E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

My quarters are replaced from below the body line and down. Not a nice buttweld, but a big overlap with spotwelds that I really don't like. The overlap is maybe 2" wide. I thought I will redo it someday when my welding skills are up to that level. I bought new quarterskins (found them here in Sweden for a good deal, and AMD did not have skins for one side, still don't and they said it could be years before they have them again, so I bought them just in case).

Now, the way the joint is made is the only reason I wanna replace them, the are fine otherwise. A friend just pointed out that instead of replacing them I should just make a cut thru the 2 pieces and buttweld. With my lack of experience, I did not even think of that, is that a good way?

I guess I have to remove paint and see exactly how its welded from the outside. And I do realize no one can really answer the question without seeing the actual joint from both side, but maybe someone with lots of experience have some good input.

Option B is to leave it, but it bothers me....

Picture is from inside of trunk toward the right wheelhouse.

Overlap joints tend to have more problems then butt joints.  If not done perfectly they can fail later.  Sometimes it takes many years to fail, but anytime you allow air / water and humidity to get behind paint it will fail.  On the other hard, butt joints do not allow anything to get behind them, but the hard part about butt joints if the thin sheet metal.  If not done correctly it will warp the metal really easy.

It really comes down to what will make you happy.  If it was my car, I would either butt weld it or replace the full quarter.   :alan2cents:

Buttweld it if you do it. Yes the way to get a perfect fit is to lay the new panel over old and zip cut through both of them. If this is a Challenger make the cut about 3/8" below the body line as it is less prone to warping there.
If the paint is in good shape I wouldn't bother with it until bubbles are showing.

I think it's going to depend if it was flanged or over lapped if your just going to be able to zip disc it as is and but weld.  You'll need to remove paint and filler on front like you said to have a better look at it

What does the exterior look like? On some cars it might be preferable to just run them as is until they need to be replaced. Lot of guys tear cars apart with good intentions that never gat put back together. Keep that in mind as it sucks to not drive your e-body. However if you do have them replaced, butt joint is the only way to go!

The outside looks fine to me, there is no flange that I can see from behind, just a big overlap, thats why I thought a cut right under the body line would be an easy fix. But as Chaos-N-Mayhem says, I might just create a lot of extra work and the quarters will probably last long they are now. I just to anal about the overlap, since I want every thing as good as I can get it. Gonna change the trunk floor soon and while working on that I get to sit there and look at it for a long time, I have to decide then, cut it or leave it...

If the car was a bare shell and in primer, I'd say cut them off and fix them now.  However, it looks like you have a really nice looking car there.  Just drive it and enjoy it.  You have the parts to fix it.  Just hold on to them.  Who knows, some moron might run into you some day.  Then you'll HAVE to fix it and you'll have the parts to do it.

well, if your doing the trunk floor. Do you plan on sectioning it in ? or replacing the whole floor ? replacing the floor with a 2 piece floor or a one piece. If you have the resources and don't mind repainting the whole car. Then I would put full quarters on with a one piece trunk floor. then its all done correctly and the way you want it to be and look. Other wise the disappointment will continue to nag at you.

That's a great looking car. Drive the heck out of it and collect any parts you may need to restore the back the way you want it. If it gets faded  or damaged then do the work on it. One piece trunk floor seam to seam is easy to do without disturbing the outer panels/paint. You start messing around with quarters you'll end up painting the whole car and materials aren't cheap these days.

Quote from: MoparDave on April 06, 2017, 06:54:33 AM
well, if your doing the trunk floor. Do you plan on sectioning it in ? or replacing the whole floor ? replacing the floor with a 2 piece floor or a one piece. If you have the resources and don't mind repainting the whole car. Then I would put full quarters on with a one piece trunk floor. then its all done correctly and the way you want it to be and look. Other wise the disappointment will continue to nag at you.

Yes, got a 2 piece from you Dave, (Ken Skoglund/Sweden :) ). I will repaint the car at one point, because I want it black. But right now the plum crazy is untouched, even though I blasted the whole shell except the outer quarters. Looks like this now for you who have not seen my resto thread. Will have a 6.1 Hemi/NAG 1, new suspension, brakes etc.

