E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Body Shop => Topic started by: Daveh on March 20, 2018, 08:52:26 AM

Title: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 20, 2018, 08:52:26 AM
Hey guys,

I'm dry fitting my shaker on my 71 Challenger (Bubble not painted yet) to make sure everything lines up well and I hit a snag.  I'm running a rebuilt small block 340. I did a Tremec TKO 600 conversion.  It all went fine with minor adjustments.  Everything is new and I mean everything.  So don't assume something is warn because it's not.  When I installed the shaker assembly on the new Edelbrock Performer intake (#21763) the shaker lines up well except for the passenger corner closest to the windshield, it dips lower (see pics).  The rest of the shaker is even.  It's sitting on top of a new Edelbrock Thunder series 650 carb (#1806). 

Some may say check the driveline angle.  That's not it the driveline angle is dead nuts on.  I'm thinking of just trying to bend that corner up just a bit to see that does anything.  I can only bend it so much because I don't want to kink it and then have a gap between the baseplate and shaker.  It's needs to be very subtle.

I have pictures below.  Has anyone ever experienced this?  If so what did you do to correct the dip or does anyone else have a recommendation on a fix?  As always I really appreciate all of your help.  Thanks

One more question how close does the baseplate come to the wiper motor.  Mine is right next to it with the shaker centered in the hood opening not leaving much room for the rubber gasket. 

Dave

Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Spikedog08 on March 20, 2018, 09:16:41 AM
Please post some more pictures of the shaker with the hood open and with out the bubble so we can see the baseplate . . .

:thinking:
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: anlauto on March 20, 2018, 10:00:05 AM
Once completely assembled and  bolted down firmly to the carb, you could try and give it a "tweek" by pulling up on the back corner and pushing down on the front at the same time...standing in the engine compartment crouched over the shaker :'(

Also with the seal in place the hood might push the shaker into a better position when closed....maybe.....but I doubt it.... :thinking:
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 20, 2018, 10:30:00 AM
Ok here are the pics without the bubble.  Remember this is a dry fit but that shouldn't make a difference if it's level it's lever with or without the gaskets.  The rest of the bubble seems to line up within a good tolerance. 
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 6bblgt on March 20, 2018, 10:51:38 AM
is engine square? choke blade/air horn doesn't look parallel with cowl - place a level across the valve covers
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 6bblgt on March 20, 2018, 10:53:24 AM
does adapter plate have any adjustment available forward?
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 76orangewagon on March 20, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
Quote from: anlauto on March 20, 2018, 10:00:05 AM
Once completely assembled and  bolted down firmly to the carb, you could try and give it a "tweek" by pulling up on the back corner and pushing down on the front at the same time...standing in the engine compartment crouched over the shaker

That's the approach I would take. put a level across the valve covers with the shaker base off and then with the shaker base on place the level across the back and see if you get the same reading on the level, if not then the stamped metal base needs some adjustments.
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 20, 2018, 11:45:59 AM
Here is the pic with the level on the valve covers.  I put a smaller level across the base plate with the same results. It's a hair off center not even a 1/16" barely noticeable.  I verified that the tires were inflated properly and I measured from the floor to the wheel lip and they are all the same. 

So what's next?????    :dunno:
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Racer57 on March 20, 2018, 01:54:42 PM
If the engine, shaker base, etc are all level, then the only thing left is the hood. Does it line up the same on both rear corners in relation to the fenders ? If they are, then had the fenders been taken off and not properly re-aligned which then throws off the fender to hood alignment ?  I've never had a fender off so I don't really have a clue about it. Just thinking out of the box.
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 20, 2018, 02:26:03 PM
The fenders and hood AMD are new.  They were installed by an old school body man that's been doing muscle cars for 40 years.  He's a friend of mine and is meticulous about everything.  But to answer you question everything is aligned and level we double checked that almost at every step as we assembled the car.  Besides it's just the one corner the rest is aligned fine.

I think the general consensus is that I should try tweaking the base plate slightly.  I can't see any other option????   
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: mopar jack on March 20, 2018, 06:35:11 PM
I would put a regular round air filter on the carb that should clear the hood and see how it lines up.
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Chryco Psycho on March 20, 2018, 06:45:02 PM
To me it looks like the whole right side is low with the shaker bubble on the right side looks low & the base looks low on the right side in the picture with the hood open & the just the base but if the engine is level the base could be mis-stamped a bit , I would tweak the center section of the base more than the outer part , have you checked to see if the crab ring is level with the out edge of the stamping by putting a straight edge across the carb ring & measuring the height distance at the edge ?
The wiper motor clearance is what it is , there is no adjustment & it looks normal  :alan2cents:
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: RUNCHARGER on March 20, 2018, 06:46:27 PM
I think the bubble is sitting too high. If your engine is not perfectly level in the chassis I would shim one motor mount. If the engine is sitting perfectly level in the chassis then I would massage the shaker baseplate.
I check level on the rad support and cowl then off the carb mounting flange on the intake manifold.
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: nsmall on March 20, 2018, 09:43:19 PM
I have nothing for you, but this is my first peek at your ride.  Great work, looking most excellent Dave  :bradsthumb:
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 21, 2018, 06:12:46 AM
Thanks Nsmall it's been a long road but it's really coming together.

I've figured out that if I put a little black foam insulation between the two baseplates on the left side it will give me the height that I need and you will never see it to look at the car.  That way I can still use the gasket between the bubble and the baseplate without issues.  I think that's the best solution unless someone else has another idea. 
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on March 21, 2018, 07:35:44 AM
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 20, 2018, 10:51:38 AM
is engine square? choke blade/air horn doesn't look parallel with cowl - place a level across the valve covers

This... Except cut a piece of wood to lay across the bolt flanges of the fenders & measure down to each valve cover....  You say its only the rear corner but clearly the front is low on the passenger side too... 

