beats the Camrys 4 cylinder engine. Ok lets do the math for the V6 Camry...it gets 26 MPG combined...so it would consume $1,057 dollars worth of gas. It costs $34,000 or $7,780 dollars cheaper so $7,780 / 1057 = 7.3 years to break even...but then the Camry its a much larger more luxurious car.
Lets do a Hyundai Tucson which is a hatch back like the bolt. With optional 2.4 liter 181 hp i'm sure it would keep up with the bolt with epa of 26 combined and price of $26,550. Fuel would cost $1057 difference in cost is $15,230 / 2057 = 14.4 years to break even. ( i used $2.75 per gallon for all computations...and again did not factor in the higher sales tax on the Bolt or the cost of financing the difference....If i had the break even points would have been much higher).
I do not doubt for one second that at some point in the future the price of electric vehicles factoring in the fuel economy will be a better buy than the gasoline equivalent... But we still have a long long way to go from a purely economical standpoint !!
I once sold Toyotas for a living... had a lady come in who wanted a Hybrid Highlander... Once i showed her the math...she quickly changed her mind and bought the V6 highlander. At the time the break even point even with a $7,000 tax rebate was about 9 years (oh i did this because we didn't have a hybrid model in stock).
I pay $250 a month on a 15K mile per year lease that I got through Costco. I drove the car almost exactly 15K miles in the first year. The reason I did this was I was spending $600 a month on fuel to drive my truck and wearing my truck out. So with insurance / registration and electricity I am looking at $480 a month total to use this car. I am no genius, but $480 a month is cheaper than $600 a month AND I am not wearing out my very expensive truck just driving it back and forth to work. Make sense?
A friend of ours has a Tesla...he charges it at home, but is also able to charge it at his work for free... :dunno: I think he just bought a second one for his wife too...
We have a Ford C-Max, it is a hybrid... It is an odd looking car on the outside. Great interior with plenty of room and nice creature comforts. As for the gas mileage vs. electricity debate, this thing gets really nice mileage I am averaging (between battery and motor) around 50-55mpg. That takes into account of the mileage that is only on battery as well as on motor. Not sure of the impact on electricity bill, but it cannot be much.
I love the push button start feature. I am not sure what the OP meant by idling? Perhaps referring to the "lumpy" idle of muscle car era... I am good either way, the technology is cool and interesting. My friend has a Tesla P85 whatever... and it is fast. But he loves to drive in the Challenger or the Grand National as they are more raw and these cars instantly take you back to a place in your mind. The new cars don't and probably will never do that since they do not represent what the older muscle cars did.
BTW - I hate government subsidies that are used to encourage people's behavior... I agree our government shouldn't be doing this. BUT... When you consider how much money I pay in taxes (A LOT) I have ZERO problem taking advantage of a government program to get some of MY MONEY back.
Just to poke at you a little, I got $10K in tax credit applied to the lease of this car thanks to California's subsidy on top of the federal subsidy. Additionally I got a $700 Costco gift card and a $500 PG&E rebate, which I used to purchase my clipper creek charging unit that I installed myself. Additionally I get to drive in the carpool lane all by myself which saves me a ~10 minutes each way on my commute, how do you put a dollar figure on 20 minutes of your time each and every day? Remember thats about two hours a week. It adds up.
I don't consider my Bolt a performance car but it handles pretty good and it is quite fast. Consider 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.. That's stock 440 e-body territory. ANY Tesla will lay waste to most E-Body's. I wouldn't line up against one with a 500HP e-body, it'd be embarrassing. Would I trade my Cuda for a Tesla? No.. But we are talking performance and the numbers do not lie.
Yeah what a terrible deal I got... The economics just don't work.. Meh. Would it have been cheaper to buy a Camry and drive it for years and years? YES.. Would it make sense for me? Nope, not really.. Next car will be electric too.
I will never own any car that isn't made by FCA. If and when Chrysler makes an electric car I'll stick with my gas guzzling RAM :))
I don't really care what people drive, that's like politics and religion, do what YOU believe is right. I have been waiting to see if FCA will really get in the electric game. They have that little 500E, which isn't really a contender IMHO. If they made an E-Cat Challenger or Charger that could go toe to toe with a Tesla at a marginally better price I'd buy it.
