E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

One thing that seems to be very mysterious about these cars is what to do with $hitty interior panels. Scratchy, faded, caulked up stuff. There's not a lot of information on the web about what to do. Opinions range from "just deal with them as-is" to "can never be fixed" to "replace them" to "look for original panels in great condition." Essentially, there's no consistency. Let alone, not much pictures of someone trying and documenting what happens.

Today on eBodies FB group, I learned of a method by Jeff S on how he restores faded, chalked, and scratched interior panels. We talked today for awhile, and something then clicked for me--"This sounds a lot like auto body work" which is something I'm pretty good at. My mental block was initially envisioning spot-repairing the panel--all those little scratches, scuffs, imperfections, chalked areas, and THEN and then worrying about how to "blend it all in together" back to the original grain profile. This seems daunting if not even impossible. I don't even think an interior specialist could do this how I was thinking about it. For example, JustDashes wraps a layer over your panel (which is no small feat either).

What clicked for me is the fact that the process I am about to use (thanks again to Jeff) treats the panel as a clean slate. This means everything needs to be retextured. But that also means that everything can be fixed. Texture of course is the elephant in the room, but if you have texture that is close enough, then it doesn't matter.

I wanted to get this thread in place because I will soon start adding to it in a week or so. Tag along with me for my journey of restoring Ebody interior panels, because from what I've seen and the process that I just learned, I think it can be made to look at least 8/10. I'm doing much more than then the "scuff and shoot" here fellas. I'm aiming to do something that is show-capable. Just note that I'm signing up for 8/10, but if you guys know me I always aim to exceed my goal.  :waving:

I will be restoring (in order):

1) Driver's rear interior panel
2) Driver and passenger seatbacks
3) Driver and passenger door panels.

I already have most of the materials needed. Several materials are on order....and it's all the good stuff. :)

Stay tuned. Failures are just as important as successes. We all learn from it either way.

 :popcorn:

OK, here's a teaser.

I took a guitar pick and "strummed' 4 separate areas of the driver's rear panel. Good news: I was able to reach shiny plastic underneath without too much effort. Bad news: it's pretty much the whole panel that needs sanding.

Applying a flexible filler by hand is going to be pretty stupid to do on this panel. I am currently researching what is similar to poly-flex but can be used in sprayable form. What we want to do here is when I get to sanding all the disintegrated plastic off that we want to build up the thickness back to near where it was stock.

Most panels are going to need sprayable filler treatment. I can reveal shinny spots in everything I tried tonight.

I'm getting more excited for this challenge, can't you tell? :)

 :popcorn:

Cant wait to see what your'e gonna do for texture!

Removed the piece and took an initial thickness measurement.

First step begins with hitting it over, and over, and over again with 180 until it doesn't leave much "powder" anymore. You want to get rid of all the white. This is about a 2 hour task for this piece. Very labor intensive.

I started off using blocks, but not needed. I eventually just used my fingers/hand at even pressure. The sand paper will clog up in a hurry, so keep a compressor near by for cleaning the panel and your sandpaper. Also, absolutely wear a mask. You will definitely want a roll of 180 available, not just sheets.

All those scratches are simply just into the top deteriorated section. They will all sand away.

Scratch at it with your nail if you're not sure. Once you can't easily leave a scratch, you're done. This panel sucks because there's just lots of nooks and crannies.

First picture shows a finished section. You cannot leave a scratch, and you can see that some undisturbed (non-chalked) texture was left behind. Leave it!

Sand the flange areas to assure no faded as occurred on those. In my case, there was some.

Areas that were tucked under the seat are solid. Just needs a good cleaning.

Panel is finished and is ready for cleaning and degreasing. Maybe a hot bath with some warm soap. That will be in the next update.

Panel looks fantastic right now. It is clean, solid, smooth, and ready for what's next.

Looks like I took off .3 millimeters. After 2-3 coats of semi-reduced primer with flex agent, texture, and dye, that will all come back. Non-issue.


Have a home brew!

