I don't have the tools or time to build my own subframe connectors and I wanted a quick fix.
I'm going to leave the name of the company I bought these from out of this post.
My first mock-up they seemed so incredibly off I am sent pictures with measurements to the company and asked them to confirm that they sent me the right ones. They said they did and I needed to cut them up to get them to fit.
I know I cut too much in one area but they have to be twisted pretty hard to get them to fit outside of the torsion bar.
Is it me or does this look horrible? Maybe these are for a Camaro
Thanks
I cut off the end that's hanging off and angled it so it looks way better but I don't have any pictures of that right now.
Thanks
I usually notch the middle & reweld it so it sits tight to the floor
Those don't look terrible, from what I can see they need slight trimming and they should fit. I hate the dang things but they do firm the car up.
I think they look ugly period. :barf:
US Cartool has the least ugly ones I think. PITA to install. I would not do a car without them after installing on my convertible, made such a difference. Unless its a OE resto, of course.
Quote from: anlauto on March 25, 2017, 11:18:01 AM
I think they look ugly period. :barf:
Maybe, but not as ugly as doors that don't fit/close , warped sheet metal etc.... :alan2cents:
I get it for your OE type restorations though. :cheers:
Since were talking frame connectors, what is the easiest, fastest way to get U.S. Cartool connectors spot on ready to weld on?
Has anyone ever made cardboard templates of them and then modify their brand new U.S. Cartool connectors so they're spot on ready to weld?
Or is there a faster way?
Maybe add a video CODY to how to do it section you have. :idea:
They are not easy to install and to make them look right it will take a lot of work. But if you're handy with a welder and have a few days to work on it then you can make them look pretty good. It was easy to start from scratch and make them.
Also remember you have to account for the e-brake cable.
Quote from: Topcat on March 25, 2017, 04:52:59 PM
Since were talking frame connectors, what is the easiest, fastest way to get U.S. Cartool connectors spot on ready to weld on?
Has anyone ever made cardboard templates of them and then modify their brand new U.S. Cartool connectors so they're spot on ready to weld?
Or is there a faster way?
Maybe add a video CODY to how to do it section you have. :idea:
Since these are more universal and fits both Cuda and Challenger type of SFC, yes they need trimmed to fit best. Challengers are longer than Cudas, so you will have a couple extra inches to deal with on a Plymouth.
Have you looked down the length of the connector to confirm they are twisted? Twist is not a deal breaker to rigidity, but I can appreciate you wanting them to look square. If they are twisted, they should be capable of being twisted back, but it may be a bear to do so.
The saddle fit seems to be a concern as well. if you have not cleaned all the undercoating off the seating area, they will be tight and not want to slide in easily. You could also spread the saddle some to gain working clearance and then clamps them back together for welding.
Or is the issue about the saddle not seating all the way up? If the connector tube is up flush against the floor but the saddle is not all the way up, then that may be as far up as they get.
That looks so good Cody, like it came that way.
Wow awesome job Cody! A talent I don't have . . . :worship:
As I said i notch the connector where the bend needs to be & to lowest point of the floor & bend it to get it as tight as possible to the floor & reweld the notch , why be content with them hanging low at all ?
I would install them after blasting the body.
Looks like they are making them differently now. the last set I used from them had the saddle mounted on top of the tube.
You always could angle cut the tube to match the frame curve and totally eliminate the saddle. That is how brads70 did his. That also would tuck them up tighter.
Brads70 SFCs are the best!!! I'd like to buy a set from him someday
:cool:
Also considering the Magnum Force twin-tube design... lowest to the floor design, perhaps.
A local Mopar only guy installed SFC on my Charger and I just had them done on my Cuda too. I cannot tell you how much this improves the overall feel and fit of the car. It is so much more solid and the everything fits (doors, hood, glass, etc) so much better. He cuts into the front and rear frame rail, install 1x2" steel tube and welds them in. For e-bodies, he cuts and welds the SFC to better match the floor pan. These are not attached to the floor pan at all, but stay nice and tight.
Quote from: Topcat on March 25, 2017, 04:52:59 PM
Since were talking frame connectors, what is the easiest, fastest way to get U.S. Cartool connectors spot on ready to weld on?
Has anyone ever made cardboard templates of them and then modify their brand new U.S. Cartool connectors so they're spot on ready to weld?
Or is there a faster way?