It's worse in the rear because your trans hangs to low like all the Tremec conversions when people avoid cutting the floor...

Get the engine a little closer to level side to side & tweak the air cleaner front to back...
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Brads70 on March 21, 2018, 07:36:15 AM
Wouldn't cost much to make a 1/8" shim , loosen the motor mount and try that?  Square 1/8" plate the size of the rubber, drill a hole and then with a hacksaw/jigsaw cut a slot so you end up with a u shaped shim, loosen mount, jack up engine, then slide it in. If it doesn't work your out a dollar or so.  :)
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 21, 2018, 07:59:21 AM
I didn't avoid cutting the floor.  In fact I did cut the floor out and burned in a new 4 speed hump to clear the trans.  Remember from my original post that my driveline angles were spot on and I'm not sure I want to mess with them. 
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on March 21, 2018, 09:30:27 AM
Throw a 2x4 across the fender bolt flanges & measure to the valve covers.... :alan2cents:
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 21, 2018, 10:03:40 AM
I put a level across the fenders and the bubble was dead center however the passenger side of the engine was about 1/4" lower than the drivers side.

I like the shimming the motor mount idea but I don't really have much room to do that.  I used a grade 8 lock nut with a flat washer on the motor mount bolt and that only leaves me 2-3 threads remaining.  I guess I could go with a regular nut which is shallower but then I would need a lock washer so still the same outcome.   :notsure:
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on March 21, 2018, 10:19:41 AM
Loctite is your friend.. Also the passenger side mount is always under compression except when the car is in reverse.... Drivers side mount is under tension when you accelerate in a forward gear...
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 21, 2018, 10:31:54 AM
Ok Ill fab up a plate the size of the rubber and put it on top of the rubber isolator then bolt it down. 
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: YellowThumper on March 21, 2018, 12:05:03 PM
Quote from: Daveh on March 20, 2018, 11:45:59 AM
Here is the pic with the level on the valve covers.  I put a smaller level across the base plate with the same results. It's a hair off center not even a 1/16" barely noticeable.  I verified that the tires were inflated properly and I measured from the floor to the wheel lip and they are all the same. 

So what's next?????    :dunno:

I also agree the carb looks tilted in comparison to firewall top edge.
As a comparison I would also check level to the fender top edges. This takes the floor and wheel opening out of equation. I added solid mounts to mine. To check level I placed a bar spanning the engine compartment. It rested on inside of fender lip where it bolts on. Then I measured from it to the valve covers. No levels just measurements.

Good luck
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 6bblgt on March 21, 2018, 01:35:57 PM
it's possible you could loosen all the motor mount bolts (engine & K-frame) and manipulate the engine's position with out adding a spacer
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on March 21, 2018, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 21, 2018, 01:35:57 PM
it's possible you could loosen all the motor mount bolts (engine & K-frame) and manipulate the engine's position with out adding a spacer

I agree, there is allot of movement available by just loosening the two motor mount to K member bolts..... Most folks just drop it together & they are happy when all the bolts go in.... But there is room to adjust... Heck, just loosen those two bolts a couple turns, fire up the engine, set the parking brake hard, put the car in reverse & give it a little throttle & slip the clutch a little... Shut it off & recheck how the engine is sitting....  Probably high on the passenger side... But now you know if it's in the range of adjustability...

As long as the through bolts are still in the mounts the engine can shift but it can't really go anywhere...
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: HEMICUDA on March 21, 2018, 03:44:53 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on March 21, 2018, 01:35:57 PM
it's possible you could loosen all the motor mount bolts (engine & K-frame) and manipulate the engine's position with out adding a spacer

You are correct Danny.  Loosen the motor mounts and jack up the passenger side.
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 21, 2018, 04:26:10 PM
Then that's what I will try and keep you all posted.  Thanks
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: RUNCHARGER on March 21, 2018, 06:46:14 PM
I forgot about that as well. It won't take much at the motor mount to affect the shaker quite a bit. I generally loosen both through bolts and then hook a chain to the low side and lift with an engine hoist.
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: Daveh on March 22, 2018, 08:34:09 AM
OK I have it fixed I'd say 95%.   :veryexcited:  And I'm great with that.  Here's what I did.  Since I didn't have the luxury of starting the car since I still have to put the intake on.  I loosened up the motor mount bolts.  What a PIA with the engine and accessories installed then I gently put the cherry picker on the engine side that needed to be raised (Passenger) and put a nylon strap around the motor mount and pulled up and left it hanging there for an hour.  NOTE: Having a car running with the vibration would have been good but there was no way to do that. 

So after an hour I went back and tightened up the drivers side then the passenger side.  Again a PIA.  then let the hoist down and the level across the valve covers was exactly in the middle.  I installed the baseplate and bubble and everything lined up great.  It wasn't a lot but it made a huge difference in the way the baseplate and bubble lined up.

Thanks all for all of your suggestions.  I'm glad I didn't go hacking everything up and thought it through with your help. 

Dave
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: YellowThumper on March 22, 2018, 05:11:18 PM
Glad it is working out and this great site came thru.

Mike.
Title: Re: Minor Shaker Question I think With Pics
Post by: HP_Cuda on March 23, 2018, 11:28:35 AM
 :twothumbsup:

Just a good ole jostling with the motor mounts!