Opinions Wanted: 100% Restoration vs. Modified

[chargerdon]

Me personally i have never attended a Barrett-Jackson or Mecum classic car auction.   Locally, buyers are more interested in the way the vehicle is equipped and looks and runs, than if it is all original or not.

My 74 challenger came to me with an salvage yard rebuilt 360...  not origonal 318.   Since then i have rebuilt the 360 into a 408 stroker, with a 518 overdrive transmission, and replaced the original 2.76 open differential with a 3.23 limited slip differential.  Its a blast to drive and recently clocked a 4.99 0-60 run.

Interior is pretty much stock with reupholstered white buckets, and replaced the AM radio with a Sony AM/FM stereo and added rear speakers to the package shelf.  The factory air conditioner has been replaced with a Vintage Air system.   

Exterior it how has a gorgeous FC7 Plum Crazy paint job with the 1970 white tape stripe down the side.   

MUCH MUCH better car than the original all white 318 with the 3sp 509 torqueflite and 2.76 diff...   

TO each their own, im now 78 and will have it till i die so resale value doesnt count at all.   Still ill bet i could easily get $35 for it vs about $20 for an all original 318 in white. 

[Katfish]

You need to be honest with yourself and how you plan to use the car.
My friend has a Hemi Challenger clone and a numbers matching 440-6 Cuda, they sit in the garage and rarely come out.
I always try to get him to bring 1 or the other to the annual Garlits show, but it's the same answer.
"That's a 3hr drive" 
So he drives his 2000 Mustang to my house, and I'm so happy to get in my Gen3 swapped beater and ride.  I'm always trying to find ways to drive my car more.
I will admit, if I had the money invested in paint and body like some of you guys, I'd probably be more hesitant too.

[JH27N0B]

You need to be honest with yourself and how you plan to use the car.
My friend has a Hemi Challenger clone and a numbers matching 440-6 Cuda, they sit in the garage and rarely come out.
I always try to get him to bring 1 or the other to the annual Garlits show, but it's the same answer.
"That's a 3hr drive" 
So he drives his 2000 Mustang to my house, and I'm so happy to get in my Gen3 swapped beater and ride.  I'm always trying to find ways to drive my car more.
I will admit, if I had the money invested in paint and body like some of you guys, I'd probably be more hesitant too.

I did a concours restoration of my T/A I've owned since HS, and it rarely comes out of the garage.  It's a show queen and quite frankly between the clutch and manual steering, driving it is more of a burden than pleasure and I worry about it when it's out of sight if I go wandering off at a show.
I'm fortunate I own several cars, and after decades of experience with shows and cruises, I have figured out how I like to roll.  My convertible with power steering and automatic, and more recently after purchasing my Magnum with T tops, they are my cars I really like taking to local shows and cruise nights.
I used to have a '09 Challenger R/T, and last year bought a leftover last call Scat Pack Challenger and they are super pleasurable to drive, including road trips.  But then I feel guilty at a show having yet another late model wasting valuable space on the car show field where a 40-70 year old classic should be!

[Racer57]

Imho, the only people that care about 100% oem and will pay the money are the ones that sell at the big auctions. Otherwise its your car, do what you want, not what you think other people want.

[pschlosser]

@70_440-6Cuda as others suggest, it's your car, it's your call, do what you want.  But I commend you for asking and doing what you can to be informed.  If you decide to go one way or the other, at least you'll have some idea how (if at all) the value of your car may be impacted.

[ec_co]

@JH27N0B you piqued my curiosity with the Magnum comment. Are we talking 78/79? Or the newer one? I had a 79, it's one of the few cars that I regret letting go. It was the factory black and silver two-tone paint that they used in their advertising, no t-tops but it did have a 360 four barrel, I tore out the lean burn system and put an MSD6a box in it that helped wake it up. I've looked off and on for years but have never found another with the same paint job

[torredcuda]

Do you plan on showing the car at local car shows?
This is where it gets interesting.
Hard core Mopar people will appreciate the money/time it went into keeping the car in its original state and vote accordingly.
On the other hand, the average car show spectator doesn't care at all about that. They'll vote for the car that appeals to them based mostly on the cool factor. Almost all of the local car shows fall into this category.
There are a few shows around my area that still break the cars into modified and unmodified categories, but that number is getting smaller every year. Lumping the cars into a single category gets rid of all the arguments over what constitutes original. Sometimes those arguments get more heated than they should so I can see why the shows go this route.