 :popcorn:

Impressed so far... 2 hrs on one panel!  Yes you deserve that beer indeed. 

Surprised .... that there was any grain left after sanding down to good plastic.  Im curious what it would look like if it were just sprayed w color now?  The paint i used on mine really hid a lot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What surprised/stood out me is an American using a mic set for MM!  :))    I still use inches unless forced to with a drawing . Even then I'd rather convert it all to inches. Must be showing my age? LOL

I don't think the texture will be visible in the area's you sanded but if the panel is junk otherwise what have you got to loose? When I worked as a moldmaker I remember sending down mold cavities to Windsor area to get that same texture acid etched into the mold. At that time there was only a handful of places that did it in North America.

I'm still waiting to see how the same texture will be replaced on the now smooth panel  :huh: :popcorn:

Very interested in this process. I wonder how well this can be done to repair the dreaded speaker holes in my vert panels...

Practiced a little bit with the texturing today.

A little larger profile than the factory. But definitely acceptable and close. Pictures are zoomed to close up view.

I may take another test run, but testing with a little chip is different than spraying a whole panel. I feel confident in the method that I think I'm ready to execute when the time comes.

Keep in mind this texturing system that I am trying is pictured as a "worse" example below. I put a coat of Satin black paint over it, which will will make the texture a little less "sharp". I will eventually be using dye, which will not do this.

I knew from the start that texturing will never be exact like OEM, but the goal here is unless you're looking for it, you shouldn't/wouldn't know.

Now that it's mostly cured it looks even better!

What is the "texturing system" you are using?  How did you make that black textured example?

Quote from: larry4406 on October 25, 2020, 03:35:52 AM
What is the "texturing system" you are using?  How did you make that black textured example?

I'd like to know this too.

not sure what he is using but there are texture paints available. I bought this one but haven't tried it yet. This one should give an organisol type texture.

Seat backs went a lot faster!

I musta missed the texturing process (on the black samples)  too  :huh:

Quote from: larry4406 on October 25, 2020, 03:35:52 AM
What is the "texturing system" you are using?  How did you make that black textured example?

 :popcorn:

He hasn't shared what the secret sauce is yet.... :popcorn:

I didn't want to share the process until I actually do it for reals. :)

I will post all materials next week.

I will continue to post the process when I get to it. :)

Yes, texturing is done by a spray and knocking it down.

Sprayed my chip with herbs. Too bad I ordered 6 cans of this shit, because I want to send 5 back.

Terrible match. Not even close. I sprayed the chip 5 times. Will see how good their return policy is. I will offer to keep the can I used for a sample spray out but hopefully the rest is good to return. See first pic.

Went to local shop and they are currently building me a sample. They got it close by eye in the shop. Need to spray out on another sample this weekend and then bring it back for fine tuning. The first revision should look damn close. See pic 2.

Third pic is what my next chip looks like before knocking dow and right after texturing. This chip will have finer texture vs the first chip, getting super close to original after it cures and after a fine knockdown.

I think you would get different results with Herb's if you sprayed it directly on the original panel :alan2cents:

So far only 1 of 3 panels require filler of any sort. I'm not even entirely sure these spots needed it. But the goal like I said is 8/10. I do not play guessing games.

Clean. Tape around damage/knicks

Spray adhesion promotor. Wait 5-10 mins.

Fill. Press in hard. Remove tape.

Will post materials used later.

Quote from: anlauto on October 27, 2020, 05:43:04 PM
I think you would get different results with Herb's if you sprayed it directly on the original panel :alan2cents:

I'm mostly a betting man, and I'm willing to take you up on that bet. I talked about that the n the car with the fiancé today. I am 95% sure regardless it is off.

I'll post newer results if it changes, but the outcome of my experiment is neither of us are right.

Spraying on an original "solid" surface does not make it as dark as my prep chip. Good news, right?

However, it is still darker than stock. No only that, but one important note is that the sheen is removed. Herbs is more closer to a flat profile.

