440 best cam shaft

[RJChallenger]

I'm getting ready to, hopefully drive this car after sitting for 35 years. I,m a little worried I've over camed my motor. What do you guys think about my engine building skills. Here is what I have built. 70 block 440. 030 over . mopar performance 9.0 compression flat top  hyper tech pistons. 1964 383 heads closed chamber heads , had a machine shop enlarge the 1.60" exhaust valve to a 1.74"and port the bowl area behind the valve. Stainless steel valves were added. Mopar performance .509 camshaft and crane roller rocker arms. A Holley 780 cfm feeds the system and H.P manifolds exhaust it. A mopar performance distributor  and electronic ignition brings it all to life. I know that vacuum will be an issue for the power brakes. Is the .509 to much for a street car weekend driver?  Is it better suited for the track?  I think I nailed it, but until you drive or try to drive it you never know just how well you did.  Could I have made better choices? What do you guys think? Thanks

[Chryco Psycho]

I can see a few issues ,
1 - why use closed chamber heads & not get quench using only 9:1 oistons , I would have used 10:1 Fforged pistons  not Hyper cast pistons , made sure there was proper quench .
2 - I would have opened the valves to 1.81 / 2.14
3 - the 509 is a decent cam 40 years ago , Mopar has not updated the grinds since the late 70s , Lunati would have got around the same lift but with a better duration profile . I would probably have gone to a solid flat tappet cam if you were buying rockers anyway . the 509 will work OK but you could have chosen a better cam .

Not trying to beat you up but you did ask !

[RUNCHARGER]

Uh: I think it is a 4 speed? If so that's good. That cam would like headers but I would try it as-is. Today I wouldn't recommend that camshaft but it is in there so you might as well try it. I also would have built a quench engine but maybe when you built it that wasn't even really known about.
A camshaft I really have had good luck with is the Mopar 284-528 mechanical. I don't even know if they still make it. If they do and your camshaft doesn't work out I would think about using it, it will give better driveability and it makes good power, you already have adjustable rockers and likely valve springs that would work with it.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have also used the Solid Mopar 528 cam , it works very well & yes it is still available but I would still look at a different // newer cam .

[RJChallenger]

Thanks every body. I asked for, and respect every ones opinion. I'm the last guy that should own a car like this. It took me twenty years to built my motor, buying one piston at a time. Buying trading parts. I bought the cam in 1996. The heads given to me for my time helping a friend. I had headers, power steering box wouldn't fit unless you beat the headers. put manual steering box. headers rusted out sitting. Put H.P manifolds on and put the power steering back in . I've always liked the sleeper look, thats why the motor is not orange . no headers etc.  All the good stuff inside. Once again thanks to all and enjoy your mopar.

[RUNCHARGER]

By no means do we mean to tell you it won't run. It will probably run pretty well. I think you'll be pretty happy with it. Lots of changes over the last 15 or so years though. Everyone is running a stroker, most are running aluminum heads, camshafts have changed. That doesn't mean yours won't work well. A lot of it is in the tuneup as well. I've seen lots of fancy engines get taken down by lesser engines that were tuned and driven correctly.

[Chryco Psycho]

Why shouldn't you own it 
You have a great looking chall , you have worked hard & relentlessly to build your dream , these cars are never done , it will continue to evolve while you enjoy it !!
You are exactly the person to own this car , focused & dedicated to getting it built even is $$ were slim like a lot of us !
Get out there & run the wheels off it 

[RJChallenger]

If I can get the wife to think of it as an RSP plan it would help. What I really mean is, this is a 70 Challenger. It deserves to be finished properly with quality parts and painted in a booth to be DRIVEN, not stuck on jack stands wondering if this is the decade it gets driven.its taken me almost 40 years to get this far, it may take another ten. Now that i feel better, I should go clean some windows and get ready to put them in.