Unless the car is a numbers matching car already worth big $$, my advise would be to do what makes you happy. Forget about looking at the car as an investment, it's not. Anyone that tells you otherwise is delusional.

   

IMO if your are building a car to get cheap plastic trophies at local shows you are doing it for the wrong reasons, but I do know of a few guys that live for that so what do I know!    Of course restoring a car to a high level for national judging is a whole different thing and I can appreciate all the work that goes into that. As far as an investment some of these cars have and still will appreciate in value it just depends when you bougth/restored them and how much money you put into it.

[BZaar]

As somebody who just completed a 3yr. VERY expensive complete rotisserie restoration on my numbers matching AAR Cuda, I would say your thinking sounds right to me.  The fact that your engine is not original to the car (IMO) gives you the freedom to build it the way YOU want it. I've always thought that what you start with sort of dictates where you can go with the car.  I love my original car, but I've seen some very nice modified cars too that most of us would love to have.  If you want vinyl top - do it !

[70_440-6Cuda]

Hey thanks all!  This is the discussion I was after!  As @pschlosser said, it was all about being informed and getting a feel for what if any impact there would be long term.  I knew the experienced folks here would have some insight.

I expect the extent of my driving will be weekend fun around town, maybe Friday drive to work type stuff.  I don't envision long road trips, although I do have dreams of Carlisle one day...

@EV2RTSE the FAST cars was interesting, learned something new, thank you!  Also some real.food for thought on handling.

I am going to build the car according to the broadcast sheet with as many original Mopar parts as I can get.  So original restored, not concourse grease marks etc.  going to build the engine with a big cam and nasty exhaust and run the factory 6 pack, and an OD trans so it will look very close to stock and have that high school hot rod vibe I am looking for.  If anyone wants to go the distance and make it perfectly original, I have everything to do that and it is a matter of engine, trans and exhaust swap.

Starting to see the vision come together and getting a bit more fun now that there is some real progress

[torredcuda]

I have similar decisions with my `70 road runner I`m currently restoring. It came with the numbers matching 383 block but no transmission and is just a very low option 383, 727 car. I already have the numbers 383 built with ported 906 heads, larger cam etc. for a bit more HP but nothing too crazy as I want it to be a nice cruiser. I am painting back to it`s original FC7 In-Violet but it came with black interior and, I REALLY like white with the FC7 so I may change it and the next owner (when I`m dead) could always change it back. I am also going to add the air grabber hood, Dust Trail and trunk stripes to dress it up a bit - all things that could be easily reversed if someone ever wanted to.

[7E-Bodies]

@pschlosser I do have the original Broadcast sheet, but no fender tag unfortunately.  I have posted it in another thread, but here ya go...

Both cowl and radiator VIN stamps match.  While I do have a Broadcast sheet, and a very cool (in my opinion) list of options, the car is not "original" as over it's life it has been highly modified, so at best it is an "accurate" restoration.  And while it will always have some higher value as a factory original V code with great options, it is not a 100 point date code correct restoration - I dont have the patience or money for that.

Your feedback is helpful in deciphering what makes sense and doesn't.  I plan on making the car nice, and as accurate as I can, but to your point, I dont want a $50k paint job and be afraid to take it out of the garage.

Kind of looking at it like if I ever HAD to sell it, did I adversely affect the value by a huge margin making those bolt on changes if I have the original parts to go with it - really semantics I suppose, I just like hearing how others would perceive the finished product

You can get a fender tag made since you have the build sheet.