(check out the dog scratch collar on my redneck welding exhaust construction  :haha: )

Clearly now is the time weld them up..

If you don't already have some of these...

https://www.amazon.com/Harbor-Freight-Tools-Welding-Clamps/dp/B006ZBAQ9S

get some...

Here's a video the explains them... start at 6.00...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No4RKNa_jqM

Since it's a stripped shell, now is the time to do it.  I thought the first picture you posted was the car's current condition.

Quote from: Burdar on April 06, 2017, 08:25:30 AM
Since it's a stripped shell, now is the time to do it.  I thought the first picture you posted was the car's current condition.

:iagree: I thought the same thing!

Quote from: soundcontrol on April 06, 2017, 08:13:07 AM

Quote from: MoparDave on April 06, 2017, 06:54:33 AM
well, if your doing the trunk floor. Do you plan on sectioning it in ? or replacing the whole floor ? replacing the floor with a 2 piece floor or a one piece. If you have the resources and don't mind repainting the whole car. Then I would put full quarters on with a one piece trunk floor. then its all done correctly and the way you want it to be and look. Other wise the disappointment will continue to nag at you.

Yes, got a 2 piece from you Dave, (Ken Skoglund/Sweden :) ). I will repaint the car at one point, because I want it black. But right now the plum crazy is untouched, even though I blasted the whole shell except the outer quarters. Looks like this now for you who have not seen my resto thread. Will have a 6.1 Hemi/NAG 1, new suspension, brakes etc.

(check out the dog scratch collar on my redneck welding exhaust construction  :haha: )

LOL. Hey Ken. good to see the car in its current state.

My vote is to attempt to remove the lap now and try to but weld them as they are on the car.
Use that for the learning curve to get them done proper to your liking.
If "repair" doesnt work you already have the replacements to try it again using the knowledge you gained from the first attempt.

Mike  :yes:

Quote from: YellowThumper on April 06, 2017, 09:50:35 PM
My vote is to attempt to remove the lap now and try to but weld them as they are on the car.
Use that for the learning curve to get them done proper to your liking.
If "repair" doesnt work you already have the replacements to try it again using the knowledge you gained from the first attempt.

Mike  :yes:

Seems like a good strategy! The quarters I have are skins (they don't make whole quarters for the convertible) so even if I use those there will be a long butt welded seam, only difference is will be higher up.

I would take a close look at the skins u have.    I had to cut mine under the body line. They were a different couture right behind the door. Not as detailed in the shape as factory.  That body line is what defines these car in my opinion so I wanted to keep the fine details.   Mine are Goodmark skins not sure if you have amd if they're  any different.  Just something to check before you cut

If you only have skins, I would really think about it some more. Once you start cutting, there is no turning back. If you think about it, they did overlaps on several areas of the factory install, floor pans, trunk pans, etc. On large areas as the quarters, there was no need to do them in sections, so one stamping and it was done. There are reworked AMD quarters out there, but not cheap and then shipping across the pond is going be out of site.

I looked at your current pictures(s) and unless I missed something, they don't look that bad. Now if you have rust bubbles showing down low or on the seams, that is a game changer. If mine, I would drive and enjoy it, just my  :alan2cents:.

If the seam bugs you that much you could clean it down, get some body-filler out and smooth it out. the factory had some kind of sound deadening spayed on the inside toe quarters. :alan2cents: :wrenching:

What skins (company) do you have?  I've seen some early skins that were made and they are pretty bad.  The fuel filler hole has 45 degree angle on it and I doubt it will even fit a gas cap.   :notsure:  Look them over really good.  :alan2cents:  But I'm with everyone else.  Now that you have it apart, fix it right.

Quote from: soundcontrol on April 07, 2017, 01:12:15 AM

The quarters I have are skins (they don't make whole quarters for the convertible) so even if I use those there will be a long butt welded seam, only difference is will be higher up.

Not sure. They could be Goodmark, certainly not AMD, there is 2 numbers on a sticker, (CH2902647SR and C28E, nothing else), they are missing the drain in front of the wheelhouse, and so does my car right now, that gotta be fixed also.

