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Long Block Help

Started by 70_440-6Cuda, March 10, 2023, 12:18:06 PM

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70_440-6Cuda

Made the decision to get my long block completed and could use some help and advice.  I have downloaded the 1970 FSM and have the 1970-71 Barracuda Electrical and Body Assembly manual.  I just purchased the MMC Guide to Fasteners, Body of Knowledge, E Body Field Guide and Standard Hardware Guide (ouch for all those).  I also purchased the AMK engine master hardware kit so I have all of the correct hardware on hand.  My problem is I feel like I am constantly asking the folks here to determine what exactly I need to look for and am wondering if the manuals above will give me the details I need to track down the factory correct parts listed below?  It is frustrating as there is so much to know and it is so easy to spend a LOT of money on the wrong parts.  Distributor is a perfect example

I am working on a 440-6 Long block and would like to get it completely assembled as a crate engine - I am pretty close already and it would be a nice motivator for me to have it sitting on the stand ready to go.  I have the carbs rebuilt, the long block, intake manifold, valve covers and correct balancer.  What I can think of at the moment that I still need is below and could use some feedback as to what to look out for when looking for what I need - if anyone has anything I need please let me know, thanks.  I am ok with aftermarket for things like brackets and such if there is no discernable difference from original.

Timing cover: would like factory original, anything specific to year etc?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304650105560?hash=item46ee8fb2d8:g:jjwAAOSwP4hjLIGF&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0BrKvq96fPsCw0%2FFM3p6mDo3mUqpDKzDgYymRtHhNbey98ShvcJ5HQtl4B0WcXQEjqL0nFDQx5AxdVjLHJSWOw%2FsXU2z0gFDIpbLSAY7%2Fqm7EPmhvnHQZxVYWXQQ3zorIwG%2BplvM0OXo5%2FXnPIhTm%2FKUBKfcc6ntz4IU5fZizHcnKDHFsx%2BrjDoqloUJjV7uTCAT%2FgXYcRTCkj%2FpSBFQ3UGAKqBfEcjxyS%2FSI1VkUFGTiWXXWzJqKEYx0qAbO86sf2gXv2B9KOZpmcFwa2gEaEE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR66EutLZYQ
Water pump: seems like used is fairly readily available, is 2780987 correct PN for June '70 440-6
Distributor: have a line on a complete rebuilt but asking price is $1100. It is an original Mopar replacement from the 80s.  also found this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254901981366?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=254901981366&targetid=1645685074968&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=1013883&poi=&campaignid=16730423415&mkgroupid=135815925780&rlsatarget=pla-1645685074968&abcId=9300841&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQiAx6ugBhCcARIsAGNmMbiQUnDot0sw0YX-Y36P1y5qStiKPpH-MshnoWVpr3VOdsefWaenpgYaAoxXEALw_wcB
Coil
Alternator
Fuel Lines and all throttle linkages / brackets
Pulleys for non PS car
All brackets (alternator, coil, distributor etc.)

If there is a better way to approach what I am looking to do please let me know
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy horsepower and that's kind of the same thing.....

tparker

I'm no expert and I find my self in similar situtations. I think without that specific knowledge you are bound to occasionally buy incorrect parts. The good news is you should be able to sell them off. I try to do as much research as I can. I'll watch videos, read articles and books, and when I am stuck or need recommendations I ask here. And most of the time I get good responses.

One of the best investments, which I bought way late into my build, was the fasteners guide. To me, this is the best book out there. Please tell me there is a better one out there, and I'll get that one too. It was expensive so I hesitated. But I broke down and bought it and found it immensely helpful because it went further than just bolts. It throughs in various accessories, relays, hoses, and all sorts of cool extras along with photos for that thing just behind the bold that I need a picture of. LOL. The service manual is OK, but I don't use most of it. Mostly just the electrical section.

Your mostly talking about the motor, and if that is the case, there are tons of videos out there that can help. Not sure what you are looking to do with the motor, but If I didn't have all the stock parts (I had most but not all) I would focus on getting it running with what I could. The could mean buying used cheaper availble stuff or various aftermarket stuff. I found a lot of cool stuff at swap meets, but that is an expensive adventure since the closest Mopar one is about 6-7 hours away. I use it as a vacation to justify the cost and then try to buy cheap stuff while there. But as I found out the hard way, you kinda really have to know what you're looking for. And there is almost no nuts or bolts available other than from vendors selling new stuff at a bit of a premium. I hate ordering bolts online as well since a single bolt can be $5-$10 plus shipping.

