Numbers Matching vs Non-Numbers vs Gen III Swap - Now and in Future

[Katfish]

How many people want an all original 57 Chevy?
How many people want an all original Model T..........

[RUNCHARGER]

I like the cars that appear to be original the most. For me the ultimate is an original Hemi Cuda or Hemi Challenger. I really do not find the new stuff attractive either, those new engines are pretty ugly.  Also I really appreciate the original suspension engineering in these cars.
For me a modified car involves updated Torsion bar suspension and a fuel injected 426 based Hemi. That way you get the looks and modern performance.
A problem with modified cars is that they go out of style about every 5 years as well, Modified styles come and go,

[Mickm]

This is a very great topic. The old car hobby is all about individuality. I like the 71 Cuda's but the car I wanted when I graduated high school was the new 1972 model. Therefore, I am drawn to that year more.

As for original vs modified. I have always been drawn to old cars simply because they have personality! I have no idea what any SUV made today looks like, one compared to another,  they all look the same.......bland with no personality.

Therefore, I like to retain a largely original style look on the outside. But being an engineer, makes me want to modify the suspension, electronics, gauges etc for a more pleasing ride as well as better reliability.

While I like the original hemi's, the 5-7 mpg isn't good on my pocket book. The new hemi's look like a duck out of water to me so I opt to update the original 340 with efi and the 727 with an Overdrive. This way everything like it is where it belongs.

But with all of this being said, the underlying fact that is above all others...... is price. I cannot spend $100K or more on a car that I only drive when it's sunny outside and that can't drive long distances due to the rarity of parts is I have a problem. I don't want to worry if my toy will retain it's value so I don't take a bath someday. Instead I spend what I can afford and do the work myself so I get the enjoyment and satisfaction of driving a cool car I built and don't give a hoot about what happens to its value down the road. I call it the price of admission!

This is just my 2 cents on the topic.


Cheers!
Mickm

[Chryco Psycho]

I love cars you can have fun with , I respect any restored original car but I love to have a 318 car to play with thus my Chall & Charger , the Chall was to valuable to really tweak but the Charger ,another story !
Best bang for the buck to me is still a stroked Big block with a ton of power on a budget but I had planned to add multi port EFI & twin turbos , old school but with added technology , unfortunatly the Charger is gone & I never found any $$ to build it the way I wanted it so it is all a pipe dream .
I love the idea of a Hell crate with a warranty but there is no reason you cannot add the technology to any older engine & get better power with the same drivability as I have proven this is easily doable .
I agree that quality workmanship means a lot over just hacking something together , the RR I helped build would run mid 11s in street trim [ same tire pressure , air cleaner on , no special fuel etc ] had Victor heads & intake with a .660 lift solid roller cam but it would idle @ 900 rpm easily as the EFI fired every cylinder every time , you could drive it in traffic cruise on the highway effortlessly , it didn't have the lumpy cam sound at all & even have a hood scoop , stealth except for the decibles !!

[303 Mopar]

The comment that was made in the other thread was that a 1971 original 340 Cuda modded with a Hellcat motor was worth more money then a correctly restored numbers matching 1971 340 Cuda....IN MY OPINION, I don't agree with that statement.

What I do believe strongly, is that a person modifying a car in this style, needs to believe that statement... 

A '71 Cuda modified with a Hellcat engine has a higher value currently than a numbers matching 340 '71 Cuda, and I do believe this statement. 

With the announcement of the Hellcrate, there are many people modifying all kinds of Mopars now and I think you will see these cars hitting the market over the next couple of years including the big auctions.  IMO these will sell for a higher value than a numbers matching 340 '71 Cuda simply because of demand, but we will soon find out.

It is a great time for muscle cars, old and new. The new Gen III Hemi's have expanded the market to the younger generation and to people that do not have the knowledge or skill to properly tune and maintain OE cars.  In addition, there is a depleting number of shops that know how to fix OE cars. There is a large audience that loves the look of a classic muscle car with the performance and reliability of a new car.

[anlauto]

I will certainly agree to disagree 

[Shane Kelley]

The comment that was made in the other thread was that a 1971 original 340 Cuda modded with a Hellcat motor was worth more money then a correctly restored numbers matching 1971 340 Cuda....IN MY OPINION, I don't agree with that statement.

What I do believe strongly, is that a person modifying a car in this style, needs to believe that statement... 

A '71 Cuda modified with a Hellcat engine has a higher value currently than a numbers matching 340 '71 Cuda, and I do believe this statement. 

With the announcement of the Hellcrate, there are many people modifying all kinds of Mopars now and I think you will see these cars hitting the market over the next couple of years including the big auctions.  IMO these will sell for a higher value than a numbers matching 340 '71 Cuda simply because of demand, but we will soon find out.

It is a great time for muscle cars, old and new. The new Gen III Hemi's have expanded the market to the younger generation and to people that do not have the knowledge or skill to properly tune and maintain OE cars.  In addition, there is a depleting number of shops that know how to fix OE cars. There is a large audience that loves the look of a classic muscle car with the performance and reliability of a new car.

