71 Challenger RT

[7212Mopar]

Cars get restored even faster on TV. Looks like a lot is sealant was used at the end of the trunk floor meeting up the tail panel.

[6pack]

maybe swapped tags to another car?

[70 Challenger Lover]

The seller has only been on eBay a couple months. Another possibility....maybe something isn't right here.

[anlauto]

Reguardless of the before pictures, the time frame the restoration was done it, the quality of the restoration...
The guy is only asking $40K for the car which I think is a decent price for what I see in the ad pictures...OF COURSE a personal inspection is required unless $40K means nothing big to you...


If the guy flipped out the restoration in six months and was expecting to cash out at $80K...that's a different story, but there's a lot of people here that say they want to fix their car up to "driver" quality and enjoy driving the wheels off of it.....well guess what......here's a driver quality car you can do that with...and probably for the same or even less that you will invest in fixing your rusty car.

[RUNCHARGER]

That's true Alan: The car looks like it was pretty darn solid to begin with. As long as the holes weren't duct taped and bondoed over and the repairs were done halfway correctly it looks like a good driver. I would like to see photos of how the rust was repaired but if it was across town I think I could figure out if I wanted to own it pretty quick.

[blown motor]

Well said Alan.

The seller has only been on eBay a couple months. Another possibility....maybe something isn't right here.

So what if he's only been on eBay a couple months? Maybe he bought the car to fix and flip. So he joined eBay, bought a bunch of parts, did a driver quality restoration, which is why he's not asking 80K, and now he's trying to sell it.

[70 Challenger Lover]

Well said Alan.

The seller has only been on eBay a couple months. Another possibility....maybe something isn't right here.

So what if he's only been on eBay a couple months? Maybe he bought the car to fix and flip. So he joined eBay, bought a bunch of parts, did a driver quality restoration, which is why he's not asking 80K, and now he's trying to sell it.

Seriously? Why does eBay put that information out there? Because it allows bidders to make more informed decisions. I'm far more likely to make a deal with the seller who has been around for ten years with a proven track record. I'm more cautious with a new seller. eBay even warns customers to be cautious with new sellers. People who commit fraud are not allowed to remain on eBay so they set up new accounts. And they buy a few small items the first couple months so they don't have a feedback rating of zero. This seller is new with no meaningful feedback. Feel free to trust him if you like. I don't. I would actually trust him more if he said exactly what you just said, "Bought this car to flip, did a driver quality resto, and opened a new account to make the sale." There is nothing wrong with that because it is the truth and honest people do that sort of thing often. Dishonest people create BS ads like he did.

Look at the pics from page one. It's obviously the same car and it is in really bad shape. It clearly required a ton of new metal. But his ad said nothing about that. In fact, he said it was in great shape before the restoration. If he were honest and merely flipping it, he could simply state that the car had some metal work done. That is expected in fifty year old cars and is usually not a deal killer. Being caught lying as he did is a deal killer in my book. It should be a deal killer for anyone who doesn't like being swindled. The whole story about the owner having MS is complete crap but you're free to swallow that if you like.

I posted this simply as a warning to any potential buyer who might be on the site. Most of us would see the car in person but some people do not. Some buy the car based on the ad and arrange long distance transport. That is completely normal in the eBay world. Am I saying this is 100% fraud without a doubt? No, I'm saying there are a lot of red flags here that I thought deserved scrutiny. Perhaps I am wrong.

Does everyone here really believe the car shown in the pics on page one can go from a hunk of rusty crap to what we see advertised on eBay in just a few months? And that the rusty car was actually bought by some guy who restored it in record time then discovered he had MS immediately afterward? And that his MS advanced so quickly that he had to quickly put it on the market? And he couldn't list it himself so he had someone with a NEW eBay account do it for him? And he felt the need to put up two separate eBay ads, one as a Charger and one as a Challenger?

Every day, I see members in here pick out the tiniest of details from a single photo and fill in all blanks based on those tiny details yet here is one oddity after another and so many are finding plausible explanations in all of it. If I ever find myself in court, I hope some of you folks sit on my jury and nod in agreement as I spit out ridiculous stories in my defense.

[anlauto]

Actually you asked if it was legit.....to me what I see is a car selling for $40K that is likely worth $40K .....reading more into the guy's story or the history of the car is just a waste of time....


