Challenger value when missing VIN or fender tag

[1970FC7]

Last week I went and looked at a car for sale, after we had gone over details of the car I was surprised to see there was 1970 Challenger sitting outside in the weeds against an old garage. It's been sitting outside, hidden from view from the main road. Turns out it's an R/T SE factory 383 4 speed. The motor that was in there was a later model 440 but was not complete. It's been painted a couple of times over and the original paint appears to be Winchester Gray. I asked if it was for sale and he said he would consider selling it but here's the catch: He told me that when he had in storage a few years ago, vandals had smashed the windshield and stole the VIN tag and fender tag. He does the have the title in his name and it does match the numbers on the cowl and radiator support. I will be following up with him to see proof of the title, numbers and go over the details again. I'll post pictures soon.

I follow Mopar prices constantly and have good idea what most models would cost or how much I would consider spending on one, but this one kind of stumps me. I have a feeling this is going to lead into a big debate and have multiple pages of opinions but what do you all believe a car like this would be worth? Let me state what I have seen and could not see and other details for discussion. I may have missed some information in this initial post so please be patient and I will answer what I know.

1. Overall body looks straight with no rust thru on fenders, rockers, roof. I could not see floor pans due to carpet or trunk because it was locked.
2. Interior seats and dash are complete, no center console (4 speed) but worn
3. VIN tag and fender tag missing, matching number 383 engine missing, 4 speed unknown.
4. In California you can get a replacement VIN tag but of course it will replace the original number that was on the original title. With no fender tag and build sheet there is nothing verify the options and if anything had been changed over the years.

I understand the value would not be close to one that has the VIN, fender tag and other documentation. Some would consider it a parts car or some wouldn't mind paying less for a car that they can turn into whatever they want, as long as it has a straight rust free body, frame rails, etc. Anyway, let me know your thoughts.

[EV2RTSE]

A lot of things to consider to come up with a price but if a build sheet could be found in the car that would make the missing fender tag much less of a big deal.

A replacement original-appearing Dash VIN tag can be legally obtained, I would stay away from a state issued tag if at all possible.

I would want to be damn sure the VIN# isn't in use on another car by now.

A 383-4 speed R/T SE is one of like 400.

edit: missed that there is no build sheet. Bummer.

[anlauto]

AG Backeast will make the correct looking dash VIN tag with proper documentation 

[headejm]

Interesting dilemma!

FYI - Winchester Gray was not available on Challengers in 1970 so I would look a little deeper into the original color. Look under the A pillar trim (several other places too) for example.

First thing I would do is look in all the usual places for a build sheet. Top of glove box, front seat backs, under the carpet, rear seat springs, etc.

Seems sketchy to me that someone would "steal" the VIN tag and fender tag since the car is not super valuable. I know it happens but...

Cowl and radiator support VINs are just partial so you can't really tell what the car was exactly.

Get it up on a lift if you can and thoroughly inspect it. You said the car was outside in the weeds. Could be lots of rust and critter nests.

I have a RT/SE and unless the car is fairly complete, the SE stuff is VERY difficult to find. Post some pictures if you can. Lots of very experienced Mopar people on this site and they can definitely add their opinions.

[Mr Cuda]

As long as you have a title, you can have the guy in Sweden  on ebay make a tag. His are perfect.
Doesn't matter if someone else has your tags on car, because if you have the title, the state will go with possession of the vehicle and title,  over the ebodies one.
Now it gets sticky if there is no title, and you have to apply  for one.

[Filthy Filbert]

No VIN tag.  No Fender tag.  No build sheet...

Hell, the car is whatever you want it to be!   the body numbers are nothing more than the sequence number, or model year, factory, and sequence number.

Is the door sticker at least there, and matches the body stampings?    A title with the complete VIN is at least better than nothing, but it would sure be nice to at least have something from the factory that reveals the full VIN, and not a document produced by a government employee who may or may not have been fully honest in what they were doing at the time.   For all you know, someone slipped a poorly paid DMV employee a $50 and said "I need a title with this VIN"

[EV2RTSE]

Might be a 999 special order color and then the missing tag and sheet really start to suck. But still an interesting car either way. Apparently there are quite a few of these known to be in/from California-

https://forum.e-bodies.org/cuda-and-challenger-general-discussion-roseville-moparts/2/999-paint-code-e-bodies/16057/

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=108303.0;all

https://www.hamtramck-historical.com/colorsExt/colorsExt-999.shtml

[Mr Lee]

I'd imagine that lots of restored cars don't have the fender tag or build sheet. Hard to put a value on it especially without pics but first thing that comes to my mind is, what did those guys do with the VIN and fender tags??  I doubt they stole them just for fun.  If they somehow created a title and made a car out of those numbers then you may have a battle on your hands.  I would probably start there first.  Make sure the "car" doesn't already have existence somewhere else.


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[Mr Cuda]

I have the remains of a car that had the numbers switched.  A very rare sassy grass one.
How do you out people without getting killed?
Heck, I still have the door with the vin sticker.

[Filthy Filbert]

I have the remains of a car that had the numbers switched.  A very rare sassy grass one.
How do you out people without getting killed?
Heck, I still have the door with the vin sticker.

Very carefully!

Because: "We didn't swap numbers to a clean car.   We replaced the door because it was cheaper and easier than fixing the original.  Just because you have the door we removed doesn't prove anything"

[Mr Cuda]

Well, since the door requires no repairs,  and the passenger one went on my car, that kills that theory.
And I have the whole chassis.
Easy enough, find the car by vin and look for obvious signs of rebody.
I bought the coolest parts off it in 1982 before the parted out remains got put together and driven for 10 more years.
Then value shot up and someone looked at the fender tag.

[Filthy Filbert]

It's not what you know.  It's what you can prove in a court of law.  Someone could have swapped the door for any reason. Maybe they wanted color mismatched panels and swapped all kinds of bolt on parts. 

I'm not defending anyone's action or saying that you're wrong.  I'm articulating what the defense would say when accused. 

[70vert]

starting to drift a little off topic.

My opinion: There is nothing you can do to make it OE numbers matching, so it will be a "resto-mod". Which does still have value, both $dollars$ and fun. Especially being a standard! Put a 440, 426 or newgen hemi and make it good then it could still bring enough to make a little profit (assuming you are asking because you will flip it). It just won't be setting in price records or be something to retire on 

[1970FC7]

Here are pictures of the Challenger in question.

[headejm]

Thanks for the photos! Looks to be some real value there. Depending on what you want when it's finished and how much of the work you can do, I'd say your looking at $40 - $50k to get it in great shape. Unfortunately, the finished car would only be worth around $40k. Been nice if they would have closed up the hole in the windshield. Still have to look underneath the car.

Assuming no extra parts included, I'd say $10k on the low end and maybe $15k on the high end. Under $10k would be a good deal.