Left strip of pic is taped off original non-disturbed/non-faded piece.
Right side is herbs sprayed right on undisturbed piece.

You can see my chip above that looks way more off than either...

So neither are wrong. We're down into dying matching territory. I have the ability to choose white texture spray over black. I'm still not convinced.

Trial and error here folks.

Honestly, I don't understand who the market herbs paint is for. You can only buy quality white or black panels. You absolutely cannot expect this stuff to transform it back to the way it was. Either way herbs is going to be wrong for quality restoration. No person has a 70s ebody that has faded, but NOT chalked panels.

Hey, many people dont mind spraying over damage. Burnt orange herbs paint may work pretty good for that but it will never look perfect.

I'm aiming for something much better.

I'm on a journey...tag along.

I'll agree to disagree, and I certainly won't hijack your thread....but I've had absolutely fantastic results with every colour of Herb's paints I've used....but maybe I'm not as fussy as you :drinkingbud:

I went through and posted results which is more than most will do. Herbs is wrong for me when trying to match original pieces after retexturing. Its not correct even on original pieces, but does appear closer. It's too dark and has no sheen in either situation. I suspect it will be the same spraying over new black or white pieces, which your photo doesn't necessarily show.

I just dyed (painted) many interior panels on my 71 road runner with the tan paint listed from Herbs and it worked great. I recommend you test spray for correct color match on the back of the panels as they are usually not faded and close to correct, of course they are 50 years old.

Quote from: mopar jack on October 27, 2020, 08:22:23 PM
I just dyed (painted) many interior panels on my 71 road runner with the tan paint listed from Herbs and it worked great. I recommend you test spray for correct color match on the back of the panels as they are usually not faded and close to correct, of course they are 50 years old.

That's what the pictures show. Sprayed on an area that got zero sun, which is same color as backside.

Either way, doesn't matter. I am painting over a black or white retextured surface.

Herbs will not work.

Many will be spraying white or black Metro (or injection molded panels). Herbs will not work, at least for this specific color either for the same reasons!

Let me say it this way. Spraying herbs DIRECTLY on your factory colored stuff seems to be close (still not exact --again, it's a darker shade or two, and it doesn't have any sheen). I am not spraying on factory panted stuff. I am restoring the panels. This is a restoration thread fellas, not a "spray paint on stuff and see what happens thread" :)

This thread isn't for people that want to see results of spraying dye on damaged panels. I do not do that type of work. This thread is finding a method to make panels complete and solid again, retexturing and releveling AND with correct color on top the textured substrate.

We wouldn't need this thread if it's about "Can herbs dye match when I spray if over my current color"? The answer is "mostly", but the answer is "NO" when you retexture!

My textured chip resembles the exact materials and processes that I will use to recreate these panels. The chip is what matters, not the panels.

If I get the chip to show 95% or better match, then we are there fellas. Right now, herbs is not even in the same ballpark. Herbs will NOT work for this restoration process, which is the first posted that I've seen any mopar site.

Stay tuned.

This is the best case I can do with my texturing.

I will spray it with paint shop's plastic/vinyl mix tomorrow to see how it compares to "herbs"

@kawahonda (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/kawahonda_2011), Since english is not my first language, speaking of the texture, exactly what do you mean by "knocking it down"?

https://www.semproducts.com/product/texture-coating/39853#product-videos

Quote from: mopar jack on October 25, 2020, 11:48:48 AM
not sure what he is using but there are texture paints available. I bought this one but haven't tried it yet. This one should give an organisol type texture.

Been busy.

Is that what SEM calls the "inverted" grain?

Quote from: kawahonda on October 30, 2020, 04:45:30 PM
Been busy.

Ebody panels use an inverted, or sunk in texture. It is impossible to replicate it as I've mentioned.  SEM instructional video will also imply it.

You just want something that's close. By close I mean anything that is "fine" will work. My last post showed the lightest drop texture yet where I didn't sand much. It's a little too fine, but not far off. e-body panels are flat...you will want to sand a little bit more during "drop" texture phase...somewhere inbetween this chip and last chip. it will never look right, keep in mind. But you will retain original panels...Texture isn't noticeable unless you look for it.