You go and inspect the car, or send someone to inspect the car, or buy it based on pictures....if you decide it's worth the asking price...you buy it pretty simple.....whether or not the car was a rust bucket three months ago, whether or not someone has MS, whether or not the seller is new to eBay,  shouldn't matter if you like what you see. You're buying the car, not the story....

[aussiemark]

I wouldn't call it a rust bucket most of it looks ok, sandblast all the rusted areas and go for it. That rust hole in the sail panel is the ugliest part but easy to repair, most of the original metal could be saved. Most of the rust is in the floor easy to repair and looking at the frame rails the water got in and the floor rusted from the inside so the rails are still solid. Best part is you can study the Craigslist photos and know what areas to check and see if the repairs are acceptable or crap.

[RUNCHARGER]

Exactly: IMO that body was pretty clean and as long as it was repaired properly it would be good. It's a car you have to look at carefully is all. I'm pretty sure I could have welded new panels on that car in about a week. Alan could assemble it in a week so three months is entirely plausible. It's just a worry that bondo was slewn at it in a hurry is all.
The cars that are truly scary are the eastern oceonside cars where there is rust on everything from the framerails to the roof structure.

[70 Challenger Lover]

Actually you asked if it was legit.....to me what I see is a car selling for $40K that is likely worth $40K .....reading more into the guy's story or the history of the car is just a waste of time....


You go and inspect the car, or send someone to inspect the car, or buy it based on pictures....if you decide it's worth the asking price...you buy it pretty simple.....whether or not the car was a rust bucket three months ago, whether or not someone has MS, whether or not the seller is new to eBay,  shouldn't matter if you like what you see. You're buying the car, not the story....

Well I guess technically you are right if we are gonna start splitting hairs here. It does appear in question format. I should probably be more precise in the future because my question was meant in a rhetorical way (to illicit a response rather than to actually pose a question).  If you reread my initial posts, I thought it was fairly obvious that I had already made up my mind that I had concerns about this car. I wasn't actually seeking input to help me come to a conclusion. Again, it was meant to start a dialogue about the car in the event it caught the eye of other readers here.

You are correct again that seeing the car in person is the best way to flesh out any problems. But as stated in my last post, many buyers on eBay do buy without doing this and money gets wired into bank accounts of strangers. Sometimes people get scammed and lose their money forever. Happens every day on eBay so I would argue that all those red flags I mentioned actually mean something when you are taking a big gamble. I know you think this is all preposterous but I've seen it many times. I personally have sold three cars on eBay and all three buyers wired a lot of money into my bank without ever meeting me, seeing the car in person, having it inspected, or even talking to me on the phone. Fortunately for them, I'm a very honest seller.

As far as the pics from Craigslist, you really need to look at them again. That car needs a roof skin, a trunk floor, the cockpit floor pan needs to be redone correctly, the left inner fender panel has major pitting and probably also needs replacing. The left quarter behind the door is rusting out from the inside. That car can be saved for sure but you are kidding yourself if you think it's a scuff and squirt.

Alan, I don't mean this as an attack but I am really surprised by your responses on this car. You do top notch restorations and you are always the first to spot potential problems. I have read several of your remarks in other posts warning people that if you can't see under the paint, you never know what nightmares are hiding underneath. Even if this is not a scam, Here is a car in really bad shape that we now know was restored in an unknown way by a seller we might not even get to meet, and it was all done very quickly. And if that isn't bad enough, we also know he described it as rust free when it most certainly was not. That's dishonest. Even those who see the car in person might not be savvy enough to spot bad work. You could but many others could not. You might not be endorsing this car but you're also strangely accepting of it. All the things I call red flags are not even worth considering by potential buyers apparently. Again, not meant as an attack but I am blown away that an expert such as yourself isn't raising the alarm as well.

So I can see this post kinda blew up in my face. It was meant to provoke thoughtful discussion and hopefully warn away a potential buyer. I guess we all have our viewpoints and maybe it's time to let this die off.

[kdcarman]

Actually you asked if it was legit.....to me what I see is a car selling for $40K that is likely worth $40K .....reading more into the guy's story or the history of the car is just a waste of time....