I don't know much about the availibility of big block distributors, but $1000 seems very high to me. But maybe it is a rare one. My worry with a used water pump is it can go out at any time. Mine is a minimum 30 years old. I am sure I swapped it from a 318 and it could actually be 50 years old. If I needed a new one, I would probably see how much a new one is and go that route. Alternators are a bit tricky, I have found. If you keep the car stock to the early 70's specs you might be ok. But if you have high draw currents (modern electronics) you might need to research alternator options. I think there are basically two options short of some custom alternators that allow hight current. THe coil probably isn't a big deal and should match what your ignition system is. Something bigger if your running more voltage. I got a pertronix one that is the same shape and size as the stock one. I'm using an old malory distributor and may change it up later. I bought fuel lines and it worked out well. They came shipped in a box folded in half. But I fabercated the front brake lines and boy are they ugly. But they work. Maybe later I'll change them. I had to save money where I could so I can get it on the road. The pulleys were a bit of a pain. There are lots of pulley options. One, two, three grooves. Then spacers for the alt and it's bracket. And trying to buy one was a pain and not cheap. It took a while but I did find one. I suspect that if you know your stuff you can buy a pulley off a less desirable model and save loads of cash, but you have to know what to look for. I asked one guy on ebay if he could give me the bolt dimension and he acted like I was asking for a miracle or something. I have some brackets but a lot were either lost or fabricated so I had to hunt some down. In particular the throttle stuff. Not sure if I still have it right, but I have a ton of stuff I picked up from swap meets. I also need the heater hose brackets and maybe the sprak plug wire holder.

It's not easy, but be patient and ask the questions you need. Try to do a bit of research first. Watch some engine rebuilding videos as they give lots of advice. And ask here. People intersted will help answer.

EV2RTSE

#2
A lot of ways you could go here, posting parts-wanted ads across the "big 3" sites- here, moparts.com and forebodiesonly.com would probably get you a lot of what you are looking for.

Ebay is nice for convenience and you can occasionally find a deal but it seems anymore that everything on there is wildly overpriced. Partly because the fees have gotten expensive so sellers have to pass those along to the buyer.

I would contact Frank Badalson if you haven't already- he sells a lot of the "right" stuff- likely would have a line on a distributor and alternator as well.
https://www.rogergibsonautorestoration.com/parts/home/

an article on engine detailing-
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mopar-engine-detailing-2/

The distributor is another big $ part but $1100 seems excessive. I would look around some more first IMO.
Same with the alternator but they're out there.

Coil is available in reproduction.

Fuel lines I would get from Fine Lines.

Other sources for linkages / pulleys / brackets:

Bluestar performance-
https://bluestarperformance.com/

Tony's-
https://www.tonysparts.com/

Bill Rolik- another one to place a phone call to, I'd bet he will have suggestions on the distributor and alternator ...
https://www.billrolikenterprises.com/products.php?cat=18

Mancini-
https://www.manciniracing.com/bengineparts.html

440 Source-
https://store.440source.com/Pulleys-Belts/departments/15/











70_440-6Cuda

Thanks for the reply - a couple of resources I did not have in my list.  Seems like the distributor is going to be the big ticket item so I will do some sourcing.

I had just read through the Motor Trend article and the thread here re: the water pump, but sometimes it leaves more questions than answers.
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy horsepower and that's kind of the same thing.....

EV2RTSE

#4
The timing cover & water pump housing should be the same whether 383, 440-4 or 440-6 AFAIK. My 70 383 has the 2780987 pump housing, the date looks to be 3-4 and the car was assembled late March or possibly early April of 1970. The pump itself is an aftermarket replacement.  Mine has a/c so the pump part # would be different, but you'd be looking for 2843290 I believe.


70_440-6Cuda

Man, it is no wonder why projects take so long - I am STILL trying to hunt down the right stuff for my project, and each piece of information leads to 10 more questions!

I think I have tracked down a correct water pump housing, so now I am trying to do my research on the correct water pump - from what I can find 2843290 is the right casting # but there are AC and non AC versions - looking for clarification on the correct water pump for a '70 440-6 non AC car.  Thinking I want to use a factory pump and have it rebuilt, but also read some things about aftermarket, anti-cavitating pumps being a huge improvement.  As always, looking for feedback from the group.  Trying to build as close to original as possible, found this listing on ebay so figured should be able to find a decent core to rebuild.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175578836345
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy horsepower and that's kind of the same thing.....