More importantly, I wanted you guys to see an amazing mix of the latest Burnt Orange. Can't get closer than that!

The last chip is the closest possible you will ever get. But keep in mind that's a 3" chip. There is simply just a "chance" occurrence when using a rattle can when spraying the whole thing.

Stay tuned. I will provide more instructional things. You guys are seeing the sausage making.

I have no problem right now saying that texture won't match OEM. I've accepted and stated this from the start. Most won't care. You keep your original panels and you save thousands of dollars and I think I'd get plenty of thumb's up stating that....

All panels are finished.

Dry fitted the panel I straightened on car. Seems fixed.

I'm in the process of cleaning right now.

If I stay on schedule, then these will be in epoxy tomorrow.

Texture Monday

Dye on Tuesday.

I am worn out.

Quote from: kawahonda on October 31, 2020, 03:02:31 PM

I am worn out.

You will be, but the panels wont!  :)
Great work!

Adhesion promotor.

PPG reduced DP epoxy, one medium coat.

Progress is looking really good.  Can't wait to see the finished product!

I am interested (as are others) as to how the texturing comes out.  I think uniform texture will be more than acceptable for all but the purest.

My 71 vert has white panels which are badly chalked.  Years ago I scrubbed them with a steel wool pad and soap and water and they are smooth with near zero texture.

Today will be texture day!

I'll post my two texture samples below.

I personally prefer sample #2. It has finer texture with only a very light knockdown.

Sample #1 has larger texture, but it also has a more aggressive knockdown.

A more aggressive knockdown will create more of a sense of "flatness" like OEM, but at a loss because you are making the texture/droplets larger by sanding them down more.

With texture spray, you can only have one. You want it fine and semi-flat, or do you want it larger and flat.

Others thoughts?

I'd honestly consider both very acceptable if it all looks uniform. But I still learn on something like #2.

It all looks the same (even oem) from 12" or more away.

I personally like #2.  Just my two cents.....

 :iagree: #2...

Thank guys, #2 it is.

In-fact, there is no possible way I will get #1. I may have actually sprayed FINER than #2, which I suppose is a good thing since the Mopar OE panels have fine texture. This is really good news.

Proceedure:

1) Hold can easily 16"+ away
2) You are spraying droplets, not paint.
3) Do not worry about "coverage". This was hard for me to get over, because it's very unlike painting. If you want to cover up the substrate, that simply means more coats. Coats is your cover, not the volume!
4) NEVER spray on the panel without blasting the can away first a half second. Remember this every time you pick up the spray.
5) When you get near the bottom of the spray, the texture gets splattery. If you're good, you can use this can when starting the first coat on a new panel. The very first coat is mainly for coverage, so if it's a little splattery that's OK.

I would recommend using a gun that attaches to the spray can. I had to go left handed halfway through because my finger turned to jello. What you see took 4.5 cans. 3-4 coats.

The first picture is start

Second picture is after 3 coats.

One other thing you can do when the can gets low is to place a panel horizontally, and just spray at it. The droplets will fall creating a nice base texture. This is a way to help use all of your material because at $17 a can, you want to use as much as possible.

The beautiful thing about this, is that if you mess up, you can simply sand more during the knockdown phase, and re splatter it.

I have a little more than half a can left for "touch ups".

Make sure to mask the lower side sections of the seat back because they are not supposed to be textured.

Some other miscellaneous shots.

Starting to knockdown.

The texture looks really good. Probably better than my latest chip!

Finished the drop sanding.

Tomorrow I'll check it over closely and perhaps start spraying. I don't like the idea of spraying this all at once. My do half tomorrow.

What are your plans for the kick panels and "A'' pillar trim ?  Wouldn't you want them to match ?

Those are in great shape. Unfaded.

Paint matches rear of panels...took 3 trips.