You go and inspect the car, or send someone to inspect the car, or buy it based on pictures....if you decide it's worth the asking price...you buy it pretty simple.....whether or not the car was a rust bucket three months ago, whether or not someone has MS, whether or not the seller is new to eBay,  shouldn't matter if you like what you see. You're buying the car, not the story....

Well I guess technically you are right if we are gonna start splitting hairs here. It does appear in question format. I should probably be more precise in the future because my question was meant in a rhetorical way (to illicit a response rather than to actually pose a question).  If you reread my initial posts, I thought it was fairly obvious that I had already made up my mind that I had concerns about this car. I wasn't actually seeking input to help me come to a conclusion. Again, it was meant to start a dialogue about the car in the event it caught the eye of other readers here.

You are correct again that seeing the car in person is the best way to flesh out any problems. But as stated in my last post, many buyers on eBay do buy without doing this and money gets wired into bank accounts of strangers. Sometimes people get scammed and lose their money forever. Happens every day on eBay so I would argue that all those red flags I mentioned actually mean something when you are taking a big gamble. I know you think this is all preposterous but I've seen it many times. I personally have sold three cars on eBay and all three buyers wired a lot of money into my bank without ever meeting me, seeing the car in person, having it inspected, or even talking to me on the phone. Fortunately for them, I'm a very honest seller.

As far as the pics from Craigslist, you really need to look at them again. That car needs a roof skin, a trunk floor, the cockpit floor pan needs to be redone correctly, the left inner fender panel has major pitting and probably also needs replacing. The left quarter behind the door is rusting out from the inside. That car can be saved for sure but you are kidding yourself if you think it's a scuff and squirt.

Alan, I don't mean this as an attack but I am really surprised by your responses on this car. You do top notch restorations and you are always the first to spot potential problems. I have read several of your remarks in other posts warning people that if you can't see under the paint, you never know what nightmares are hiding underneath. Even if this is not a scam, Here is a car in really bad shape that we now know was restored in an unknown way by a seller we might not even get to meet, and it was all done very quickly. And if that isn't bad enough, we also know he described it as rust free when it most certainly was not. That's dishonest. Even those who see the car in person might not be savvy enough to spot bad work. You could but many others could not. You might not be endorsing this car but you're also strangely accepting of it. All the things I call red flags are not even worth considering by potential buyers apparently. Again, not meant as an attack but I am blown away that an expert such as yourself isn't raising the alarm as well.

So I can see this post kinda blew up in my face. It was meant to provoke thoughtful discussion and hopefully warn away a potential buyer. I guess we all have our viewpoints and maybe it's time to let this die off.

Assumptions:
The car required extensive metal work to repair the rust.
The car is for sale for $40k (not high end restoration money).
Based on these two assumptions, one can reasonably assume they did not spend hundreds of hours on metal repair.

Therefore, one can conclude they are buying a quicky retoration (driver quality).  Probably filler under the paint.  If someone is happy with a decent looking driver for 40k the car meets expectations.

If someone is expecting an Alan level restoration for $40k, they should keep looking.

There are no free lunches.   

[anlauto]

That's my point...In this day and age $40k is nothing for a decent running driving car....

[70 Challenger Lover]

That's my point...In this day and age $40k is nothing for a decent running driving car....

Fair enough.

I'm getting closer to getting my 70 RT back together and on the road. Unlike the car we're talking about, mine will have it's original drive train including the original four speed. It will have had FAR less rust than this car had and all of it will have been probably cut out and replaced with photos to back it up. While the exterior won't be freshly painted, it will have an all new interior, rebuilt motor, suspension, brakes, etc. in short, it will be really nice driver quality with the exception of exterior paint. I'll toss it on eBay (with a super high reserve since I'm still not sure I want to sell it) and start a post in here to get some fun discussion going on it. I'd be willing to wager that most folks here will quickly pick it to pieces and speculate that it's value isn't much over 15k because it no longer wears all it's original sheet metal, the work wasn't done professionally, no telling what hidden problems might exist, etc. etc.

It will be worth the eBay fee just for fun.

[blown motor]

Please don't put it on eBay unless you are serious about selling it, and then only with a reasonable reserve. I've been down that road before. It just wastes everybody's time.