It's interesting to look at the strategies of the big car companies. All the goodness in the FCA camp comes from traditional large displacement brute force, the trucks, chargers and challengers with big motors are all pretty sweet. Ford's approach is quite different, they're looking at moderate displacement turbocharged motors in lighter vehicles, the Raptor and Mustangs are awesome vehicles. . GM is going to go electric. Toyota is all about their hybrid platform. Honda isn't really innovating they're following the if it ain't broke don't fix it approach.
As for the new tech, it has its problems. My Ram started leaving the radio on the other day. It's gotta go back to the dealership for a software update. The Bolt has a recall that required a software update. There will be risks to consider with regards to how computerized our vehicles are and whether the manufactures took steps to secure the systems that enable all this tech. Hackers are smart bastards, so I may one day regret my choice to follow the high tech path. Time will tell.
Ok...Sorry i rattled your chain ledphoot... apparently your opinion is for me to stick my math... Understood... But here is some more for you... Sell that truck since you cant afford the gas to drive it and it is still costing you depreciation, license, title per year sitting in the driveway.
Here in NC average price of a gallon of gas is $2.75 Now you said you put just under 15,000 on the leased vehicle...So i assume that meant that you were putting 15,000 a year on your truck or 1,250 miles per month. Now $600 per month at 2.75 per gallon means you were buying 218 gallons a month. 1250 / 218 = 5.7 MPG... What is this truck? A Full ton double wheelie??
Under any NORMAL circumstance the cost to purchase and operate an electric vehicle is more than the EQUIVALENT gas model car. End of story... However, it wont always be that way...they are catching up fast. Yes, in the mean time there is a LOT of subsidies for those who want to be leading edge... from rebates to free electricity at work (instead of a raise) to recharge them.
Somewhere in this thread somebody said that they didn't notice much change in their electric bill once they got their electric vehicle.
This got me to thinking.. Chevy web site says that the bolt will go 25 miles on a 1 hour charge using a 230v 32 amp charger. Doing the math that means that it takes 7.36 Kilowats for that 1 hour... average cost for a kilowatt across the US is 12 cents per kilowatt.. So, on average in us that means that 25 miles will cost you 12x7.36 or about 88 cents. Pretty cheap !!
With average cost of a gallon of gas being $2.90 in the us (here in NC its 2.75). Doing that math the car would get about 82 MPGe. So Ledphoot you are right on with your 80 MPGe statement.
It is curious however, that the EPA says the city/highway for the bolt is 119 MPGe combined. Id love to see that math!! I guess it all depends on what state you live in... I.e Here in NC gas averages right now about 2.75 and electricity is 11.43 per killowatt. Meanwhile the average cost of gasoline in california is $350 while electricity is 19.65 cents per kilowatt. Whew... those calculation for MPGe will vary wildly per state.
Electric cars are coming.. AND when i can afford one...maybe ill buy one ...
I agree electric is the short term future, just not economically feasible yet.
I'm an engineer and work at a company with >3000 other engineers at the site.
They installed 10 charging stations, no one used them. They are slowly removing them 1 by 1 to free up the parking spaces because we're so over crowded. Down to only 5 charging stations and shrinking.
All us nerdy cost conscious engineers have done the math and it doesn't work.
The few that do park there are the VP's with their Telsa's and the money doesn't matter to them.
Longer term hydrogen is the answer. Electric grid can't handle a completely electrical car situation.
Not to mention the charging, who's going to sit at a 'gas" station for 45 minutes to charge their car?
So unless there's a huge leap in battery technology, hydrogen is the future.
It's all good man, I am not rattled at all... It's not just about the money, I can afford to own and drive a hellcat as a daily driver if I want to. My truck is a TRUCK, not a commuter car. I use it for camping, hauling stuff, towing etc. When I need a truck I want it ready to go at all times, the intent is for it to last at least 12-15 years and not be a pile of crap before that. My last truck was a '99 RAM 2500 Diesel and I sold it in 2015 with 280K miles on it when it started going in to the more maintenance that it's worth stage of life.
Gas cost $3.65 a gallon here in the Bay Area, I was putting 22K miles a year on the truck, I now put 5K a year on it, it gets about 14 MPG thanks to the modifications I have made to it negatively impacting the once respectable 18MPG it originally delivered.
The Bolt is disposable, thus the lease. I don't have to do much of any maintenance to it, there's no oil to change and I won't likely wear out the brakes. The solo commuter lane was a big selling point for me, I hate being stopped in traffic. I like the tech and like I said I may build my own electric car for fun. They're really not all that complicated.