Maybe add a video CODY to how to do it section you have. :idea:
Mock the connector in place but use 1/2" spacers at each end to lower it 1/2".... Then use a contour gauge laid flat against the connector to capture the contour then slide it down & scribe it to the connector, repeat as needed....
I used XV motorsport subframe connectors. They contour with the floor. I used a plasma cutter to make the fit better. It is way faster and easier than using a grinder. I got mine in in only a few hours that way.
I bought the conformal ones from Mopar Dave and used a Sharpie marker , 4" grinder and the MKI eyeball. The left one I must have had up and down 10 times to trim but the rt one only needed 6-7 tries and they were welded the length of the floor. They make an real difference and I also added the US Car Tool torque boxes as well. They're a bit of a PITA, but they work and you'd have to get on your knees to see them as well. :cheers:
I have been using 1x2".125 wall contoured to the floor for years this is cheap as well , the tubing can be bought for $20 or so
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on June 22, 2017, 06:28:38 AM
I have been using 1x2".125 wall contoured to the floor for years this is cheap as well , the tubing can be bought for $20 or so
:iagree: I took Neil's advice when I built mine. I had the US cartool ones but sold them, too much work to fit IMO. Adding that 1" tubing every 6" or so REALLY made a big difference. I had them all carved out to fit my car. I then solidly clamped them in my milling machine vice and with a big adjustable wrench was still able to twist it back and forth somewhat. When I then added the 1" tubing it surprised me how much of a difference it made. Well worth the extra effort I'd say! If one was so inclined you could do what I did then add/weld to the side pieces that fit the floor so it looks like the US cartool ones. This would be stronger still..... I would bet mine ( with the 1" tubing) have let twist than the US cartool ones.
You don't need any special equipment to replicate what I did, just a drill and a disc grinder would work. That and about $20 in material! :)
They really do make a big difference, really noticeable when jacking up the side of the car. Best $20 bucks you will spend IMO! Not much point in adding bigger torsion bars to improve handling when the entire chassis is a big torsion bar.
I put a slice into the 1x2 at the lowest point of the floor bend it to match the floor profile & weld the slice back together , I use a wider plate at the front weld it to the 1x2 & weld the plate beside the torsion bar socket then taper the rear to match the end of the factory frame rail & weld around that .
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on June 22, 2017, 09:34:16 AM
I put a slice into the 1x2 at the lowest point of the floor bend it to match the floor profile & weld the slice back together , I use a wider plate at the front weld it to the 1x2 & weld the plate beside the torsion bar socket then taper the rear to match the end of the factory frame rail & weld around that .
This very similar to what I did (see my 3rd pic above). :wrenching:
The ones made by Mancini racing fit so bad they actually gave me my money back and let me keep the them.
I've liked all my parts for Mancini racing but do not buy their subframe connectors IMO. It was only a hundred bucks for their pair, but about 6 hours to make them work.
Since I recommended those, I have to apologize about the poor fit and intensive labor. I'm glad to hear they refunded your money.
:bigthumb:
Anybody run the Hotchkis ones? I also considered the US Tool ones. But after installing their upper apron braces I decided to pass on them. For me it was very difficult to weld the heavy steel to the sheetmetal without blowing holes in it everywhere. By the time I felt I was getting good penetration in the heavy steel it was to hot for the sheetmetal.
I would like to run some but the car is already done so I'm looking for the least amount of destruction. The Hotchkis bolt into the rear spring mounts and weld to the torsion bar crossmember only.
I would do what I always do $20 worth of tube & bend to match the floor contour & weld both ends .
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on June 30, 2017, 05:31:47 PM
I would do what I always do $20 worth of tube & bend to match the floor contour & weld both ends .
I was thinking about what you said. I think that's the route I'm going with also. No sense spending 400 on something I can build for 20-40 bucks. Mine will probably look nicer anyway.
Couple of questions
I'm curious of how you connect the rear. :takepicture:
On the E brake cable what are you doing? :takepicture:
Might be self explanatory once I dig in. Just wanted some ideas before I start the project. Thanks
I use a slightly larger plate at the front so it can be welded almost all the way around
I angle the rear so it will sit flush to the angled end of the factory frame rail , you can cap the weld with sheet metal too for a cleaner look after welding the connector
E brake cable will still fit above the rail
I like the idea/design of the front wrapping around the trans rear brace, instead of just attaching/welding a face plate to it. Magnum Force has a new single tube setup that has the wrap around front design.