[chargerdon]

In my 360 Chally i have the Mopar Performance 508 camshaft...im pretty sure the 508 is the small block version of the 509.     
I have 9.5 compression with Edlebrock Performer Air Gap intake manifold, Eddy 1405 carb and Patriot long headers.   It has a 904 Torqueflite with 2500 rpm stall converter, and a 3.23 sure grip (still running 14" wheels).

I hate it...   It is streetable...but...just barely.   It does make great power even at low rpms (still needs at least 1500 to start performing and the 2500 stall converter helps a lot here).... but the problems are:

1) Doesn't idle worth shit !!   Shakes the entire car...   In order to get it to idle somewhat decent at 1,000 rpm or lower, you have to advance the timing as far as you can.   I.e advance the static timing till it begins to ping on 93 premium and then back off 1-2 degrees.   At that point, when engine is warmed up, and you try to start it, there will be some "backlash" making it difficult to turn over.   In my case the static timing ends up being about 20-22 BTDC.  Any higher and i cant start it when warmed up. 

On the road, it likes the timing, even more would make it run even better, but, then the starting problem sets in.   Some guys have advocated putting in a coil kill switch, to allow you to crank the engine and then flip on the switch to start.   Now, with over 20 degrees static, I had to modify the distributors mechanical advance to prevent the engine from getting too much advance (38 or over) to prevent destruction. 

PS, i talked with Edlebrock tech support on the idle issue, and their tech support was fully aware of the problems with a high duration cam...   They agreed with the static timing, and relatively high rpm needed for idle.    They also kinda recommended that i experiment with giving it more air by drilling holes in the throttle blades...haven't tried that yet.   

2) Stumble coming off idle...   Until it is 100% fully warmed up and off of the choke, it will stumble badly when coming off idle..  now, if i brake hold it and give it enough gas to bring RPMS up to at least 1200 then the stumble is gone...   Or if i give it heavy gas it will avoid the stumble, but, will sometimes chirp the tires when i wasn't trying to.  Again talked with eddy tech and they again recognize the problem...with 1,000 rpm the throttle blades are open enough that the idle mixture screws are useless (already in transition stage).   They again, recommended putting a couple of small holes in the throttle blades to experiment. 

3) Not enough vaccuum for the power brakes...   On the road the power brakes are fine, but, in city traffic, after first stop the booster tank runs empty and no power...have to shift into neutral and rev it to over 2000 rpm for a second to refill.  Again, most of the time i slip it into neutral anyways because of the strain with the lumpy idle..   

I didn't pick this cam, it came with the professionally built engine, but, someday i'm going to get fed up and put in a different cam...  Dont know which but one with at least 10 degrees less duration...  to make it more streetable. 

[Chryco Psycho]

 I would look into the Lunati Voodoo series cams , better lift & a lot less duration , much more streetable with better vacuum etc but similar power .
Why wait to change it out ?
@chargerdon .... Don you have a killler bad combo [Not good] the carb is the worst for tuning with long duration cams / low manifold vacuum  , your engine would work Far better with a Proform carb properly tuned swap the cam too  & you would have a different car altogether .

[chargerdon]

chryco...   and suggestion on which voodoo cam?   Im no expert, but, i don't mind a lumpy idle, heck its cool, but want to avoid all of the problems associated with it...shaking the car, stumble off idle, not enough vaccuum for the power brakes, having to put in so much static advance timing that its hard to crank when warm.   I'm not wealthy so, if i changed out the cam and lifters, the carb would have to wait a while.   

[Strawdawg]

did you tell us whether it has a four speed or a torqueflite?

Sounds like you are exactly the type of guy that should own one of these cars.

[RUNCHARGER]

He has a 4 speed which really helps with that camshaft, that cam used to be the go to hydraulic in a 440 so it could be a lot worse.

[Strawdawg]

I would go with a Lunati  Voodoo as well in that case.

Altho, the 702 is probably the theoretical best choice, the 703 should work with the 4 spd if you want a little more "sound"

[chargerdon]

I have a 904 torqueflite with 2500 rpm stall converter.