Battery technology and charging will improve dramatically in the next five years. Hydrogen is GREAT, we considered the Toyota Mirai, I could have made it work with my commute / available filling stations. I'd love to see Hydrogen step up, more filling stations and more vehicles. The incentive of basically free fuel for the life of the lease was enticing but the Costco deal on the Bolt was too good to pass up.
I will be building my own version of the Tesla PowerWall soon and putting up solar, I know the ROI will be ~10-12 years, but I like the idea of being basically off the grid and I like tinkering on projects like these.
As to 119MPGe? LMFAO yeah right. But then again, I am not the typical user, all of my driving is at higher speeds, with hills, curvy roads and I seriously beat the snot out of this car every single day. I've had guys in dialed up auto-x cars comment on how shocked they were that I could stick to them on Bear Creek Road... I should try to see if I can get better mileage by driving like a sane person, but then I wouldn't be LedPhoot would I? ;)
Pretty soon steering wheels will be optional or non-existent.. how do you guys feel about that?
on a side note it seems signal lights appear to have gone extinct, especially on BMW's and Mercedes.
Which is kinda weird figuring what they cost, one would think they wouldn't need to cut corners on those cars? :huh: ( pardon the pun) :P
Quote from: Brads70 on October 11, 2018, 11:27:33 PM
on a side note it seems signal lights appear to have gone extinct, especially on BMW's and Mercedes.
Which is kinda weird figuring what they cost, one would think they wouldn't need to cut corners on those cars? :huh: ( pardon the pun) :P
:haha: :haha: :haha: :)) :)) :))
Headlights used to be:
Regular beams and high beams
Now they're high beams and cornea burning beams
Quote from: wldgtx on October 12, 2018, 03:48:13 AM
Quote from: Brads70 on October 11, 2018, 11:27:33 PM
on a side note it seems signal lights appear to have gone extinct, especially on BMW's and Mercedes.
Which is kinda weird figuring what they cost, one would think they wouldn't need to cut corners on those cars? :huh: ( pardon the pun) :P
:haha: :haha: :haha: :)) :)) :))
spend 400k on a Lamborghini and the vertical doors are still manual, that is some bs right there!
Lot's of good comments here. I remember when cars came with cigar lighters in them as standard equipment--LOL. As far as electric cars go-taking over I feel is a long way off. Many good points brought up here but right now all batteries are made from Lithium I believe. The mining of Lithium is tearing up very large holes in the earth and how much Lithium is there to mine ?
The infrastructure is certainly no where near up to the task of having near enough charging stations. The driving distance is short compared to a gas engine. Do electric cars go 400 miles before you can fill them up in less then 5 minutes and get back on the road for another 400 miles ? Right now they are good for inter city commutes where you can get to work and back on one charge. I live in SC where we get hurricanes that take out power grids for days and sometimes weeks--no power no driving your electric car--YOUR STUCK. Anyway just my thoughts. Here is my electric motor !!!
JS27
:alan2cents: I guess when it comes right down to it, it doesn't really matter to me what people choose to drive . . . to each their own. My wife has always dreamed of owning a Mercedes from a very young age. So, we recently went an purchased her a 2018 Mercedes which has the start / stop feature (among a plethora of other options) and after spending some time behind the wheel and putting in some miles, neither of us are a fan of the feature itself but the fact that you have to turn it off every time you start the car is an annoyance at the very least. She does however, like the car and is happy with it but when it's time, she has already decided that she will not get another Mercedes. I also concur with her . . . for the money, we just didn't find it all that impressive. Now, on the other hand . . . for me . . . I want to know that I am driving an American muscle car . . . I want to know that I am driving a gas guzzling piece of Detroit steel and not being politely piloted around in some electric bug of a machine . . . I miss the good old days . . . the days of sliding a metal key into a metal ignition switch . . . the days of using your foot to turn on your brights . . . I want to have the windows down and hear that exhaust note . . . I want to feel the road when gripping the steering wheel . . . I want to know that I am driving. :driving:
Change is inevitable. We are all fortunate in that we have these old cars to enjoy while we are taking a spin on the 3rd rock from the sun.
I have friends that work @ Waymo.. This stuff works, I have seen it in action and it will not be long before it's on the consumer market.
https://waymo.com/
They are currently testing a Jaguar SUV that looks fairly stock and Mac trucks!