The sub frame connectors that look ugly are the one's you can do quickly.
Take a short cut and wish you hadn't later on. :alan2cents:
U.S. Cartool connectors look almost like what the factory should've done if they had offered them. :alan2cents:
:bigthumb: These are home made weld ins, but might give you some ideas for the E-Brake cable.
Quote from: Shane Kelley on July 01, 2017, 05:34:45 AM
I'm curious of how you connect the rear. :takepicture:
On the E brake cable what are you doing? :takepicture:
Might be self explanatory once I dig in. Just wanted some ideas before I start the project. Thanks
Quote from: Shane Kelley on July 01, 2017, 05:34:45 AM
I'm curious of how you connect the rear. :takepicture:
On the E brake cable what are you doing? :takepicture:
Might be self explanatory once I dig in. Just wanted some ideas before I start the project. Thanks
The guy that did mine cuts the rear frame rail and slides the steel tube inside the rail, then welds it up. He does the same with the front rail. He reinforces the subframe at the bend with larger tube running to the front. The e-brake has room on top as
@Chryco Psycho (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/chryco-psycho_4) mentioned.
Thanks guys. Dan do you have any more pics of the rear area. I can't quit make out what your explaining. :thinking:
That's awesome work Cody. I was scared to put anything on mine because the car had been wrecked in the front at some point in it's life and I didn't trust everything was right. Last thing I wanted to do was brace up a problem and have the car sitting cockeyed. :o Now that it's down on all fours and I can see it sitting correctly I'm ready to stiffen it up. :yes:
Quote from: Shane Kelley on July 02, 2017, 05:18:40 AM
Thanks guys. Dan do you have any more pics of the rear area. I can't quit make out what your explaining.
These are on my Charger, installed the same subframe the same way. You can see the steel tube runs in past the hole, and he welds a little rosette on the hole to help. Hope these help.
I like that setup.
After buying the steel and looking at all options I changed directions and went with the Magnum Force XRT sub frame connectors. I know these won't be as ridged as doing a complete weld in set up. But I have no doubt they will help. I'm probably going to weld a couple beads down the side of the front parts that saddles the torsion bar cross member. It's designed for bolt in or weld in. I cleaned them up and painted them. I went with a mat titanium finish. A lot like the Hotchkis suspension parts I put on the car. I thought they look nice and gave it a good contrast but not so much in your face.
Like folks have said leave room for the e-brake cable. As well you don't want the sub-frame connector to be bouncing off your floor pans - it will drive you nuts.
There is a plate about in the middle that has a mirror plate and sandwiches the floor plan. With what your saying I'm sure that's why they put it on there. Thanks
Quote from: Cuda Cody on March 25, 2017, 05:38:36 PM
They are not easy to install and to make them look right it will take a lot of work. But if you're handy with a welder and have a few days to work on it then you can make them look pretty good. It was easy to start from scratch and make them.
Also remember you have to account for the e-brake cable.
So, Cody - when you're doing something like this, do you weld the connector all the way across? Can you do 1-2" welds every few inches apart? Since you're welding directly to the floor sheetmetal, is warping a major concern?
Just curious - I've been watching a lot of videos lately about welding and car modifications, so I'm just asking lots of general questions lately. :)
Quote from: ViperMan on August 15, 2017, 06:14:30 AM
Quote from: Cuda Cody on March 25, 2017, 05:38:36 PM
They are not easy to install and to make them look right it will take a lot of work. But if you're handy with a welder and have a few days to work on it then you can make them look pretty good. It was easy to start from scratch and make them.
Also remember you have to account for the e-brake cable.
So, Cody - when you're doing something like this, do you weld the connector all the way across? Can you do 1-2" welds every few inches apart? Since you're welding directly to the floor sheetmetal, is warping a major concern?
Just curious - I've been watching a lot of videos lately about welding and car modifications, so I'm just asking lots of general questions lately. :)
I used stitch welds on my US Car Tool sub-frame connectors, the problem with a continuous weld bead is if your weld cracks, it can continue to crack along the entire weld unless you stop drill it before it runs the entire length. I would recommend stitch welding and run a nice bead of seam sealer along the space where the sub-frame connector and floor meet.
Yes, stitch welding would be fine too. That will add a bunch of strength and wrok perfectly.