[JH27N0B]

@JH27N0B you piqued my curiosity with the Magnum comment. Are we talking 78/79? Or the newer one? I had a 79, it's one of the few cars that I regret letting go. It was the factory black and silver two-tone paint that they used in their advertising, no t-tops but it did have a 360 four barrel, I tore out the lean burn system and put an MSD6a box in it that helped wake it up. I've looked off and on for years but have never found another with the same paint job
[/quote

@JH27N0B you piqued my curiosity with the Magnum comment. Are we talking 78/79? Or the newer one? I had a 79, it's one of the few cars that I regret letting go. It was the factory black and silver two-tone paint that they used in their advertising, no t-tops but it did have a 360 four barrel, I tore out the lean burn system and put an MSD6a box in it that helped wake it up. I've looked off and on for years but have never found another with the same paint job

Mines a '78.  The leather drivers seat is like sitting on your couch on a Sunday afternoon!

[autoxcuda]

I like them to look stock as they can. I also don't want to be humiliated in a brief acceleration contest. If I owned your car I would retain the vinyl roof as it's part of it's heritage. I would make sure the engine had at least stock beans (and maybe a bit more). A painted aluminum intake and coated headers would likely be the plan and I would run stock looking and painted 440 source heads that had been worked. I would also add a stock based electronic ignition. All of that could be easily undone but would increase the enjoyment of the car. That's only my opinion of course and everyone has a different one.
 I wouldn't do an OD trans, instead I would build an engine and rear axle combo that would make the best use of the original trans setup. 440's are easy to build for torque rather than horsepower and that works well with a simple transmission. A higher strung smallblock or modern engine benefits more from having a 13 speed with a splitter.

I agree.

To me the x-factor is a stroker motor. You can't see the crankshaft.

500" or 528" 440 based motor
ported 440 Source Stealth heads
stock six pack setup
stock valve covers
9.5-9.7: 1 compression
TTI step headers (bolt on)
2 1/2 TTI exhaust system (bolt on)
cam: something around 240-245 @050 with 110 lobe sep.
stock 18 trans
3.23 or 3.55 gears
hide the electronic ignition box under the battery tray, under dash.
275-295/50/15 rear street drag radial tires

That will be 500+ horsepower and torque, 110 lobe sep will give you good vacuum and good idle vacuum signal for easier tuning.

suspension:
1 1/4" front sway bar (bolt on)
rear sway bar that will work with Dana rear (bolt on)
Bilstein RCD shocks with stickers pulled off and then painted black (bolt on)
rubber bushings
offset moog 7103 upper control arm bushings install for more caster
If you have power steering: firm feel rebuilt power steering box

Noticeable handling difference but still has weight transfer. If you want better handling with 1" torsion bars, the weight transfer suffers.

At 500+ HP/TQ, the your tire grip on the street is your limiting factor. 

I would call this a Restified car. Aka lightly modified. I see them all the time at Spring/Fall Fling show. We even have a class for them at Spring and it's the most popular class.

Guy in our car club has this basic setup in a 69 Road Runner 4spd with unported E-brock heads, 500" RB, M1 single plane intake. He told us Sunday he got into it with a new Scat Pack 392 Challenger and he was with him the whole way. Scat Pack driver was surprised!

[Katfish]

As I get older, I wonder why these type of builds go for big HP?  It makes the car even less fun to drive.
If the car is just going to sit in the garage, trailered to local shows, or driven to get ice cream every other month, why?
Bragging rights, who do you tell?
Don't be the guy that comes up to me at the gas station, "I have a 70 Cuda it has 500hp".............
I will admit, no one has ever said they currently have it, it's always, "I used to have........."

[torredcuda]

I I know some do drive them hard but I`ve seen guys asking about combos for 6-800 HP stroker big blocks and when asked what they are using the car for they respond with "going to car shows and taking the kids for ice cream".  I have a couple friends with pretty big HP 440s but they hardly ever use 50% of that power and I drive way harder in my little cast head, small cam, 350-375 HP 340.