plum crazy paint problem

[chargerdon]

My 74 Challenger in Plum Crazy (FC7) took a parking lot hit while sitting at a car show.   Its been in the repair shop now for over two months and they have finished the body repair but are having severe difficulty in matching the paint.   

The car was originally painted about 5 years ago and the painter used Sherwin Williams paint, and it is a gorgeous Plum Crazy. 

The repair shop did a great job straightening out the drivers front fender and header panel and put on a new valance.   Problem is it just isn't even close to matching the rest of the car.  When standing in front of the car the repainted front fender appears to be at least two shades darker/bluer than the hood next to it !!   Originally they said color match wouldnt be an issue as they have a spectrometer gun to give an exact formula.  Problem is their guns data base doesnt go back that old so they did NOT get a formula for it.   I told them the paint is Sherwin Willions FC7 and they went by that.   The paint they use is some brand i never heard of but supposedly made by Dupont.  They brought in "paint representatives to get the formula right" but it simply isnt even close.   

The funny part about it is that standing in front of the car with it parked in strong noon sunlight it appears to be at least two shades too dark and blue.  However stand on the drivers side and look across the top of the fender and it DOES appear to match.   I.E. one direction looks way to dark, but the other looking across looks like it matches.   

So, the questions i have are two fold:
1)  What cause it to look different from the front as opposed to looking across?   Is it that the formula is wrong or have they sprayed it wrong...too much air pressure or not enough..  I know that metallic paint has to be sprayed just right or the metallic could be laying down ?? 

2) Does anyone have the exact formula for the original FC7.   Im not worried about it being an exact match as the original factory as i am giving the green light to paint the entire car (at a higher price) as it had picked up a few light scratches and chips...but i want it to be Plum Crazy not some other color and certainly not looking different depending on how you look at it.   

Help please !!      The shop says they will show me the spray out card before painting.   

[Marty]

It sounds like they used a paint product call NASON. It was a budget paint system sold under Dupont Chroma Base now Axalta Cromax. Unfortunately, Nason is not an OEM paint system on its own. In that case it's very difficult to match/blend it with any other paint systems. The toners are a lower quality than the OEM style toners. They will get a close look to Plum Crazy using less toners rather than getting an OEM match using added quality toners.

Nason = 4 toners vs. Diamont = 7 toners to get the same color.

Using less toners gets the price low. I bought a gallon of Diamont Sublime a while back that went for $1200 a gallon. The budget price was $350 a gallon.

Budget paints are good paints if applied properly and they can look fantastic. They're used mostly for overall paint jobs rather than collision work unless you use the same system to blend the repair.

They cannot be tinted to match/blend either.

I would find a Nason supplier and have a half pint mixed up. Then have the shop make a spray out card and see if it matches. Oreilly's I believe sells NASON.

[Mr Cuda]

I feel for you. Color match is always a pain.
I have an old product line Glasurit mixing bank, and the old car formulas are on microfiche.
 I mixed up fc7 and it was a dead match to the inside of a door.
 The new toners and metallics are just different. PPG doesn't even have metallic in the sublime formula. How is that ever going to match or even look right.
 How do you ship paint?

 

[torredcuda]

I agree with Marty if they used Nason it is a cheaper line of paint system NOT top quality. Also different manufacturers can use different toners to get the same color and may be close but never a perfect match .I had a metallic blue Jeep years ago I painted 4-5 times and had the same problem - straight on looked good but angular view it didn`t match. Did they blend it out into adjacent panels? I would make them repaint it using Sherwin Williams paint, have them do a spray out first to see if they can better match.

[chargerdon]

I agree with Marty if they used Nason it is a cheaper line of paint system NOT top quality. Also different manufacturers can use different toners to get the same color and may be close but never a perfect match .I had a metallic blue Jeep years ago I painted 4-5 times and had the same problem - straight on looked good but angular view it didn`t match. Did they blend it out into adjacent panels? I would make them repaint it using Sherwin Williams paint, have them do a spray out first to see if they can better match.

No they didnt blend into adjacent panels...they wanted me to see it first.  Its not just that it doesnt match, i dont like the shade when looking straight on.   

At this point we agreed that the best thing to do is to repaint the entire car and that he is going to work more on the paint and do a spray out card and have me look at it before proceeding.  Of course i also agreed to about a $2,000 increase in original estimate to do the full repaint...thats ok as there are some places on the car with chips and scratches that this will correct.   But, im worried that its going to be the right FC7 .  I think im going to go back down and take some pictures. 

[torredcuda]

Do you know what paint system they are using or can you find out? If doing a full re-paint at least you don`t have to worry about matching what is on the car now. They can use the actual formula for FC7 as long as their paint system has one that will match the factory color.

[chargerdon]

Went to my body repair shop today. 

Indeed their trying as they had about 7 different spray out cards that they had tried and 2-3 of them looked close enough that with a FULL car paint job should look approximately what FC7 should.   Yes, indeed they use Nason Axalta paint.   