Nice job Ross on the subframes. :clapping:
Hello Shane -- Regarding the Magnum Force tubular SFC, have you installed them yet... pictures? Any issues during the install? The wrap-around front section (trans cross-rail)? The rear attachment?.. to the leaf-spring front section??? How low do they hang? Challenger of 'Cuda?
Quote from: MOPAR MITCH on September 27, 2017, 12:50:57 PM
Hello Shane -- Regarding the Magnum Force tubular SFC, have you installed them yet... pictures? Any issues during the install? The wrap-around front section (trans cross-rail)? The rear attachment?.. to the leaf-spring front section??? How low do they hang? Challenger of 'Cuda?
I have the Magnum Force XRT connectors and yes they are installed. Excellent fit on a Cuda. Only mods needed were slotting the holes a little bit for the rear spring mount studs. I had a extra set so I checked that fitment before trying to install. Also had to cut a slot in each connector to clear the brake line and fuel line where they come through the torsion bar cross member. Front seats have to come out to sandwich the floor pan with the supplied plates. Very nice product and my exhaust hangs lower than they do.
Quote from: Shane Kelley on September 27, 2017, 01:20:23 PM
Quote from: MOPAR MITCH on September 27, 2017, 12:50:57 PM
Hello Shane -- Regarding the Magnum Force tubular SFC, have you installed them yet... pictures? Any issues during the install? The wrap-around front section (trans cross-rail)? The rear attachment?.. to the leaf-spring front section??? How low do they hang? Challenger of 'Cuda?
I have the Magnum Force XRT connectors and yes they are installed. Excellent fit on a Cuda. Only mods needed were slotting the holes a little bit for the rear spring mount studs. I had a extra set so I checked that fitment before trying to install. Also had to cut a slot in each connector to clear the brake line and fuel line where they come through the torsion bar cross member. Front seats have to come out to sandwich the floor pan with the supplied plates. Very nice product and my exhaust hangs lower than they do.
Do you notice any difference with them installed?
Unless you're on a road course somewhere or launching it with 800ft/lbs of torque I think frame connectors in general are way overkill for a street driven muscle car :alan2cents:
Quote from: Cudajason on September 27, 2017, 01:27:24 PM
Quote from: Shane Kelley on September 27, 2017, 01:20:23 PM
Quote from: MOPAR MITCH on September 27, 2017, 12:50:57 PM
Hello Shane -- Regarding the Magnum Force tubular SFC, have you installed them yet... pictures? Any issues during the install? The wrap-around front section (trans cross-rail)? The rear attachment?.. to the leaf-spring front section??? How low do they hang? Challenger of 'Cuda?
I have the Magnum Force XRT connectors and yes they are installed. Excellent fit on a Cuda. Only mods needed were slotting the holes a little bit for the rear spring mount studs. I had a extra set so I checked that fitment before trying to install. Also had to cut a slot in each connector to clear the brake line and fuel line where they come through the torsion bar cross member. Front seats have to come out to sandwich the floor pan with the supplied plates. Very nice product and my exhaust hangs lower than they do.
Do you notice any difference with them installed?
To be honest. Not really.
But my car has the front apron/shock braces and felt really solid prior to installing the connectors. My doors shut nice and the car didn't have any rattles or loose feeling stuff. But I spent a lot of time with small details building it. The main reason I wanted them to help prevent any cracks in the B pillars. I run the car pretty hard and with a manual trans. That can play havoc on the B pillar seams. I have to guess it would still make the chassis more rigid. Just because I can't feel it doesn't mean it's not doing something. Definitely not a "WOW" what a huge difference thing.
On my car it was a HUGE difference with subframe connectors! But it's a convertible. I had a lot of rattles everywhere, top was making noises and everything else also. Got almost totally quiet with the connectors on. And later when I took the car completely apart I found loose stuff here and there, missing spotwelds etc. Now I have fender braces, radiator support and I fixed all loose parts, cant wait to drive it again!
(In 10 years, at the speed my resto is going now :tired:)
I wish I had some of yalls skill. :worship: I don't have a welder, and I don't have any way to cut square stock to fit the floor. Any way I look at it it'd be cheaper for me to buy the Magnum Force since the drivers side of the car commences liftoff every time I leave from a stop sign.
Shane - T/Anks very much for the pics!!!!