Am I the only one who hates key fobs? If I had a dollar for every time I've been working out in the yard or in the kitchen, and suddenly my horn starts honking, my trunk pops open, or the doors lock or unlock, I would have enough singles to keep a bunch of strippers happy!
Doesn't seem to take much to cause a button on them to be pressed when it's in my pocket. I need to find a shield of some sort I can keep my keys in so the signal can't travel.
Auto dimming rear view mirrors are another one, I had one go bad and leak some chemical on my console.
It makes me nervous driving my car without a spare. Car came with a little compressor full of fix a flat, which will do me no good if I have a blowout.
And one feature I miss is the ability to diagnose many problems myself without a reader of some sort to pull codes!
To start with I have to thank Cody for starting this thread that i have spent much time on.
My 2c is that Electric cars are not the future. They are the current stopgap for what is next. IMOP it will be hydrogen fuel cells.
As there are a lot of pluses for electric. The minuses are a long way from being resolved. Key for me is the required charge time. Not conducive for long travels.
Now take and see how long the battery power lasts in the dead of winter in the midwest. Heater has to be heated v/s the byproduct of combustion.
Next is just food for thought. Every positive comment states how efficient they are. Has anyone considered how many millions of gallons of diesel fuel is used to mine the minerals to produce the batteries. I have wondered how long the RTI is for every battery powered car out there.
Not to mention the massive destruction of landscapes mining it. Oh well most of that is 3rd world countries that dont count...
Mike
:iagree:
The pollution factor is approx even , the cost of building & disposing of electric cars is about equal to fuel cars , the electrical power grid is often not adequate now , it will take some amazing electrical advances to support charging 100& electric vehicles , I do lke the ful Tq feature of electric though ! Heat will be a huge concern with electric cars also , while many live in moderate climates most of Canada is not moderate & batteries use a lot of power to make heat & do not release the charge as well when they are cold which has to cut the driving range in 1/2
The Start stop dash buttons have proven to be problematic to some degree in that it is hard to know when the car is running , some have died as the car was left running in the garage overnight as there is not key to force you to shut it off when you get out .
Last month I tried to boost a dead car from a hybrid , the hybrid wil not run at idle & there really was not safe place to connect the jumpers
When I started as a locksmith everything was mechanical , not nothing is everything is computers , the cost of the keys has gone up over 100x where a typical key was $2 now it is closer to 250+ & all of the special equipment needed to duplicate a key nevermind create a new key when there are none is crazy . :alan2cents:
And to take this a different route. The lack of real world driving skills. Normal every day driving all the assists are awsome. Now put a car in a slide that is above its control factor. All of us out there that have had cars capable of immediately killing you with the go pedal have learned (or should have) how to handle adverse slide conditions.
On and off I've been reading about the Fisker eMotion mainly because they claim over 400 mile range and an 80% charge in 1 minute. Pretty impressive if it's true.
I agree with YellowThumper, hydrogen fuel cells; not too economically feasible at this time but there's got to be a reason why the major Japanese automakers are investing so much into it.
Edited out link.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 13, 2018, 07:28:34 AM
On and off I've been reading about the Fisker eMotion mainly because they claim over 400 mile range and an 80% charge in 1 minute. Pretty impressive if it's true.
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/987820/Fisker-Emotion-electric-car-solid-state-battery-range-charging
I agree with YellowThumper, hydrogen fuel cells; not too economically feasible at this time but there's got to be a reason why the major Japanese automakers are investing so much into it.
Talk about a website that clearly doesn't want you to view content.... "Continue and Accept All" I don't think so...
RE: Fisker eMotion. Here's another website that doesn't ask to "Continue and Accept All". That one had the most current date, this one's from Jan. 2018. The car is pretty cool looking too (IMHO) with all the latest tech.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1113815_fisker-solid-state-battery-promises-500-mile-range-1-minute-charging
Granted it seems that electric is the future but the lack of battery technology is really what is hampering it. Lithium polymer batteries are a fire risk, lithium ion batteries are good but cumbersome, there are new lithium LiCo batteries which have higher voltages but in the end all of these have serious shortcomings with longevity. The recharge rates or (C) are getting better which will help with recharge times but it somewhat affects cell longevity as well.
Hydrogen would be great if it didn't take more power to make than what you get out of it.