Painted panels should match remaining panels is expectation.

Btw, nothing perfectly matched on colored ebody interior.

Here's an example of non perfect factory match.

Here's my paint chip with a pillar trim and kick trim.

New paint will be right at home. This is the benefit of matching your paint...

The colour looks decent, but I was wondering about the grain where the kick panel meets the door panel especially, wouldn't you want that to match ? :dunno:

I doubt it will be noticeable...

Quote from: anlauto on November 03, 2020, 07:10:13 PM
The colour looks decent, but I was wondering about the grain where the kick panel meets the door panel especially, wouldn't you want that to match ? :dunno:

With no other options and the color match being spot on after 3 tries, I agree that it wont be very noticeable unless you specifically go looking for it. Remember he said from 12" away, it all kind of all blends together. How often are your eyes 12" away from that door to kick panel interface....

I think you will be satisfied with the results ESPECIALLY since you did it yourself!

Pictures speak louder than words

Some last pics for you guys.

Looks great. This would be of special interest to convertible owners I'd guess that are in need of non existent replacements

Process:

Sand chalked pieces with 180 grit. If you can scratch it with a fingernail or a guitar pick, it needs to be sanded off.
Use a flexible filler for any scratches/mars that you can feel with your finger. Mine only had 4-5 little spots across 5 panels. Adhesion promote areas before filling.
SEM plastic soap and scotch pad and nylon brush to clean panels. Rinse with water.
Wipe down with wax and grease remover. Don't get it too wet, just enough for a good wipe.
Spray adhesive promotor. Wait minimum 5-10 minutes. With Bulldog, the spray is good for 24 hours.
1 coat reduced PPG DP Epoxy. I let mine dry overnight.
3-4 light coats of NAPA rock guard (texture). I would recommend going with the white spray if you have anything other than black panels. Look at my earlier posts for tips on spraying.
Let texture dry overnight, although a few hours will be fine.
Lightly hit with 320 grit to create texture profile
Clean with tack-free cloth, no need to clean with any solvent
3-4 coats of color spraying. Add additional spot coating if needed. I used PPG Elastomeric "OneChoice" which is available for mixing at any paint shop. DO NOT TRUST any "Dye" from a can for a match when you change your substrate (such as what this process does).

Build paint chips like I did. Your paint shop should be happy to give you sample.

Doing 5 panels took me about 25 hours of time and roughly about $250 of materials, not including my sunken cost of 5 cans of Herb's spray which I didn't use. I also had some PPG Epoxy on-hand and a roll of 180 to use.

Quote from: kawahonda on October 23, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
Removed the piece and took an initial thickness measurement.

What's the thickness measurement now ?

Not a reliable measurement, because that area ranges from 2.86-3.2 right now (it probably ranged before too). I suspected that all the material removed is built right back up! :)

A couple before and after

are seat backs and arm-rests/pockets interchangeable? Because I have no idea which is what anymore.

Thank you for this write up. That will be perfect for the masses with average cars who want them to hit the next level.
:cheers:

Quote from: kawahonda on November 04, 2020, 06:41:41 PM
are seat backs and arm-rests/pockets interchangeable? Because I have no idea which is what anymore.

Seat Backs and arm rest YES, pull cups NO. The location of the lock lever will determine left or right.  :alan2cents:

Thanks guys. Let me know if I missed any details.

Here is the picture of the texture spray that I used. As mentioned (one more shout out to Jeff S). Most should use the white spray since it is easier to cover over. I used a quart of elastomeric paint and went down to the last drop with 5 pieces with the black texture spray! I think you'd probably still use quite a lot with white too, but I think white puts you in a better place with potentially less material.

With knocking down, you can see I chose to go light. The more you go, the more it will "flatten" and look like wall texture. Remember chip #1 vs chip #2? You can't mimic inverted texture (OEM), but I'd argue even if it's raised texture, as long as it's fine (which mine is) then that's where you want to be. The smoother the texture, the more "glossy" the look and out of place it may be....

