I don't normally start threads like this because I an notorious for not keeping them updated.
However, there seems to be a lot of positive energy at this site and hopefully you guys can help
keep me motivated not only for the project itself but also for updating this thread! :twothumbsup:
So, what we have here is a 1971 'Cuda, BS23H1B... 340, FE5 Rally Red, billboards... it looked like
the picture below when it was new. Not the actual car, just a random photo from the net that has the
same color and options.
Bought the car in early 90s. Probably around 1992. The guy I got it from claimed to be a body man and
had started prepping it for paint. The car was mostly all together but the outside had been sanded down and
was in red primer. I drove it from his place to mine, maybe 8 miles at the most, and that was the only time
I have driven it since I owned it!
Once getting it home we started to pull it apart to be painted. Budget was a little tight at the time but we had
what we thought was a trusted body man lined up to do the job at a good price but he backed out at the last
minute. Out of business I think. But the result was an undrivable vehicle in pieces in tote boxes in the garage,
and then life gets in the way.
Fast forward 28 years and three moves later... it is time to stop tripping over this car and give it the love it
deserves.
First step before putting any money into it... where is the title? Tore the house apart, can't find it. So off
to Texas DMV we go for VIN inspection, the first step to obtaining a "bonded title" But wait... they will only
inspect a "complete" vehicle... it must have a body and engine. Ugh... the 340 from this car is in my '70 Challenger.
So a quick engine pull and we have what looks more like a car. They didn't look too hard at anything, just the
dash VIN and I pointed out the VIN stamped on the cowl and radiator support. I mentioned the engine also has the
same VIN if you care to look... "uh no that's OK." They gave me a form saying they thought it looked like a 1971
cuda and had a good VIN. $100 for title bond at an insurance shop down the road, back to DMV and BAM! we have a
new Texas title. So for anyone in Texas that has a vehicle without a title, this is a viable way to get one. It is a
bit cumbersome with pushing paper around and multiple office visits but overall everything went smoothly.
So with all of that out of the way, time to start pulling the car apart. Luckily(??) this process had already begun
28 years ago, so we already had a head start. Unluckily, I now worry about how many of the parts are going to
come up missing even though we tried to organize and containerize them as best we could at the time.
The plan is to get the car to media blasting and then assess the metal needs. At minimum we are looking at the
"usual" rust mitigation pieces... inner fenders, trunk floor. Despite the appearances on the outside, it will probably
also need quarters due to some nasty hack body work done before we got it.
A few pictures... first is "inspiration" ... what it is supposed to look like and hopefully will again soon!
A couple circa 1992, when the first teardown commenced. Looking back at the old pictures, it seems it
did not deteriorate as much as it could have between then and now.
And then one at the DMV waiting for the VIN inspection.
:cool: That will be nice. keep motivated and it will get there. :wrenching:
One I my favorite cars for sure. I'll be following this thread. Two things surprise me already...
1st Can't believe you held on to it all these years and was never tempted enough to sell it along the way...
2nd Can't believe you haven't restored in in all those years :haha:
It will now be a great investment to restore it back to it's former glory :twothumbsup:
:clapping: :popcorn:
Quote from: anlauto on May 07, 2020, 11:20:19 AM
One I my favorite cars for sure. I'll be following this thread. Two things surprise me already...
1st Can't believe you held on to it all these years and was never tempted enough to sell it along the way...
2nd Can't believe you haven't restored in in all those years :haha:
It will now be a great investment to restore it back to it's former glory :twothumbsup:
If I had a dollar for every time someone asked me "You wanna sell it?" over the years... Would go a
long way toward financing the restoration!
71 cuda has always been my favorite car... wanted one since the 80s. Once I finally got one it wasn't
going to go anywhere! Never wanted to be "that guy" though... the one that sits on cars forever and
never does anything with them.
The restoration itself, well, life got in the way for a lot of those years. And then as things started to
settle down we wanted to wait until we had a proper garage and could to proper work. We built a
30x70 metal garage with this in mind. The time has come... :veryexcited:
Look ma! no hands! .... er um no transmission!
This is when preparing to take the car to DMV for VIN inspection. Putting a trans in
would be a ton of unnecessary work, so, we improvise :thinking:
Second picture is after pulling it back out. Not sure what to do with it. It served us well in
the 70 Challenger but we may go big block with that car. It is the numbers matching engine
for this cuda but we are thinking to put a modern hemi in for the "wow factor" and the drivability
of modern fuel injection. Plus, I got a pair of NOS "hemicuda" emblems 30 years ago that we
are itching to put on something! :D
If we go that route the plan is to do it as minimally invasive and reversible as possible. Maintain
the stock 1971 appearances where possible. Purists might cringe and say we should put this 340
back in, but we really like the idea of the modern engine and if we sit on this 340 it can still go back
any time.
:unbelievable: Looks like a really solid foundation you have to start with. Looking forward to updates. :banana:
Absolutely time to do it. My 71 has almost the same history as yours. I got it in 1977. At one point I blew up the AT transmission so into the garage it went. About then I started a family and life just gets the best of you. Mine sat in the garage for 22 years. Just stupid luck I held onto it for all that time. Then about 2006 I stopped listing to my wife telling me I was broke an got it going again. Been driving the crap outa it ever since and loving it. After sitting so long it will seem like a new car to ya. Slow and steady and it will get done. Just make sure you drive it often. The smiles will say it all. :D
What's the story on the 70 Challenger RT in the background? :ohyeah:
Quote from: whitsend on May 07, 2020, 06:33:03 PM
What's the story on the 70 Challenger RT in the background? :ohyeah:
I still have that :twothumbsup:
That is where the 340 from the 'cuda was hiding. The original engine for the Challenger was
"slap wore out" and all I had available at the time was the 340 so it went in. The Challenger
is a 4 speed car and when I got it there was a lot of vibration and noise when using the clutch.
If I recall correctly investigation revealed that the thrust bearing on the crank had worn completely
away resulting in a lot of end to end play in the crank and I believe it was rubbing away the main
journal on the block. Been nearly 30 years but I think that is what happened. At any rate
that motor was unfortunately deemed to be junk despite being the numbers matching block for
the car.
The "purple car" is due up next after the 'cuda
There is a '71 New Yorker with 440 behind the Challenger in that picture... Talk about a land
yacht! We called it the "aircraft carrier" and joked that small planes might be able to land on
the hood or trunk lid...
Ok so the Maypop Baloneyskins that have been on the car to make it a roller no longer
reliably hold air. Pumping them up all the time when needing to roll the car is a hassle.
What to do? Let's throw these old things on it... :unbelievable:
Truly amazing what a set of new shoes will do for a vehicle, whatever condition the
vehicle happens to be in!
I am in just because of your screen name!
~Speed
Do we win the "wasted seam sealer" contest? :unbelievable:
Looks like a cow or other large animal took a dump behind the back seat and several
more in the trunk...
Rookie on the line?
Gun stuck open?
2 minutes to shift change?
Just don't care?
All of the above?
That's actually pretty typical :looney:
That is nasty! :iagree:
Quote from: anlauto on May 09, 2020, 10:47:54 AM
That's actually pretty typical :looney:
Needless to say, when the time comes to put the sealer back on, it will not be applied "factory correct"
:no:
Quote from: RacerX on May 08, 2020, 09:05:12 AM
Quote from: whitsend on May 07, 2020, 06:33:03 PM
What's the story on the 70 Challenger RT in the background? :ohyeah:
At any rate
that motor was unfortunately deemed to be junk despite being the numbers matching block for
the car.
I hope you didn't throw the block away. Anything can be fixed and there is only one original to a car.
Hey. Your story sound almost exactly like mine. Last time my car was insured was 1992, same year I bought it. It's been in storage ever since. Wife, kids, life etc and now I am on pace to finish the car in 2024 for my 50th birthday. Built a shop to restore in 2015. I think we are twins. Haha.
Quote from: Swamp Donkey on May 09, 2020, 01:40:35 PM
Hey. Your story sound almost exactly like mine. Last time my car was insured was 1992, same year I bought it. It's been in storage ever since. Wife, kids, life etc and now I am on pace to finish the car in 2024 for my 50th birthday. Built a shop to restore in 2015. I think we are twins. Haha.
Yea our stories do sound similar! Nice to finally get back to it even after the long break!
We are hoping to have this one back on the road in 2021 for it's 50th anniversary.
It was born in August 1970 so I don't think we will make it for it's 50th birthday hehe
Is the car a early build ? I see it has 1970 shock plug hole locations. Typical 71 hole location is in the back of the floor pan not the top.
Yep...I see you posted that right before I added my post.
Quote from: 76orangewagon on May 09, 2020, 02:09:46 PM
Is the car a early build ? I see it has 1970 shock plug hole locations. Typical 71 hole location is in the back of the floor pan not the top.
Yes... scheduled production date on the fender tag was August 23
It also has the front end blackouts (behind the grille, front of radiator supports, inside the front valence, etc) and bottom of rocker panel blackouts which
I understand they stopped doing somewhere in the '71 model year.
Quote from: RacerX on May 09, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
Yes... scheduled production date on the fender tag was August 23
It also has the front end blackouts (behind the grille, front of radiator supports, inside the front valence, etc) and bottom of rocker panel blackouts which
I understand they stopped doing somewhere in the '71 model year.
all the above still received the "blackout" for '71
the "blackout" that was eliminated for the '71 model year is the top of the cowl
Quote from: 6bblgt on May 09, 2020, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: RacerX on May 09, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
Yes... scheduled production date on the fender tag was August 23
It also has the front end blackouts (behind the grille, front of radiator supports, inside the front valence, etc) and bottom of rocker panel blackouts which
I understand they stopped doing somewhere in the '71 model year.
all the above still received the "blackout" for '71
the "blackout" that was eliminated for the '71 model year is the top of the cowl
Ah ok... now that you mention it that sounds like what I heard. I knew there was no cowl blackout for '71 but I could have swore though that they stopped the others during the model year.
Good great, good thing you held onto it all these years!
Quote from: 76orangewagon on May 09, 2020, 02:09:46 PM
Is the car a early build ? I see it has 1970 shock plug hole locations. Typical 71 hole location is in the back of the floor pan not the top.
I'd say that a larger percentage of 71's had the earlier type trunk floor. The later one came in more towards the end of the run. I have one that was built at the end of March with the early floor.
Quote from: E74cuda on May 10, 2020, 06:57:58 AM
Quote from: 76orangewagon on May 09, 2020, 02:09:46 PM
Is the car a early build ? I see it has 1970 shock plug hole locations. Typical 71 hole location is in the back of the floor pan not the top.
I'd say that a larger percentage of 71's had the earlier type trunk floor. The later one came in more towards the end of the run. I have one that was built at the end of March with the early floor.
What is the general consensus on replacements? It seems the repops have the new style access holes despite being marketed as 71-74.
In one of the previous pictures that you posted it clearly shows that you have the top shock blot access holes with the orange plugs on the top of your original trunk floor. If you want the same floor order a 1970 trunk floor. That is correct for your cuda.
Quote from: E74cuda on May 11, 2020, 08:56:03 AM
In one of the previous pictures that you posted it clearly shows that you have the top shock blot access holes with the orange plugs on the top of your original trunk floor. If you want the same floor order a 1970 trunk floor. That is correct for your cuda.
Well, yes, of course that would be the course of action. I was just curious because AMD doesn't list a 1970 floor... only "71-74" with the new style holes.
Roseville shows both styles available on their webpage.
Classic Industries has a "universal" one that doesn't have the holes cut, leaving it up to the installer to put the holes where they want them. It is not clear who makes the panel though.
They claim it is correct for 1970, but can be used 1971-4 "with modifications." The details mention the "modification" as cutting the hole. Did some of these leave the factory with no holes cut? I vaguely remember seeing some mopars back in the 80s where the owner hacked some access holes for the shocks that did not look factory. I could be thinking of something else though... been too long!
Since it is a two person job, we introduced the wife to the "old school" window glass removal system...
One person inside, the other outside, and trying to coordinate movements.
Someone on another thread mentioned cutting glass out with one of those oscillating tools... sure seems
like that would require an incredibly steady hand. For me I think I would just cut to the chase and smack
the window with a hammer and get out the shop vac. Result would be the same!
The "time honored" method works pretty good. I've never broken glass with it but does require two people
working together and pulling in the appropriate directions...
Old school method! :bigthumb:
Fish is fully gutted... off to the blaster it goes!
Last time seeing it look like this!
To help you stay motivated, this was a Rally Red BS23N0.. Texas find sent East.
Now fully restored sporting a MP 472 Hemi which is a beast.
IMO.. 1. stroke the original 340 2. Use the 440 in the imperial 3. MP Hemi
Quote from: X3v614 on May 30, 2020, 05:17:34 AM
To help you stay motivated, this was a Rally Red BS23N0.. Texas find sent East.
Now fully restored sporting a MP 472 Hemi which is a beast.
IMO.. 1. stroke the original 340 2. Use the 440 in the imperial 3. MP Hemi
Nice looking '70! Have always liked the red on these when it is "fresh"
Have been wavering on painting it the original color versus changing to some other
factory issued 1971 color. Not sure... still figuring on Rallye Red but always a
lingering "what if..."
Back in the day it was bad news to order a red car... looked great for a while but faded
and oxidized heaps faster than the other colors. Modern paints seem to have this licked
though.
For the engine, not really looking for a race car, just something fun to drive and starts
reliably when the key is turned because wife wants to drive it also! :stop:
Current front runner for motor is 5.7 hemi using the A518 we have stashed in the garage.
When do you get car back from blasters ? Are you expecting any surprises.
Quote from: Tony 73 on May 31, 2020, 04:56:51 AM
When do you get car back from blasters ? Are you expecting any surprises.
Should get it back in a couple weeks.
Not expecting many surprises with the body... during the strip down process I already
saw most of the trouble spots. The quarters looked good from the outside but there
were a few decades of amateur repairs concealed inside them. They were not really
salvageable so we cut them open for easier access for blasting the inside structures.
Everything inside looks nice and clean.
The passenger fender revealed some surprises though. Look at the top of it... looks
like someone attacked it with a pick axe. Not just holes, but major low spots. That
was perfectly smooth and level before blasting, and surprisingly I did not see any
evidence of that damage and repair on the underside when I removed it from the car.
Guess it was concealed by the dirt and undercoating! There is other damage I already
knew about not shown in the pictures. May not be economically repairable, looks like
AMD repop fenders may be in our future... I am sure it COULD be fixed, but I feel it may
be beyond the point where the time and effort is worth it.
Thanks for the update.
The top of the fender door look a mess, good to have options of fix or replace. The right body guy can work wonders.
Strip and blast is the only way to go if you the time and budget, gives you piece of mind in the future. I can see the rust in the sill and floor form photos.
Look forward to the photos in couple of weeks.
Got some of the parts back from blasting.
Expected some of the results, but also got a few surprises...
Header panel is pretty crispy. Lower valance salvageable.
Doors have more damage than thought, but not as bad as some I have seen.
Fenders are pretty swiss cheesed... Not sure I want to invest the time in repairing them, probably make more sense to just get the AMD repops and be done with that.
A bit of a curiosity on the driver side fender... someone bored a hole (two holes, actually) through the skin and the frame inside. Almost looks like the antenna hole from the passenger side. I cannot think of a reason someone would have done that?? :dunno:
Trunk lid has more damage then expected, and also a curiosity of it's own... what is up with the holes drilled along the back edge? Some ham fisted attempt to mount a T/A style spoiler? They are not evenly spaced but still too organized to be "just random". Drilled all the way through. :dunno:
Anyone have any guesses? :clueless:
All of these holes (and other damage) were filled with bondo so before blasting we did not know they were there.
Don't have the body back yet but not expecting a lot of surprises with that.
It's back...
Brought back a bit less car than I took... :unbelievable:
Notice the beautiful lace floors... we even have a nice lace cowl!
Some more questionable body "work" exposed. Love the "repairs" in the
windshield frame and not quite sure what was going on around the ends of
the tail panel... :dunno:
Sure can hide some horrors under thick enough bondo, no?
Rear passenger frame rail pretty bad, rear driver side good. Front frame good.
Rockers a little ate up at the ends.
Windshield and rear window frames pretty bad. Roof is decent though.
A bit of a bummer that so many of the panels are damaged but the exciting part is this
is the cleanest the car has been since August 1970. Soooo nice to work on CLEAN parts!
No more rust and dirt falling in my eyes!
Wow ok were will you start ?
....and this is exactly why I start every project the same way. There is no way to tell what you actually have until you clean them down to bare metal 100%...Good job :twothumbsup:
Find someone that can do the metal work and let them get to it!
Quote from: anlauto on July 11, 2020, 05:27:30 AM
....and this is exactly why I start every project the same way. There is no way to tell what you actually have until you clean them down to bare metal 100%...Good job :twothumbsup:
Agreed... definitely the best way to do it. Without blasting a lot of this may not have been readily exposed.
A lot of work to prepare it for blasting by removing absolutely everything but well worth it for exposing every flaw
and giving a clean canvas to work with! A benefit of the tedious tear down phase is you get up close and personal
with every portion of the vehicle get to know it and the issues you find while removing each part.
No surprises now. When it's over and it's painted you'll know it wasn't all a waste of time.
Quote from: cudamadd on July 10, 2020, 10:03:48 PM
Wow ok were will you start ?
Probably with the rear frame rail since that is a key piece many others pieces will base
from.
Considering going with that Dynacorn pre-assembled rear section. Trunk floor, frame rails,
crossmembers, the whole inner rear section except for the wheel houses pre-assembled at
the factory on a jig so no need to line up and weld each individual piece. Also seems much
cheaper than the individual pieces. That will solve the rear frame rail problem along with
the trunk floor.
There is a logical order for doing most of it as some pieces affect others but the rest of it is
pretty much chipping away at an iceberg with an ice pick. A little at a time and eventually
you get there.
Trying to decide what to do about the cowl... it is pretty crispy and the easiest way out here
is to just change it for the new AMD piece. The concern is what do to with the VIN stamp on
the original cowl. We can leave it off, transfer it by cutting it out of the old one and welding
it into the new one, or re-stamp it. None of these options are really attractive and each has
a downside... transferring or re-stamping tends to raise flags and get people thinking fraud,
and not putting the VIN at all can cause issues when folks like DMV try to verify the VINs.
What is the commonly accepted procedure with regards to cowl replacements?
Cut the cowl VIN out, weld it in the new panel and metal finish both side before installing it in the car, you won't be the first person to swap out a cowl number :alan2cents:
Yes: Transfer the VIN. Keep all the photos as that explains why you transferred it and that the shell is the actual one you started with and not a 1973 318 shell.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on July 11, 2020, 07:36:31 AM
No surprises now. When it's over and it's painted you'll know it wasn't all a waste of time.
That is what the blast guy kept saying... he feels sorry for the guys that did restorations 15-20 years
ago and didn't blast the cars. Ticking time bombs with rust waiting to pop through that new paint and
ruin all the effort.
Normally stuff like that would sound like the guy is just trying to justify his work/costs but he is right.
Not everyone has the time and budget to go to this level, but in the long run the extra effort will be worth
the investment.
Quote from: anlauto on July 11, 2020, 07:54:41 AM
Cut the cowl VIN out, weld it in the new panel and metal finish both side before installing it in the car, you won't be the first person to swap out a cowl number :alan2cents:
Yea that is what I was thinking... transfer it and finish both sides so it looks good and doesn't raise
unnecessary questions but document it so it can be shown that no deception is intended.
Quote from: RacerX on July 11, 2020, 08:40:50 AM
Quote from: anlauto on July 11, 2020, 07:54:41 AM
Cut the cowl VIN out, weld it in the new panel and metal finish both side before installing it in the car, you won't be the first person to swap out a cowl number :alan2cents:
Yea that is what I was thinking... transfer it and finish both sides so it looks good and doesn't raise
unnecessary questions but document it so it can be shown that no deception is intended.
Exactly :twothumbsup:
I spent a lot of time trying to salvage my original cowl but it didn't work out .I transferred the cowl stamp to the new one also
First delivery of "rust mitigation" products! :banana:
Pretty impressed with these... looks great and will be a huge time saver...
Quote from: RacerX on August 19, 2020, 04:38:59 PM
First delivery of "rust mitigation" products! :banana:
Pretty impressed with these... looks great and will be a huge time saver...
You know it only takes one of those right ? :D
Quote from: anlauto on August 19, 2020, 05:09:19 PM
Quote from: RacerX on August 19, 2020, 04:38:59 PM
First delivery of "rust mitigation" products! :banana:
Pretty impressed with these... looks great and will be a huge time saver...
You know it only takes one of those right ? :D
Hahaha yea... one is for my '70 Challenger. It will be a while before we get to that one
but I figured for the price it was best to "future proof" and get two of them now. Save on
shipping and not have to worry about "no longer available" or price is doubled later on.
Nice pieces! Good attention to detail from Dynacorn. They even include the fuel tank straps.
Anyone doing rear frame rails and trunk floor this looks like the way to go. By the time you
add up the individual pieces it is more than what these cost and you still need to align them
and weld them in. Here it is all already done.
Packaging was a little dodgy but they survived the trip with no damage.
Got them through Dave at Roseville. Anyone still undecided on who to deal with for parts
you need look no further. These guys are great and a pleasure to deal with which is something
you tend to encounter rarely these days.
Definitely adds to the motivation seeing nice, new, RUST FREE parts! :veryexcited:
AMD Claus comes in September.... even has a red "Sleigh" :bigthumb:
Lots of goodies!
Talk about going shopping ,lots of boxes have fun :australia:
Looks like you're going all-in.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on September 22, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
Looks like you're going all-in.
Yea seems like quite a haul! A lot of the boxes are really big though to protect the item inside.
And not all of that is for the 'cuda though... got some things for the '70 Challenger to save on shipping.
While the car was out to the blaster I started working on the steering column.
After many delays for little parts here and there finally got it done.
Turned out OK it seems...
Unfortunately I don't have a lot of "before" pictures, but imagine the whole thing looked pretty much like the piece of it in the last picture... :o
Pretty nice now :drooling: :bigthumb:
Excellebt: It's good to get as many pieces done as you can before starting on the dreary bodywork portion.
Some progress....
It is up on the operating table or the filet station? :thinking:
Either way cutting is about to start... :yes:
Quote from: RacerX on December 30, 2020, 06:42:46 PM
Some progress....
It is up on the operating table or the filet station? :thinking:
:haha:
Thats a good one. You have more cutting to do?
Quote from: nsmall on December 30, 2020, 09:29:40 PM
Quote from: RacerX on December 30, 2020, 06:42:46 PM
Some progress....
It is up on the operating table or the filet station? :thinking:
:haha:
Thats a good one. You have more cutting to do?
Preparing to replace the rear frame rails and trunk floor
Ok so with the car on the rack/operating table/filet station we can better assess the condition of the shell.
With the car supported on the four guide holes above the 6 inch datum, one corner showed the gap in
the picture. About 3/16 or so. It pulled in fairly easily with a ratchet strap and now all four corners are
level.
The rear rails at the measuring point given in the frame diagrams is 17 inches on the driver side,
and 17 3/16 on the passenger side. Nowhere near any of the measurements given on the three diagrams
we have available-- 15 7/16 on the 70 cuda diagram, 18 1/4 on 70 challenger, or 17 11/16 on 73 Challenger.
The general consensus by myself and others is the 15 7/16 number is erroneous, and should be disregarded.
The other numbers put the frame 1 1/4 inches or 3/4 inches too low, and there is just no way that is the
case.
Conclusion? Those diagrams are useless. In the absence of verified accurate data, will probably just
split the difference between what the two frame rails are currently measuring, dial the rack pins into that
number, and see how things lay when I start mocking up the tail panel, quarters, and deck filler against
the new rear frame.
The front rails are "close" to what is on the diagrams. +/- 3/16 or so. The height of the frame rails
varies 3/16 from side to side.
The rack and guide pins are all leveled and dialed in via laser so they are as accurate as possible.
This car was built very sloppy at the factory... not sure if it was a Friday or what but it is sloppy even
by usual 1970s standards. I would not be surprised of some of these misalignments are actually
birth defects. The 3/16 diferences are actually within the 1/4 inch margin of error cited in the factory
service manual, but my OCD won't allow that to fly so we are going to dial 'er in as close to zero as
possible!
And yes, as much as I hate metric, it would be MUCH better to do all this in mm instead of fractional
inches. But that is historically how the measurements are all presented.
The door skins were all tore up so pulled em off today....
Doors will go back to the blaster to have the inner structure blasted.
Removal relatively straight-forward but tedious due to the number of spot welds
used by the factory. 40 grit flapdisk around the edges made quick work of the skin.
Spot weld drill got the leftover skin flap off of the frame. Only tricky part was the
top of the door where the skin is spot welded to the inner frame. Luckily for me (?)
the factory did more crap work this day and the weld was already broken on one door
allowing that piece of the frame to come out and be worked on with the spot weld drill.
You can see the piece in question on top of the door that is laying on the floor.
Test-fitted the new skin and it looks pretty good. Minor tweaking may be required
but looks like it will go back together without too much drama.
yeaaa baby! hemi in da house!
:banana:
So that is going to fit in there? :thinking:
Will be a while before it goes in... lots to do beforehand but the motor popped up at a good
price and had to jump on it. 2016 392 with only 65k miles. Good condition but will still go
through it and check everything and freshen up where required.
Plan is to delete the beer barrel intake and use a more "normal" four barrel style EFI intake.
There is one being produced that accepts the OEM Mopar fuel rails and on the top we would
use something like the Holley "air valve only" throttle body. This will allow the functional use
of the shaker setup with only minor mods to the baseplate due to differences in the overall
height of the engines.
Best of both worlds-- stock-ish appearance with the convenience of modern port injection.
For control will probably go with the Holley Terminator X setup as it seems to provide the
path of least resistance versus trying to mod an OEM Mopar computer.
As the engine comes together I may split off a separate thread in the Modern Hemi Swaps
message area unless it would be beneficial to keep it here...
There has not been a lot of updates here for a while... Progress slowed down due to a few
things coming up. We had a new son in January and that has kept us a little busy! :D
Beyond that, an attempt to plate the 1974 Roadrunner that is the background in some of the
pictures snowballed into a seemingly never ending rabbit hole of small problems. Got the
plate and registration finished, but there are still a few things that it needs to have done.
Overall it turned into a major time sink... car was always in the way and "just one more thing
to do before I can move it..." turned into a scenario that repeated itself ad infinitum. :headbang:
But I was finally able to switch gears for a while and get some progress on the 'cuda. The
frame rack is complete, along with the "back brace" for when the rear frame is removed.
The plan here is to use the Dynacorn 6000WT E-body "ass end" to repair the swiss cheese
that is the trunk floor and frame rails all in one shot. Since this is a major structural unit
some braces were added to stabilize the car when the original piece is removed.
The car is currently supported at 8 points by 1 inch bolts located in the factory jig alignment
holes in the front and rear frame rails. The 4 in the rear are not "fixed" to the frame rack but
are on a "sled." When the spot welds are cut out the existing floor and frame should slide out
the back of the car. We can pick it up off of the sled and drop the Dynacorn unit down on the
bolts. Then, slide it back in and it should fall into place. Or close to it. Because the 4 rear
frame supports will move with the sled, an additional support at the pinch weld of the rocker
panels was added. This will support the rear of the car when the rear clip is not attached.
Some will say the jig holes on the aftermarket parts are not consistent, but we measured and
compared to the original and if it isn't spot on it is darn close. The sled was designed with
this possibility in mind though. If the holes do not line up we can compensate.
The first spot welds were removed tonight. Seems like a small thing but for this project it is
a huge step forward. Finally some work to the actual car instead of just preparing for it!
The spot weld cutter goes through the metal like butter and it is so satisfying hearing the POP
when the cutter gets through the first layer and the two pieces separate. :woohoo: :banana:
Only a 1000 or so more to drill! :looney:
Impressive jig. I'm sure the final fit will be great.
Quote from: Challenger in NC on June 04, 2021, 02:23:02 PM
Impressive jig. I'm sure the final fit will be great.
Thanks! It may be a little over-engineered but I didn't want anything to move during the process.
It has wheels for moving around but for working it deploys eight scaffold levelers so the deck of the
fixture is 100% flat and level and solidly planted on the ground. That provides a good reference that
doesn't move during surgery of the patient
So is this weld up to Corporate standards for appearance and penetration? :thinking:
Or was it "bring your kid to work day" ... "Hey junior! shoot some weld in here
while dad has a smoke..."
Lots of sloppy mess like this all over the car.
Was such a shame to take a grinder to such beautiful welds, but had to do it...
First piece of rusted original metal has been removed. :woohoo:
Right away an anomaly with the new AMD piece has been detected. Notice
how the reinforcement bracket for the seatbelt bolt sticks waaay out beyond
the sheet metal while the original is flush. Will need to be ground down because
it has to be flush or it hits the inner rocker panel. The bracket is also different
and puts the seatbelt bolt in a slightly different location. I don't anticipate that
to present much of a problem though.
Thanks AMD for the extra work! what were you thinking?!?!? :headbang:
I wouldn't be too quick to blame AMD for that difference. You purchased, or were supplied with the wrong parts. There are 1970 and 1971 specific rear floor pan sections dues to the seat belt retractor location :alan2cents: 410-1570-L/R VS 410-1571-L/R :bigthumb:
Quote from: anlauto on June 06, 2021, 11:49:37 AM
I wouldn't be too quick to blame AMD for that difference. You purchased, or were supplied with the wrong parts. There are 1970 and 1971 specific rear floor pan sections dues to the seat belt retractor location :alan2cents: 410-1570-L/R VS 410-1571-L/R :bigthumb:
I went back and checked the invoice which we checked the parts against when they arrived and it
shows 410-1571, not 410-1570. Packaging for this part is gone but it visually matches the 410-1571
as shown on their (AMD) website.
I think what we have here is another situation of Chrysler using 1970 parts on the line until they
were gone. This car was built in August of 1970, and has other 70-ish anomalies.
Looking at the pictures on AMD's website, the floor pans they sent me are correct for 1971-up.
However they clearly are not the same as my originals. AMD's pictures for the 1970 floor pans
show a much closer match to the original that was removed although it is far from an exact match.
I'm gonna say that they used the 1970 style pans when this car was built.
However, none of this excuses the bracket protruding 1/2 inch out beyond the edge of the floor
pan. Even in all of AMD's photos they show it flush. There is no way the pan can be installed if it
is not flush.
Working on separating the tail panel from the trunk floor, and I am just stunned by the
"workmanship" here... It seems on par with the sloppy welds on the rear floor pans
though... :looney:
In the pictures, the red circles denote spot welds that MISSED COMPLETELY... they did not
hit the other panel to be welded. It was not necessary to drill them, the panels were not
bonded in those locations. Was this guy drunk? Just didn't care? Line moving too fast?
The holes where the spot weld drill went all the way through are places where the spot welder
just barely caught the edge of the second panel.
Also note the red line showing the crappy alignment of the tail panel and trunk floor. I
guess the mandate in 1970s was slop seam sealer all over it and nobody will see it. But
wow this is bad even by the stereotypical stories of build quality being poor back in those
days.
Has anyone seen work like this on their car? Or did I just get the one built at the end of
the shift on a Friday? :notsure:
Major milestone achieved! :banana:
The rotted trunk floor/frame rails/rear floor assembly is free of the car! The "sled"
arrangement worked very well.
A few days drilling spot welds and undoing shoddy work from the factory and it was
ready to come out. Thought we had it free but it wouldn't come, found the small
"gotcha" of the metal tab under the rear floor (circled in red) that isn't present on
the new piece. Once those were cut on both sides it slid right out!
The new Dynacorn 6000WT trunk floor/frame rail assembly will be installed using
pretty much a reverse of the same process after cleaning up the leftovers of the
spot welds on the rockers and some other repairs.
Nice to see such a major change after chipping away at it for a while!
Out with the old, in with the new.... :veryexcited:
The new one feels heavier than the old one when carrying them. Perhaps the
50 years of weather-induced weight reduction had a noticeable effect...
Side by side comparison the factory piece looks like crap, like a bunch of backyard yahoos
forced it together with hammers and crowbars.
Finally some forward progress on this project... and a bit of a rant...
Let me begin by saying "at least we have new parts to complain about."
and "It could be worse... we could be cutting rusty barely usable pieces out of junkers
as our only source of parts."
SO, the latest batch of AMD parts leaves a bit to be desired.... The rocker panel end cap
is bent in the wrong place. The bend starts too early and well the result is obvious in the
picture. The leg is too short and the tail is too long. Won't work like that. That part is
fairly easy to fix though... just flatten it out and bend it again in the correct places.
But shouldn't have to do that.
Next we have the door hinge panels. The AMD outer one SEEMS OK, but the two inner ones I
received are horrible. Twisted and bent (they packed them that way, did not happen in shipping) and
has pieces in the wrong place. Such as one of the nut for the dash bolt is on the WRONG SIDE of
the panel. Easy enough to fix but shouldn't have to do that... And if only that was the worst of
the problems with those pieces---
On all four AMD pieces of door hinge supports (inner and outer) the locating notches are hopelessly
wrong. They don't even match on the AMD pieces. Seems like it went down like this:
BOSS: We need locating notches on these parts.
WORKER: Ok boss. Where should we put them?
BOSS: Anywhere you want. We just need notches.
:headbang:
Isn't a huge problem, but is a bit annoying. The other features of the panels are a
fair bit off from originals also. Don't they model these parts off from originals?
The AMD pieces do not fit together AT ALL. It is so bad that I am thinking to try to
save my original inner panels and only use the AMD outers, which are tolerable and
seem like they will fit with only mild coaxing. The inners I fully regret purchasing at
this point. :pullinghair:
This is why I try to do my disassembly in as non-destructive a manner as possible. If
you just bash your way through it and dig the old metal out without any care at all you
will not have an old part to compare the new one to. Then when the new one doesn't
fit correctly you do not have a way to help figure out why.
The progress I spoke of....
Peeling away the onion so the rocker panel can be replaced.
A bit rusty in there! Looks like caused by leaks at the bottom of the windshield
It's been a while since I checked in for some reason. Very impressed with your attention to detail. Sorry about the mismatched parts but you seem to be able to make the necessary corrections. Keep up the good work! :clapping:
Major milestone in the cancer surgery achieved....
Removal of the passenger side rocker panel completed and the new AMD rocker set into place for
test fit.
Original plan was to save the inner rocker and replace or patch the outer. That changed when it was
discovered that the new floor pan I ordered is 71-74 and this car was built with 70 floor and inner
rockers. Soooo.... we change it all. Probably a good thing in the long run judging by what was found
after I started digging.
The new inner/outer rocker pair fits reasonably well. It isn't perfect, but will only take minor massaging
to get it to fit properly. A huge difference from the piece of crap inner hinge panels AMD sent me. Those
are 100% junk.
This is where my slding rear frame/floor jig proves it's worth... I slide the rear clip out of the way
to make working room for rocker removal, and now I can slide it back in to check fit and alignment
against the new rocker.
Next steps here will be to continue the test fit making sure it plays properly with all of the other panels
which were purposely left undisturbed to serve as guides for the new rockers.
Also need to decide on what rust proofing to put on the interior of the rocker before welding the two halves
together.
Looking good brother!
:ohyeah:
Looking great! I'm pretty jealous of that sweet jig you have :bigthumb: