https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-plymouth-cudaspeed/6550689571.html
That looks like a good deal!
I was looking at the fender tag and build sheet VON, they don't match.
Fender Tag VON 008399 Build Sheet VON 173477 :rubeyes:
FAKE SHEET - lots of problems :barf:
No N85/A62 and wrong radio. Couldn't see if the reverse warning light was present.
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 05, 2018, 10:30:28 AM
FAKE SHEET - lots of problems :barf:
That's a pretty strong statement...the sheet looks awful legit other then something funky with the VON number,,,there's a "7" that looks weird :brainiac:
Maybe it's a factory screw up ? or the tag is a reproduction?
Quote from: anlauto on April 05, 2018, 11:54:57 AM
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 05, 2018, 10:30:28 AM
FAKE SHEET - lots of problems :barf:
That's a pretty strong statement...the sheet looks awful legit other then something funky with the VON number,,,there's a "7" that looks weird :brainiac:
Maybe it's a factory screw up ? or the tag is a reproduction?
There's a pile more wrong other than the VON number, you don't see all the mistakes? Many of them are pretty elementary.
I don't know enough about BCS to find all the mistakes like you guys....I'm just saying the sheet looks pretty original ....and for the most part, a lot of the codes check out....there's nothing that really jumps out at me.... :dunno:
Quote from: anlauto on April 05, 2018, 12:48:52 PM
I don't know enough about BCS to find all the mistakes like you guys....I'm just saying the sheet looks pretty original ....and for the most part, a lot of the codes check out....there's nothing that really jumps out at me.... :dunno:
How about the codes that don't even exist on an ebody?
I wouldn't know which ones you're talking about, sorry. :sorry:
Both cudas that I have are in the sequence range of this car and have non-colored sheets. Also 72 up drivers inner fender on this car. When throwing down that kind of $ a personal inspection is a must.
Quote from: E74cuda on April 06, 2018, 11:02:54 AM
Both cudas that I have are in the sequence range of this car and have non-colored sheets. Also 72 up drivers inner fender on this car. When throwing down that kind of $ a personal inspection is a must.
The sheet color was something I was keeping to myself. You are correct.
Quote from: JS29 on April 05, 2018, 11:15:34 AM
No N85/A62 and wrong radio. Couldn't see if the reverse warning light was present.
Should it have had a rally dash? From what I understand, they weren't standard on 'Cudas, only R/Ts. As far as the radio goes, you have far better eyes than me.... :)
:pullinghair: What kind of reply is this ?!?? " Fake sheet - Lots of problems " "The sheet color was somthing to keep to myself " " There's a pile more wrong then the VON number, you don't see the mistakes ? " :huh: IF you guys have knowledge about decoding These broadcast sheets, and guys/gals are inquiring, THEN SHARE !!! :notsure: Are you teasers or Teachers. :brainiac:
Don't hoard you knowledge !!! GMAB !!!
Maybe someone should contact the car's owner and see what his opinion of the sheet is? The ad states he's had the car for 30+ years, so he should know the history behind the sheet ?
If it is indeed "FAKE" then it's a pretty good fake, because that one blurry picture of it looks pretty real to me... :dunno:
I well understand why the guys that really know sheets don't type on a public forum what is wrong with them. The last thing we want to do is educate the guys that fake the sheets. They read the forums too.
Quote from: GY3R/T on April 08, 2018, 07:22:41 PM
:pullinghair: What kind of reply is this ?!?? " Fake sheet - Lots of problems " "The sheet color was somthing to keep to myself " " There's a pile more wrong then the VON number, you don't see the mistakes ? " :huh: IF you guys have knowledge about decoding These broadcast sheets, and guys/gals are inquiring, THEN SHARE !!! :notsure: Are you teasers or Teachers. :brainiac:
Don't hoard you knowledge !!! GMAB !!!
enough info was given to warn interested buyer's about the legitimacy of the sheet :deadhorse:
:thinking: - should I spell out all the issues so the next fraudulent sheet made for this car is correct?