I'm really happy with how these came out, and I believe I exceeded 8/10. These could go in a show car. What I'm anticipating is how they will look inside of the car. With as much work as I did on matching the paint, I am not worried at all. The sheen is perfect as well since I did a light knockdown.

I was loosing sleep last night because I was worried I knocked down too much, which would create "shiny" panels. Turns out, they have a perfect satin-semi-gloss sheen just like the originals. Looking 6" away is what doesn't matter here in the big picture.

I was also happy to find out that zero defects showed up. This is because I followed good process and used quality materials and put the time in. They look brand new.

I think they look fantastic!

Thanks again for posting your progress and recipe for success.

Great job

Installed.

Looks great!
The lack of color matching these interiors has always been something that stands out to me. And not in a good way...

It's true. The dash is a different color than the carpet which is a different color than the trim which is a different color than the seats. Even the trim pieces can differ!

I'm still getting used to it....I was used to "brown". Now it's all of a sudden orange. LOL

Looks really nice, good job!   I'm curious as to how durable it will be with use?

I will definitely update you guys on durability. You can scratch it probably, but you have to really try.

This would be the same with metro or other aftermarket panels which you'd have to paint anyways.  :dunno:

Looks fantastic

Guess I know what I need to do to my own Burnt Orange interior

Although labor intensive, it certainly is a cheaper option than buying new panels  :dunno:

Looks awesome! Thanks for doing this and posting the process.   :cheers:

Looks great!
Only nerds like us will see a difference if getting close.

Quote from: soundcontrol on November 06, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
Looks great!
Only nerds like us will see a difference if getting close.

I agree!  Only the purists out there will notice it and meanwhile the OP gets a beautiful looking interior at a fraction of the cost.

And retaining the original panels too!  :)

You can refinish these as much as you'd like.

They don't reproduce my door panels (injection molded).

A guy in a FB paint forum I joined tried to paint something, just industrial paint, and got this surface, looks pretty close to our panels.
He was going for a smooth paint...  :)

Looks awesome!  :twothumbsup:

Quote from: kawahonda on November 05, 2020, 05:47:38 PM
I will definitely update you guys on durability. You can scratch it probably, but you have to really try.

This would be the same with metro or other aftermarket panels which you'd have to paint anyways.  :dunno:

Fiancé and I did our backseat inspection.

You be the judge.

I'll take this over metro panels any day.

Second photo should how close I got texture to rear panel that wasn't redone (passengers rear).

Anyone who tells you factory panels cannot be redone doesn't know what they are talking about...send them to me.

Quote from: soundcontrol on November 16, 2020, 02:36:51 PM
A guy in a FB paint forum I joined tried to paint something, just industrial paint, and got this surface, looks pretty close to our panels.
He was going for a smooth paint...  :)

Yep....been there and done that...

Both are incorrect. He drop sanded too much in the left image and WAY too much in the right image.

None of those matters if you do every single piece, but if you're trying to get close to other OEM panels, you definitely will want to follow my methods. Shoot fine, shoot 3-4 light and distant coats (minimum) to match OE texture density. He went heavy on the drop sand.

You posted a good example of a texture looking like what anyone's interior house looks like. You'll be upset if that's how it came out to be. I would....it can be done better!

I'm happy to elaborate and help with anyone that has further questions and help. This is not difficult, but it does require some investment. Less than buying new aftermarket stuff though. Like I said, my texture is not perfect. You cannot get it perfect to OE---it's impossible. but you can give it the right density, sheen, and man, it's pretty hard to notice in the end...

Save your originals.

Quote from: kawahonda on November 20, 2020, 12:20:59 AM
Anyone who tells you factory panels cannot be redone doesn't know what they are talking about...send them to me.

Are you seriously offering this service?

 @kawahonda (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/kawahonda_2011)  it's been a year since the reveal (Reply# 64) and I wonder how they held up through the seasons as in winter storage, summer cruising. Did they fade, get scratched or anything else happen to them. Any update would be appreciated.