They also told me that an axalta paint specialist was coming this thursday and hopefully he has come up with a formula that will truely look the same.  If so then theu should be able to blend into the neighbor panels and get it to look great.  If not well then we have decisions to make.  I had personally painted onto my 66 Charger some paint stripes that i did myself, with PPG OMNI paint.   They did a spray out card with it for me while i waited.   It looks closer to my eyes but not exact.

We agreed to wait for the factory axalta paint to see what it looks like and they will call me to come and take a look and decide.

I priced PPG Omni and a sprayable 4 qts of their FC7 is would run $136 for 2 qts of the base with toners and then $53 for the reducer mixed at 1 to 1 to give a total of 4 qts sprayable for $190. 

If i looked at Deltron its approximately x 4 for the base or $550 for 2 qts plus $53 for reducer for $600.  Then of course there is the clearcoat that will have to go one either of them.   

My conclusion is wait for the factory guy to try to get a closer match and if so just repaint the two panels plus blend in and save a lot of money.   If it wont be close enough to do that then do a full repaint job.  From all ive read the biggest problem with either the OMNI or the Nason is that in the future should i need to have work done on the car again (heaven forbid) that both the OMNI and the Nason will vary in color and matching is difficult.   Whereas if i have the car painted in PPG Deltron then the process is easier for the future.   HMMM   

They all seem to agree that the better quality Deltron will last longer...but...hey im 77 and the car is kept garaged so i dont see that as a benefit.

 

[70_440-6Cuda]

If it were me I would spend a few extra bucks for the best paint that looks right - you cant hide from poorly blended or off colors.  I suppose it depends on the overall cost difference, but if you can get a quality repaint out of the deal for a couple thousand more that would be worth it to me - no paint chips, the right color and added value to the car as a whole.  I understand cost is always an issue, but for me the overall result outweighs the cost, especially since it seems you have a great shop you are working with

[chargerdon]

If it were me I would spend a few extra bucks for the best paint that looks right - you cant hide from poorly blended or off colors.  I suppose it depends on the overall cost difference, but if you can get a quality repaint out of the deal for a couple thousand more that would be worth it to me - no paint chips, the right color and added value to the car as a whole.  I understand cost is always an issue, but for me the overall result outweighs the cost, especially since it seems you have a great shop you are working with

I agree now the question is whose paint ?   Body shop still feels that they can get a close match with their NASON paint so that a complete paint job should work.  However, I don't want to "cheapen" the paint job and end up with one difficult to match should the need arise in the future.   

I have priced out (my costs) three paints...first being PPG Omni it would be around $200 for a gallon of sprayable plus the clearcoat. We already did a spray out card and it looks ok but not great.   

Next would be PPG Deltron which would be around $600+tax for gallon of sprayable.  WOW triple the cost.  I can buy a 1/2 pint to do a spray out card for $48.  This is i believe the probable choice...quality while not ridiculous. 

Last would be Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 which is what was used on the car when it was painted 6 years ago.  WOW a gallon of sprayable would be $982 plus tax !!   1/2 pint to do a spray out would be a whopping $298.  Wish is was less for the 1/2 pint as since it was what was used 6 years ago might be able to buy just enough to "match and blend" just the affected areas instead of painting the entire car. 

The body shop is supposed to have the NASON/Axalta paint rep in on monday to try again.  Will probably be going down to discuss with him.   

[70_440-6Cuda]

If it were me I would spend a few extra bucks for the best paint that looks right - you cant hide from poorly blended or off colors.  I suppose it depends on the overall cost difference, but if you can get a quality repaint out of the deal for a couple thousand more that would be worth it to me - no paint chips, the right color and added value to the car as a whole.  I understand cost is always an issue, but for me the overall result outweighs the cost, especially since it seems you have a great shop you are working with

I agree now the question is whose paint ?   Body shop still feels that they can get a close match with their NASON paint so that a complete paint job should work.  However, I don't want to "cheapen" the paint job and end up with one difficult to match should the need arise in the future.   

I have priced out (my costs) three paints...first being PPG Omni it would be around $200 for a gallon of sprayable plus the clearcoat. We already did a spray out card and it looks ok but not great.   

Next would be PPG Deltron which would be around $600+tax for gallon of sprayable.  WOW triple the cost.  I can buy a 1/2 pint to do a spray out card for $48.  This is i believe the probable choice...quality while not ridiculous. 

Last would be Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 which is what was used on the car when it was painted 6 years ago.  WOW a gallon of sprayable would be $982 plus tax !!   1/2 pint to do a spray out would be a whopping $298.  Wish is was less for the 1/2 pint as since it was what was used 6 years ago might be able to buy just enough to "match and blend" just the affected areas instead of painting the entire car. 

The body shop is supposed to have the NASON/Axalta paint rep in on monday to try again.  Will probably be going down to discuss with him.   

My thought would be if you are already happy with the S-W Ultra 7000, just go with that.  While the most expensive, its only $400 bucks compared to your "likely" choice a product with which you dont have experience.  For $400 dollars seems like a small delta for something you already have experience and been happy with.  good luck and keep us posted!