I looked a little closer today, while working on my trunk floor, and the seam is actually above the body line, 1-1,5" varies a bit. And the overlap is big, so my stock quarter goes down to to the bodyline on the inside. Seems like there is no flange made, (at least not on the inside), just spotwelded. I also tried a magnet and I can tell that there is bondo 1-2" above the bodyline. Next step is removing a bit of the (pretty new FC7....) paint to examine the seam.   :crying:
In some spots I can see rust forming on the cut edges of the old quarter, (from inside the trunk) so in time there will be problems.

Plan A: make a cut above the bodyline and buttweld.
Plan B. Change the whole skins to the new ones.

Good luck with plan A.
But good to have plan B option.

OK, I sanded off some paint to look at the seam (tried paint stripper first, didn't work).
Not that much bondo and the seam looks pretty good, not buttwelded though.
(Old quarter goes down to the bodyline on the inside).
Now, if I make a cut below the welds, I will have to deal with some bumps and welds that left on the upper part.
Wonder if I should cut right where the weld is now?
Any suggestions?

I vote for cutting low and dealing with the weld area separate.

In the end you only want 1 seam. You want that seam close to a body line as that body line will help prevent warping.

It looks like you've got a old Sherman panels... Before you cut anything try fitting your marker lights to the panels & try fitting your fuel filler/fuel cap/flip top cap..... If everything fits.. Great proceed.... If not.. Think long & hard before proceeding.... The old Sherman panels were junk.... You'd be money ahead to suck it up & buy a set of the AMD panels that Ken Hopperdietzel has converted for convertibles...

http://www.ebodyconvertibleconversions.com/#!on-line-store

Oh... Before you do that post a thread about Ken & ask how dealings with him have been lately... I've heard plenty of good & some not so good... But from what I've heard these panels are pretty good & since they are based on an easily sourced AMD panel parts availability shouldn't be an issue...

Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on April 22, 2017, 08:50:53 PM
It looks like you've got a old Sherman panels... Before you cut anything try fitting your marker lights to the panels & try fitting your fuel filler/fuel cap/flip top cap..... If everything fits.. Great proceed.... If not.. Think long & hard before proceeding.... The old Sherman panels were junk.... You'd be money ahead to suck it up & buy a set of the AMD panels that Ken Hopperdietzel has converted for convertibles...

http://www.ebodyconvertibleconversions.com/#!on-line-store

Oh... Before you do that post a thread about Ken & ask how dealings with him have been lately... I've heard plenty of good & some not so good... But from what I've heard these panels are pretty good & since they are based on an easily sourced AMD panel parts availability shouldn't be an issue...

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

If you are going to cut the quarters off, bite the bullet and get the AMD reworked quarters. If you are going to just hang skins and butt weld, I can't see enough  improvement to warrant the amount of work.

Jegs has a left listed for $1624, but shipping is going to be over the top. Not sure what they sell for from Ken, probably very similar. Jegs might be in a better position for shipping/exporting.

Tough call.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Auto-Metal-Direct/106/700-2570-VL/10002/-1?ymm=4294829708+4294829634+4294829086

Thanks guys, your advidse really helps on this tough decision!
Those skins I got don't look exactly right to me either. I got them very cheap and I can always use them as patches on my -73 project later (it dosen't need whole quarters, just parts of the wheelhouse area).

I won't get already made quarters from Hopperdietzel, I already talked to him (even before I got the skins) and the prize is 2200 each. If so I can get AMD's and modify them myself, (how hard can it be.... ) and if I absolutely feel that I can't do them myself, I know people here that can, for way less money. Shipping is no big issue for me, it's cheap, I have friends that ships containers every month, it just takes 2-3 months go get my stuff, and I'm not in a hurry.

So, I will clean off the paint and bondo, see the whole seam, and make a cut, I think I can make it about 1/2" -1" above the bodyline, then I'll just have to see if I screwed it up or if I can make it nice...
Gonna take some time and build up the courage now...   :fingerscrossed:

Quote from: soundcontrol on April 23, 2017, 03:08:56 AM
T

I won't get already made quarters from Hopperdietzel, I already talked to him (even before I got the skins) and the prize is 2200 each. If so I can get AMD's and modify them myself, (how hard can it be.... ) and if I absolutely feel that I can't do them myself, I know people here that can, for way less money. Shipping is no big issue for me, it's cheap, I have friends that ships containers every month, it just takes 2-3 months go get my stuff, and I'm not in a hurry.

Ken's quarters were nice, but I think any competent metal man can make them as well or weld the new quarters on just below the step flange.

The advantage of modifying the quarters yourself is that you can make them fit YOUR car. With Hopperdietzel's, you're just hoping they fit your car. Not worth the extra money in my opinion.  :alan2cents:

Two weld lines going to be more filler to cover both  :alan2cents:

$2200 is Crazy, I'd never heard a price.... I'd modify my own too...

He takes a $600 Quarter, lops a section off & reworks a flange & feels thats worth $1600...  Get real... Another rip off in the Mopar hobby...

Yep, 2200 per side is what he quoted me. Found it too expensive for me.

Another thought, I'm about to replace the trunk floor, its all cut out now (extensions also), should I fix/replace the quarters before that or after, or does it matter.

I wish I left my quarters on when I did trunk floor and extensions then did the 1/4s after.   :alan2cents:

Quote from: soundcontrol on April 23, 2017, 09:38:23 AM
Yep, 2200 per side is what he quoted me. Found it too expensive for me.

Another thought, I'm about to replace the trunk floor, its all cut out now (extensions also), should I fix/replace the quarters before that or after, or does it matter.

Ya, that is way too much. Sounds like you have the shipping hurdle at a moot point, so with that in mind, if me, I would spring for some AMD full quarters and go that route. Where the modifications are going to be, should be covered by the well liner/ convertible boot and the molding. I would rather deal with that versus butt weld and possibly warping the panel. Heck, with shipping basically covered, you could almost get 2 of each side and still be at the cost on just one. If you can get to where you are on the car, modifying the hardtop quarters to the vert should be easy peasy.  :cheers:

Sanded off some more and did a test today, grinded off some of the spotwelds to see if I could do it without any damage to the original panel, and to see how it looked under the seam. It's looking good, Picture 1 is the skin separated from the original quarter. Picture 2 is from the inside, notice the spotwelds and the edge of the old quarter. There is no flange done, the new skin was simply put on top of the old and spotwelded. I think I can make a cut right above the bodyline and buttweld with good results. The old seam is actually no seam, I can just grind the spots down with a flapdisc, I just have to be careful cutting them, so I don't cut in to the old panel. I cut almost thru and used a sharp whatshumacallit to separate the skin from the old quarter, (Picture 3) worked fine with no damage to the panel. And to make it more of a challange, I'm gonna TIG weld all this.  :D

Sound just cut the whole quarter off and put a full quarter on. :alan2cents:

Looking good wish I was making the progress you are  :bradsthumb:

On a side note :

Whatshumacallit = wedge in my neck of the woods. 

Alan, I would If I didn't live in Sweden and had to wait 3-4 months for parts. (or pay $3000 in air freight).
I still might, there is plenty of opportunity for me to screw it up still.  :)




Edit by Cuda Cody: Fixed the f bomb.   :bigthumb:

Yea...I guess I keep forgetting the challenges faced living half a world away from where the parts are :sorry:

I wounder if he contacted the factory in Taiwan and see if they will ship direct.

http://www.triplus.com.tw/

Ordered AMD full quarters for my 69 Barracuda Fastback in May 2016 and received them in November.
They were out of stock and had to be made.
I think they wait for some number of back orders before tooling up for a production run.
Then they go on the slow boat from China... I mean Taiwan.
Whatever you do just be able to look back and not say, "I Should Have..." my 2¢

AMD is out of the right side quarters anyways. Before I got the extra skins I have, I asked AMD about ordering their skins (one side was not in stock) and they said it could be years before they order them again.
I will try to fix the ones I have first, its nothing wrong with them except for the overlappning seam.
And I really don't have a problem changing them later either, if I decide in a few years that I really wanted AMD, I can change them then.
I'm the type that never get done with a car, I always make improvements or change the engines, add blower etc.
I guess I like to work on the car more than driving it :)

Quote from: A.Gramz on April 30, 2017, 04:17:12 PM
I wounder if he contacted the factory in Taiwan and see if they will ship direct.

http://www.triplus.com.tw/

I watched their video, pretty amazing they have all that gear. Wonder if the bought it from Chrysler of if they made their own. Kinda sad that our cars are now made in Taiwan.

I can source you Dynacorn 100.00 less per panel. Have had no customer complaints on these like I've had from AMD panels.

Quote from: MoparDave on May 01, 2017, 07:00:42 AM
I can source you Dynacorn 100.00 less per panel. Have had no customer complaints on these like I've had from AMD panels.

Hmm, tempting! Thanks Dave. Gonna check with Bert if any containers are leaving soon.

I cut out one outer wheelhouse today, since they are badly patched towards the quarter edge. How are the 2 halves welded together?  I could not see any trace of spotwelds, see pict 2. I cut it along the side for now, so I could remove it, but the flange towards the inner wheelhouse is still there. I bought 2 new outer wheelhouses from MoparDave, have to cut them up to make them fit a convertible though.

I've seen a lot of really good adhesives so maybe that's how they did it?   :notsure:

Quote from: Cuda Cody on May 01, 2017, 10:58:41 AM
I've seen a lot of really good adhesives so maybe that's how they did it?   :notsure:

Nope, it is welded, but not spotwelded, I had to grind the whole thing to get it off. Not sure how they welded that way but it was totally sealed.

Ooops, my quarters fell off, both of them.
Oh, well, plan B then!
Plan C is getting new ones from MoparDave.
:yes:

When I fit the skins, what best to use, clecos or metal screws? Are clecos better?

I've used both, but I like Clecos for butt joint welds and I use self tapping metal screw for full panel replacements.   :alan2cents:

Quote from: soundcontrol on May 05, 2017, 10:42:49 AM
When I fit the skins, what best to use, clecos or metal screws? Are clecos better?

Quote from: Cuda Cody on May 05, 2017, 11:28:03 AM
I've used both, but I like Clecos for butt joint welds and I use self tapping metal screw for full panel replacements.   :alan2cents:

I just ordered a bunch of clecos, never tried them (well, I never replaced a panel either...). So its gonna be fun to try.

When I replace quarters, I like to have the door in place (with 52 pounds of weight) with the fenders and hood also installed.  I do all that before I take the quarters off.  That way I can remove (one quarter) and install it back in the same spot so it lines up with the doors, which in turn line up with the fenders, which line up with the front of the hood.  That assures me that everything is going to fit nicely.  Then after I have one quarter installed, I do the same to the second quarter.  I see you still have the door latch area in place so you can still get everything lined up with the factory pillar before you replace the quarter.  :alan2cents:

Quote from: Cuda Cody on May 05, 2017, 02:54:43 PM
When I replace quarters, I like to have the door in place (with 52 pounds of weight) with the fenders and hood also installed.  I do all that before I take the quarters off.  That way I can remove (one quarter) and install it back in the same spot so it lines up with the doors, which in turn line up with the fenders, which line up with the front of the hood.  That assures me that everything is going to fit nicely.  Then after I have one quarter installed, I do the same to the second quarter.  I see you still have the door latch area in place so you can still get everything lined up with the factory pillar before you replace the quarter.  :alan2cents:

I thought about the door, didn't think as fas as the fender though, hood is gonna be tough, but maybe I should tempfit both the door and the fender...
Thanks for that suggestion, very good one. I also thought about the rear light panel area, I have the SE trim there and the shape of the old fender did not match the trim so good, so I was gonna temp fit everything before I welded.

 :yes:  Totally....  test fit as much as you can right now.  You will be much happier you did when it comes time to put it together. 

I'm picking up my old thread about my quarters again. After many testfittings and adjusting the doors, I thought my skins were OK, but now I noticed that the bodyline is not perfect, my bodyline is not as sharp as the picture of this stock green Challenger and towards the door the stock one seems to have a slight S-shape before it meets the door, so it kinda straitghtens out before the door. Mine does not, it kinda goes straight down.  I also looked at old pictures of my car and it did not have the S-shape with the old quarters either (also skins).
My left skin also had a big bump in the bodyline at the rear, that is now fixed.