Yea we haven't really got to see a sampling of the values of the restomod Mopars yet. Unlike the older GM's that we see all the time at auctions now. If the GM's are any indicator and I believe they are. Dan is correct. A few years ago you wouldn't think a split window Corvette with modern drive train would bring stronger money than a original. But we are witnessing it. Time will tell.  With that said I have seen the value on the move up with the 71 340 Cuda's. Especially with a 4 speed. Hagerty says add 10% for 4 speed. I really think it's more like 25% with all the makes and models I see selling at the auctions.  People clearly want manual transmissions over the auto's. 

So my question from the other thread. If you restomod 2 71's and they are identical in every aspect. One is a original (BS) Cuda and the other is a original 6 cyl or 318 (BH) Barracuda. Will the Cuda bring more money or will it even matter to the buyer? 

[anlauto]

People buying "resto-mods" shouldn't care about the VIN number.

About ten years ago...1971 Hemicuda convertibles were trading hands in the millions of dollars....If I recall correctly a blue one set a record at 3.5 million...shortly after that sale....a couple of similar clones started selling in the $400K to $500K range....so what everybody do....they started building 1971 Hemicuda convertible clones to cash in on the market....some were smart and started with "lesser " cars like 70/71 318 & /6 convertibles, even converted hardtops....but some fools went as far as even yanking the 340's and 383's out of their original BS27 cars to dump a Hemi in them.....

Well guess what......fast forward ten years....the "hemicuda convertible clones" sell for $80K-$90K while you can not find any 1971 340 or 383 convertible for under $100K....


Same thing is going to happen with this flash in the pan resto-mod craze.....people will destroy original cars hoping to cash in, and some will, but some will fail.

The current Chevy and Ford resto mods bringing "big bucks" are not simple engine swap cars, they are very high end customs built by big shops mostly. Complete drive train, suspension and interior upgrades, not just a new motor bolted in.


For me, if I wanted a car to handle like a new car, be as powerful as a new car and be as reliable as a new car.....guess what......I'm going to buy a NEW CAR !  and continue running PolyGlas tires on my classic.

[303 Mopar]

So my question from the other thread. If you restomod 2 71's and they are identical in every aspect. One is a original (BS) Cuda and the other is a original 6 cyl or 318 (BH) Barracuda. Will the Cuda bring more money or will it even matter to the buyer? 

I think the BS car may bring a little more money, but the further you stray from OE numbers matching the smaller the difference becomes. The obvious winner of your scenario is the guy with the BH as he gains the most profit. 

[HP_Cuda]

I think what folks are missing here is what the market will bear when it comes to prices.

Will younger generations value the same car you love, do they care if it's a BS and not a BH? Do they care more about the resto-mod options over having that rear defrost option with a four speed and longitudinal stripes?

From what I have seen from my own younger relatives is that they grew up in a throw away world. Heck if your car breaks you throw it away and get another. This is why you don't see any more auto shop at school or heck even young kids now getting their license at age 20!!!

It's just a different world now....

[Chryco Psycho]

 
Most couldn't care less about any car unless they were taught to appreciate them & the majority want tuners / throw away cars

[750-h2]

My opinion is if the car is a R,V,U,J,N,or H code they will be worth more original . All others value may increase with a modern engine. 

[Tunis]

To add more things to consider, add fuel injection and computer controlled timing to an older engine and the reliability and driveability will be as good as the newer engines, but with the sound and style of the old. In my opinion the best of both worlds.

A GenII Hemi swapped into a car will increase the value of the car, unless it is a BS27 or a V-code to begin with, simply because of the much higher cost of the engine and the parts required to put the engine in the car. If both cars are restored to the same level. At least that is what I have observed in the past.

Resto-modded cars are much more personalized and, I think, thus have a smaller buyer base.

My 

[MoparDave]

the pedigree cars will stay with in there own class and values. And exchange hands with in that realm of collectors . Which 90% of the rest of us are Not in that class. To compare this or that car to car. Will really depend on the quality of the restoration or conversion and what will that potential buyer or auction bring ?? We have seen stupid numbers at the past BJ auction which I just shake my head at. As Shane pointed out. The moded out vettes  brought stupid money. Intentional in an auction setting probably. Which again most of us will not be in that situation. The basic cars for the basic owners will do what they can afford. Yes 15k for a 707hp injected engine. you cant build that reliability for the money. But its going to cost another 10-15k to support that engine. So that goes back to a basic small block or big block build for the reasonable owner. AS others pointed out we have a generational gap that is clueless and don't care about automotive history. So where does that lead us?? 

[RUNCHARGER]

I totally agree with Alan on this one. I think if you want to chop up a car please do it to a base model and hopefully one that is incomplete and rusty. If I was to find a nice 318 70-71 E-body these days I would return it to original. Aaaaand, I bought my 08 Viper for a reason, it does "stuff" great and I love it, I want an E-body for a different reason than the reason I love my Viper.