Additionally, the power grid's of today are totally inadequate although several utilities are building nextgen IGP (Integrated Grid Platforms) of the future. So hopefully we will gain better efficiencies in the near future.
Ultimately we need to figure out if the power generated for said electric cars derives from cleaner sources otherwise what's the use? If we use fossil fuels to generate > 60% of that electricity we are headed in the wrong direction.
This is a multi-faceted problem which needs to serious attention to address.
:wrenching: Wow!!! so many numbers thrown around; makes my head hurt :bricks: One thing I know is that when it comes time to replace one of those batteries in those electric cars better get ready to through anywhere from $7,000 to $10,000 at it and not every service station can service those types of cars, they need specialized techs to do the job. $$$
The batteries should last quite a while but yeah they're spendy if you gotta replace one.. I would most likely lease any electric vehicle I use, always under warranty / maintenance, turn it in in 3 years and get a new one. The tech updates too fast to make buying one a long term deal.
:iagree:
In Panama no battery will last 3 years most won't make 2 years , not paying to replace all the cells every 2 years :Thud:
Quote from: HP_Cuda on October 13, 2018, 01:01:17 PM
Granted it seems that electric is the future but the lack of battery technology is really what is hampering it. Lithium polymer batteries are a fire risk, lithium ion batteries are good but cumbersome, there are new lithium LiCo batteries which have higher voltages but in the end all of these have serious shortcomings with longevity. The recharge rates or (C) are getting better which will help with recharge times but it somewhat affects cell longevity as well.
Hydrogen would be great if it didn't take more power to make than what you get out of it.
Additionally, the power grid's of today are totally inadequate although several utilities are building nextgen IGP (Integrated Grid Platforms) of the future. So hopefully we will gain better efficiencies in the near future.
Ultimately we need to figure out if the power generated for said electric cars derives from cleaner sources otherwise what's the use? If we use fossil fuels to generate > 60% of that electricity we are headed in the wrong direction.
This is a multi-faceted problem which needs to serious attention to address.
I agree... just about every car company is now producing or planning on producing an all electric car. BUT i agree with you in that is that really good for us? Can the current power grid handle recharging all of these vehicles? What percentage of our electricity comes from burning coal? Meanwhile our government continue to give $7-$10 thousand dollar tax credits to encourage buying them. Tax credits that only the wealthier people can take advantage...doesnt seem right !
They could also lighten up new cars by deleting some other unused features these days. No need for spare tires, mirrors or gauges to name a few.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on October 20, 2018, 07:57:11 AM
They could also lighten up new cars by deleting some other unused features these days. No need for spare tires, mirrors or gauges to name a few.
Just cause people rarely use them doesn't mean you can remove them... How are women gonna check their makeup....
Quote from: YellowThumper on October 12, 2018, 09:06:22 PM
To start with I have to thank Cody for starting this thread that i have spent much time on.
My 2c is that Electric cars are not the future. They are the current stopgap for what is next. IMOP it will be hydrogen fuel cells.
As there are a lot of pluses for electric. The minuses are a long way from being resolved. Key for me is the required charge time. Not conducive for long travels.
Now take and see how long the battery power lasts in the dead of winter in the midwest. Heater has to be heated v/s the byproduct of combustion.
Next is just food for thought. Every positive comment states how efficient they are. Has anyone considered how many millions of gallons of diesel fuel is used to mine the minerals to produce the batteries. I have wondered how long the RTI is for every battery powered car out there.
Not to mention the massive destruction of landscapes mining it. Oh well most of that is 3rd world countries that dont count...
Mike
As an update to my previous statement I read what appears to be a thorough article (not one that just states what I want to hear). It noted that the average break even mark from prior fuel usage mining and producing the batteries is about 31,000 miles.
Unfortunately I cannot find its link again.
The break even point depends on several factors, for me it may be considerably less considering that I swapped a low MPG truck for an electric vehicle, which should be factored in to the equation. I am considering switching to one of my motorcycles as a primary commute vehicle and just driving the truck when weather is poor once I turn the Bolt in at the end of it's lease, to go without any payments for a while. We'll see if I am still man enough for that in a couple of years @ 50 :)
I am still intrigued with the idea of making my own electric car, seems like a fun project and there should be no shortage of components in a couple of years.
Gas only for our family we love our gas hogs, and as far as classics nothing sounds better than a Big Block Mopar with old school header exhaust rolling down the highway at 90 MPH. 8)