I am searching for pictures of Challenger body lines now and I actually find some kinda looking like my skins. Does anybody have a closeup of a AMD quarter that clearly shows the shape of the bodyline? Looking at the picture on AMD's website, I see no pronounced S-shape there either...
(but it's not a good picture, on their site)

I am temped to skip these skins and buy new ones now, but AMD still don't have the left one in stock.

Problems found with the skins I have: Bump in bodyline rear LH, bodyline not as sharp, bodyline do not look correct going down towards the door, no drains pressed at all. Gascap don't fit RH.  It's Goodmark or Sherman I guess.

Quote from: A.Gramz on April 07, 2017, 04:10:34 AM
I would take a close look at the skins u have.    I had to cut mine under the body line. They were a different couture right behind the door. Not as detailed in the shape as factory.  That body line is what defines these car in my opinion so I wanted to keep the fine details.   Mine are Goodmark skins not sure if you have amd if they're  any different.  Just something to check before you cut

Quote from: soundcontrol on November 26, 2017, 05:49:56 AM
I'm picking up my old thread about my quarters again. After many testfittings and adjusting the doors, I thought my skins were OK, but now I noticed that the bodyline is not perfect, my bodyline is not as sharp as the picture of this stock green Challenger and towards the door the stock one seems to have a slight S-shape before it meets the door, so it kinda straitghtens out before the door. Mine does not, it kinda goes straight down.  I also looked at old pictures of my car and it did not have the S-shape with the old quarters either (also skins).
My left skin also had a big bump in the bodyline at the rear, that is now fixed.

Problems found with the skins I have: Bump in bodyline rear LH, bodyline not as sharp, bodyline do not look correct going down towards the door, no drains pressed at all. Gascap don't fit RH.  It's Goodmark or Sherman I guess.

It's hard to see but I put paint marker on it to try for a better picture.  Stock(greyish) vs Goodmark (black) skin

Oh yeah: That doesn't look right at all. I don't imagine there is another Challenger close to you that you could trace the correct shape from? That S shape can be fixed but it will take time and patience to reshape it correctly. You want to make sure your rear valance fits the quarter correctly as well at this point. Did AMD indicate a timeline for the quarters? Perhaps a vendor somewhere has some in stock.
This is a factory quarter on my old Orange car.

@A.Gramz (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/a-gramz_35), yes, that exactly the difference I have! Very clear there.

@RUNCHARGER (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/runcharger_192), I also have a -73 with correct bodylines, but I do not have the skills for fixing a bodyline like that (yet).
I mailed AMD and asked them for an ETA. MoparDave had some Dynacords also, he said was good, gonna mail him also.
I can always use these skins on the -73, that one just needs the lower parts, and wheelhouse opening.

That orange Challenger looks perfect, thats what I want.

And I welded the outer wheelhouse (AMD) fitting with the skin I have, IF I get new ones, hopfully they will fit the placement of the outer wheelhouse that I have now.

Here's a closer picture.

Quote from: anlauto on November 26, 2017, 01:52:16 PM
I've installed several AMD Challenger quarters, but had a hard time finding a picture of the driver's side "before" paint, but here you go....best I could do...

Thanks Alan, that looks way better than mine.

That "S" line is not correct at all. You are right in questioning it. supposed to flow from panel to door.

:alan2cents:
Mike.

The way they don't transition is horrible. I bought Goodmark quarters and trunk floor for my Gran Coupe and the fit was so bad, I hung up in the shop and bought AMD from Dave. The fit was 100 times better. Here is a picture of my survivor and maybe you can enlarge it and get another view of how the body line flows up, not the way it is. It is on the passenger side, but same concept.

Yes! AMD are stocking up on skins and full quarters this week! Left side skin been out for more than a year. I will order new ones from @MoparDave (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/mopardave_10).

Quote from: RUNCHARGER on November 28, 2017, 05:41:36 PM
Hmm: It looked better in paint than you would think.

Might be some bondo work involved there also. Lots of it right above my bodyline were the skin was welded.
Driver side is bad looking though.