I believe the remark
@HEMICUDA (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/hemicuda_27) made was just some :pokeeye: aimed at @anlauto (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/anlauto_19)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-1970-1971-1972-74-Road-Runner-BROADCAST-SHEET-Charger-Challenger-Cuda-RT/152964933709?hash=item239d6ba84d:g:8VAAAOSwr0ZXNoYF&vxp=mtr
Quote from: GY3R/T on April 08, 2018, 07:22:41 PM
:pullinghair: What kind of reply is this ?!?? " Fake sheet - Lots of problems " "The sheet color was somthing to keep to myself " " There's a pile more wrong then the VON number, you don't see the mistakes ? " :huh: IF you guys have knowledge about decoding These broadcast sheets, and guys/gals are inquiring, THEN SHARE !!! :notsure: Are you teasers or Teachers. :brainiac:
Don't hoard you knowledge !!! GMAB !!!
It's a double edge sword. If they point out everything that was wrong you the fakers get better at creating fake sheets.
One thing that is super obvious in A62 and N85 - they live together on the sheet and on the tag - they are missing from the tag so one or both pieces of documentation are fake.
Quote from: anlauto on April 08, 2018, 07:36:38 PM
Maybe someone should contact the car's owner and see what his opinion of the sheet is? The ad states he's had the car for 30+ years, so he should know the history behind the sheet ?
If it is indeed "FAKE" then it's a pretty good fake, because that one blurry picture of it looks pretty real to me... :dunno:
Yea, that was a little jab at Allan, I like reading his posts even when they're a little sideways. :D When you're a respected member and people listen to your opinion, especially about something as important as a broadcast sheet, care must be taken what is written. When comments are made like, "pretty good fake" or "looks pretty real to me", about a piece that has glaring issues my be a problem for any prospective buyer. This great forum Cody created deserves accurate information coming from the guys "in the know". And yes, there are bits and pieces of information that my not get shared in a public forum atmosphere.
I really enjoy these threads too....but my opinions are nothing but honest....I know about 1/100 of what you experts know when it comes to BCS. If I was in the market to buy this car....I would have thought there was nothing wrong with that sheet based on that one blurry picture.
Now I know better....I appreciate learning new things just like everybody else. :alan2cents:
I've emailed the seller to see what his thoughts are.....
My emailed question: I was wondering if you knew the history of the car's documentation ? Did you have the broadcast sheet made ? A couple of experts have viewed your ad and claimed without a doubt that the broadcast sheet in your ad is a FAKE ???
You can read what they have to say in this thread: https://forum.e-bodies.org/cars-for-sale-or-wanted/8/bs23v-fe5-d21-n96-dollar89k/6260/ Please join the forum and add any information you might have.
Thank you...Alan
His reply: Alan, Yes I have the ORIG build sheet for the car and the VIN number is visable and yes it is BS23V , and I know the complete history of this car.It was sold brand new in the county that I live in and spent its whole life here. It has been with the same owner for the last 30+ years. Thanks PS The photo of the broadcast sheet is between 2 pieces of plastic where it was put in to when it was found 30 years ago. Thanks
So maybe he was duped 30 years ago ? :dunno:
Just got a second email from the seller. He bought it only a few years ago, but has know about it for 30+ years. :notsure:
Allan , People should not GOSSIP about things they don't know !!!! I have known of this car for over 30 years and I finally had a chance to buy it a few years ago and have enjoyed it and now it is time to pass it on to some one who will luv it as much as me. Thanks
Quote from: anlauto on April 09, 2018, 05:22:05 AM
Just got a second email from the seller. He bought it only a few years ago, but has know about it for 30+ years. :notsure:
Allan , People should not GOSSIP about things they don't know !!!! I have known of this car for over 30 years and I finally had a chance to buy it a few years ago and have enjoyed it and now it is time to pass it on to some one who will luv it as much as me. Thanks
Maybe the owner duped him and he's just an ignorant flipper? :bradsthumb:
Facts are facts. It doesn't matter who did the transgression.
Having the car for 30 years and knowing about the car for 30 years are two different things.
This guy was obviously duped and wants to get out of the mistake he made. Now if we can find the prior seller and see what documentation he has would be really interesting eh?
I'm sure it would be illuminating at least.
:bricks:
I like the look of the car all right. Correct docs = $$$$ though.
there have been fake sheets for decades - here are a few of the "ISSUES" :unbelievable: there are many more!!
If someone wants to participate in the "GOSSIP" & learn, I believe clear pics or a high quality scan will clearly show where the sheet was modified to appear to match the subject 'cuda
the former owner may have been duped also - "LOST" or "REWARD OFFERED" ads have resulted in FAKE engines, broadcast sheets, other being created to sell to the car owner :bigmoney:
Well...now it's obvious :twothumbsup: .....I don't even know how you guys were able to see those numbers on that blurry picture :tired:
Let me test my understanding:
The trim tag does not have the codes for rally dash and tach.
So the trim tag does not match the options on the car.
And the codes on the trim tag do not match the codes on the build sheet.
And the color of the build sheet is not the same as the build sheet printed before and after.
Therefore it appears the build sheet and trim tag are suspect?
Yea, the more I read into this the more confused I get....If the sheet is a reproduction yet the tag is original, why not make the sheet match the tag....the obvious different numbers don't make sense. :clueless:
If the tag is a reproduction, why not make it match the sheet ? :clueless: :clueless:
If both are reproductions, then why not make them match each other :clueless: :clueless: :clueless:
Messed up VON's is one thing, but different radio codes and such, make no sense.....
Quote from: anlauto on April 09, 2018, 04:03:49 PM
Yea, the more I read into this the more confused I get....If the sheet is a reproduction yet the tag is original, why not make the sheet match the tag....the obvious different numbers don't make sense. :clueless:
If the tag is a reproduction, why not make it match the sheet ? :clueless: :clueless:
If both are reproductions, then why not make them match each other :clueless: :clueless: :clueless:
Messed up VON's is one thing, but different radio codes and such, make no sense.....
Fakers have not put in the 100s of hours needed to create accurate fake tags and sheets. They go to a de-coder and just plug in what the customer wants. They don't know the details. Things are different by plant and by year.
So they end up nonsense. However that does not stop some from trying harder to deceive.
Yea, but now that Dan has pointed out some of the more OBVIOUS issues....my 15 year old kid could have done a better job....maybe it's an original sheet modified to somewhat match the car :drunk:
Quote from: anlauto on April 09, 2018, 05:48:31 PM
Yea, but now that Dan has pointed out some of the more OBVIOUS issues....my 15 year old kid could have done a better job....maybe it's an original sheet modified to somewhat match the car :drunk:
I don't think it is a mod
The eBay auction listed has a guy that makes sheets that look old
Dan also left out other things I am sure
We need to be careful to not give out too much info on how to spot fakes.
Maybe create a members only area to talk about this because we don't need to give out info like CSI.
This is a very educational thread and yes I agree if too much is reviled the counter fitters will get better , also like was said it a double edge sword, but it is worth the conversation for ill-advised people like me to know. Thanks for the thread. You guys/gals know your sht.
I'm sure the counterfeiters have it perfected by now... :alan2cents:
Quote from: anlauto on April 10, 2018, 11:19:12 AM
I'm sure the counterfeiters have it perfected by now... :alan2cents:
Sadly this might be true
Luckily most of them are too lazy to do the work
Quote from: anlauto on April 10, 2018, 11:19:12 AM
I'm sure the counterfeiters have it perfected by now... :alan2cents:
I would like to think that we're kinda past that now with the power of the internet and the education of the over all Mopar community. What once ran ram-pied in our hobby, hopefully will be coming to an end. :fingerscrossed:
R-37 in a 70 E-body ? ... :foul: