Hey guys,
I'm replacing my window motors on my 71 Challenger and I've encountered a small issue. I've attached 3 pics one with the new motor and one with the old motor which obviously match when you look at the pics. But the plate that goes over the gear has one small screw holding it in place before its finally bolted to the regulator.
As you can see in the pics the small screw hole is in a different location on the new motor. So my question to you is do I just modify the plate by drilling out the larger hole and then putting the small screw in the other other hole with a thin washer? What are your thoughts?
Thanks
Dave
I've not been lucky enough to have power windows on an e-body, so this is all new to me. But if they are not too expensive for the reman motors I would just drill the hole out and make it work. Maybe put a little blue loctite on them when install it too. :alan2cents:
A few questions for you... Are you adding relays? Cause if you aren't you should.... Are you locked into your new motors or can you return them?... FWIW When I first saw these new motors I had serious doubts, but I'd heard a few good reports so I bought one to try it out.... Since then I've bought seven more, I've fully converted one car & I'll be doing another very soon... These things seem to run twice as fast as the OE design.... I really new to shoot a video of my windows operating. I can rate or lower all four windows at the same time & from fully up to fully lowered on all four takes maybe five seconds.....
Yes I am running relays and I did purchase those motors first. I would have needed to modify the regulators heavily to get them to work and even then I wasn't sure the gears would line up perfectly. I posted that on the old Cuda Challenger site a long time ago and I didn't get a positive response to modifying the regulators.
I didn't need to modify anything. they bolted right up...... I don't doubt I would have posted a negative opinion of them initially but after trying them I gotta say I'm impressed....
What's the part number? What year car are you putting them in? They look like the exact ones that I bought. I wonder if convertible regulators are different? I know the glass is different. Thanks for the responses.
2 of each Dorman 742-300 & 742-301
70 Challenger R/T Convertible.....
Thanks I tried those and they didn't work. Weren't even close to lining up. Here is my post from the other site.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=116274.msg1140297#msg1140297
Looks like the ones you bought were the ACI's not the Dormans... No biggie, just saying they bolted right up for me & work great....
Were your bolt holes threaded like the originals? Mine weren't and like I said the holes didn't come close to matching up. It's very frustrating. That's why I bought the originals figuring no problem since I have the relay kit and now I have to modify the gear cover plate. It just doesn't make sense to me. :headbang:
I fell like I'm missing something???? Can you sense my frustraition??? :) I have to buy this stuff online and that takes more time and money. Don't know of anyone locally that sells them or I would try again.
Quote from: Daveh on May 10, 2017, 12:34:42 PM
Were your bolt holes threaded like the originals? Mine weren't and like I said the holes didn't come close to matching up. It's very frustrating. That's why I bought the originals figuring no problem since I have the relay kit and now I have to modify the gear cover plate. It just doesn't make sense to me. :headbang:
I fell like I'm missing something???? Can you sense my frustraition??? :) I have to buy this stuff online and that takes more time and money. Don't know of anyone locally that sells them or I would try again.
You may want to look at Rock Auto and see if they have what you need. Good prices, fast shipping. :alan2cents:
All my original 1970 motors work but I'm upgrading to the new motors for speed and reliability. I am following this thread for updates!
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Quote from: Blake@diyhemi.com on May 10, 2017, 02:58:34 PM
All my original 1970 motors work but I'm upgrading to the new motors for speed and reliability. I am following this thread for updates!
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If you want speed & reliability don't forget to add relays....
Quote from: Daveh on May 10, 2017, 12:34:42 PM
Were your bolt holes threaded like the originals? Mine weren't and like I said the holes didn't come close to matching up. It's very frustrating. That's why I bought the originals figuring no problem since I have the relay kit and now I have to modify the gear cover plate. It just doesn't make sense to me. :headbang:
I fell like I'm missing something???? Can you sense my frustraition??? :) I have to buy this stuff online and that takes more time and money. Don't know of anyone locally that sells them or I would try again.
Well first off the original motor you have isn't correct, the replacement is.... :unbelievable: I wish I'd taken allot of photos when I upgraded my car but I didn't, I'll try to do better on the next car for my buddy... I can go snap photos of my original motors if it would help, all four are unique but the replacements are the same front to rear but mirror image from side to side.... But on all of the originals the small screw is in the hole opposite the motor shaft...
I got my motors through Amazon, pretty cheap... The holes where the attaching screws go are not threaded but that area is plastic, I just reused my original bolts & they cut new threads without any problem...
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on May 10, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: Blake@diyhemi.com on May 10, 2017, 02:58:34 PM
All my original 1970 motors work but I'm upgrading to the new motors for speed and reliability. I am following this thread for updates!
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If you want speed & reliability don't forget to add relays....
Oh yes, I'm going to run them through a ron francis black box with independent relay functions for up and down, including auto-down function :)
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UPDATE:
Well I found a Pep Boys with the motor 742-300 that you suggested. I went and purchased it was excited brought it home and the holes aren't even close to lining up with my regulator. I just don't get it. It has to be something different with the convertible vs the hard top regulators. I guess I'm going to have to use the rebuilt units and fab a plate to make it work. Thanks for trying guys.
That makes no sense, the plate the motor mounts to has been used from around 65 through about 82.... The gears & arms are changed for different applications but the main mounting plate is the same... Could you post a picture?
I agree it's weird but that's what came on the car. I didn't take a picture of it and have it bolted into the car now. If I have to take it out I will take some pics. I have the same regulator on the drivers side which was in when I got the car and works fine.
However in my first post the two motors in the picture are the same with the exception of the hole orientation. The purple one is what was in the car. The regulator has 2 plates that attach to the teeth on the regulator and 3 bolts are attached on each side. The 2 plates are sandwiched on either side of the motor and bolted together.
I tried to take some pics with it in the car after I put it in.
That's an E body regulator.... However the motor is an odd duck... And I believe thats where all the confusion is coming from.... Normally the motor is turned 90 degrees from your installed position....
Photo obviously is rear regulators both coupe & convertible but see how the motor is turned 90 degrees from yours.... The other day when I commented on the small screw being in the wrong location was a clue.....
Quote from: 1 Wild R/T on May 11, 2017, 04:44:51 PM
Photo obviously is rear regulators both coupe & convertible but see how the motor is turned 90 degrees from yours.... The other day when I commented on the small screw being in the wrong location was a clue.....
The pictures Wild posted are spot on for E bodies. The books say there is a specific regulator for the verts, but back in the 80's I installed regulators out of a hard top into a vert and no cutting was required. Post pictures when/if you pull yours back out and will help diagnosis for you. :cheers:
I wonder if the motors are installed opposite on your car @Daveh . You may have passenger side motors on driver and vise versa. That could explain the clocked position you are seeing
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1 Wild R/T is correct the motors can't be swapped. They wouldn't fit in the regulator at all. I got everything in and here is some of the detail with a fun twist, NOT.
The motor was oriented correctly in the regulator if it wasn't then the bracket that attached to the end of the motor and then the inside of the door wouldn't match up. Everything lined up just fine. It's a little tricky to install the window when you're by yourself and you didn't remove the guts personally. Everything was in boxes when I got the car. You know how that goes. :) A second set of hands to hold the window while I lined everything up would have been great. I had to get a pair of my gloves with rubbery tips so I wouldn't drop the window. Thank goodness the other side was still in for reference. The trick for me was to leave the vertical bracket closest to the 1/4 panel off and left it inside the door while installing the window. So when I had the window stationary I just bolted the bracket in on the guide.
Now the twist. Remember this was a rebuilt motor. So as I was testing with my Power Probe and attempting to adjust the window the motor stopped intermittently and then stopped completely. :headbang: I thought I didn't power the motor up that much where it overheated. Maybe 5 times. I spent the next hour trying to figure this out. Then it hit me in the forehead literally. As I was looking inside the new wire that was soldered to the old one sticking out of the motor hit me in the face. Whoever soldered it did a crap job.
There is only about 3/4" of the old wire sticking out of the motor and very difficult to get to. But doable. So do I remove everything entirely and repair or try to fix it in place? I will probably do it in place because I don't feel like taking it all out. What's a few more curse words...
In the end I think Convertibles have different regulators because it fit in fine once I figured it all out. Remember the windows are different also.
It's late and I'm rambling. Thank you all for all of your comments and suggestions. As always you guys were a huge help.
Dave
So the aftermarket motors worked after all?
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70-71 Challenger & Barracuda power window regulator assembly with motor..... Front assemblies are the same whether a 23/27 or 29
If your not familiar with reading the Mopar Parts Manual all the same codes from fender tag reading pretty much apply...
J = Challenger
B = Barracuda
23 = Hardtop
27 = Convertible
29 = SE
And I let the bottom run long so the E body.org watermark didn't block the pertinent info.... So
R = Satellite
W = Coronet
I agree with Randy and the Parts Book.
E body door window regulators are either Barracuda manual, Challenger manual, or power, with no differences for convertibles on any of the door regulators.
Barracuda & Challenger use different manual regulators. The difference is the crank shaft length, due to the different interior panel design.
Barracuda manual regulators mount in different holes than Challenger manual regulators. (see attached pics)
The power regulators mount the same on Barracuda & Challenger, but in different holes than the manual regulators. (see attached pics)
The manual regulator has 58 teeth, while the power regulator has 56.
I've attached pics of both for comparison.
E body quarter window regulators are either Barracuda manual, Challenger manual, power hardtop, or power convertible.
Barracuda & Challenger use different manual regulators. The difference is the crank shaft length, due to the different interior panel design.
Barracuda manual regulators mount in the same holes as Challenger manual regulators. (see attached pic)
Barracuda & Challenger manual regulators are used in hardtops & convertibles. Nothing special about convertible manual regulators.
The power regulators mount the same on Barracuda & Challenger, but in different holes than the manual regulators. (see attached pic)
Because the power regulators mount differently than the manual regulators, the power regulators on convertibles need some extra clearance. Convertible quarter window power regulators are different than hardtop quarter window power regulators.
The convertible quarter window power regulators have some notches cut into them. The notches in the convertible regulators are to provide clearance for the wheelwell cap & the convertible well bracing, the standard regulator will work but the window doesn't quite roll all the way down. You can cut the notches into a hardtop quarter window power regulator to make it work better in a convertible.
The manual regulator has 46 teeth, while the power regulator has 56.
I've attached pics of them for comparison.
Awesome information thanks guys. I'm all set last night I dialed in the windows and they work great. Thanks for all of your help.
great info!
any details on the "scallop" cutting or notch for the vert regulator?
Unrelated question, but when I try to save these images they save as a jpg_thumb only and useless.
Quote from: larry4406 on May 13, 2017, 07:52:06 AM
any details on the "scallop" cutting or notch for the vert regulator?
Unrelated question, but when I try to save these images they save as a jpg_thumb only and useless.
Yes, quite a few details and pics of the notch for the convertible regulators was posted, including some measurements.
Under each picture is a link that you can click on to download the image. Try that, and see if it works better for you.
This is about as definitive of a thread as I've seen on E body power windows.... It needs to get archived.....
Thank You!
I had actually planned on making a more detailed power window thread, and just posted the stuff here that might help with the question.
There's also wiring diagrams, factory relay identification info, switch comparison pics, grommet sizes, etc.
If you look closely, there's two styles of convertible quarter regulators. One has a deeper section in the notching.
I had saved the info on that somewhere, but don't see it at the moment. I think it's an early vs late thing. Maybe 70 vs 71.
Any details on the circled scallop cutout?