Need Advice: - A833 OD Built for Longer Life Behind Street/Strip Stroker

[the_cuda_guy]

Need some advice/help.  My car set up is a street strip (90% street/cruise/car show) 73 Barracuda, stroker RB, full caltrac set up, D60 with 3.73 gearing, 28-29" rear tire. The engine has to come out of the car for repairs/replacement. Since the engine has to come out, I have decided to replace the trans and convert my Barracuda over from AT to 4sp. Car is going to the body shop for touch up/repair; will have the 4sp hump installed then.  I will be going with a A833 OD for the replacement trans. 

My first question is what is the better case?  The steel case or a modified alum case with the correct steel bushings to stabilize internals such as described in this article:

https://www.hotrod.com/how-to/mopp-0110-a-833-aluminum-case-buildup/

I was told that I could buy the alum case already bushed from Passon.

Is there any benefit to having the steel cases bushed if converting to 833 OD or is the steel case tolerance so much better for the factory parts readily available? 

An alum steel-bushed case option seems likely to be the more affordable / easier option due to converting a steel case and the added startup costs associated (sourcing cores / resourcing separate internal parts). This comparison is to an alum 833 OD that is, as the production steel case 833 OD are not always for sale and it's likely quicker to source a used/refurb standard 833 steel case.

lbs for lbs with longevity and power/tq tolerance in mind which case is better and if it is the steel case, is the difference worth doing the steel to OD swap, in your opinion that is? 

Also, if there is any other advice on how to improve a factory 833 OD unit, please mention it.  I know Neil and others have run the 833 OD behind power / drag cars with positive results.  I am well aware of the 833 OD's reputation for weakness. The youtube video of the guy beating a stock alum 833 OD unit in a 541 Dart showed that the trans could handle some power.  Replacement costs would be fractional compared the other options considered. Other concerns I am tracking are the 1-2 gearing/split, 2-3 shift frequency while driving in traffic.  I have a Lakewood scatter shield designed for RB to 833 OD, so that won't be a prob.

At some point I will likely call Brewers and/or Passon to compare sourcing parts myself vs the one stop shop costs, I wanted to get as much street knowledge before I talked to professionals who live it daily.  I prefer to get all the info I can before I dive into interacting with those who are experts and money is involved.  That being said any advice will be considered and thank you for it.   

These are the other OD options I considered:

No auto OD's were considered for this adventure

833 with GV unit - not worth the effort or costs and not enough OD gear (.78) for what I am looking for

Passon 833 OD - Not enough overdrive gear (.80) to compel me to use this option

TKX - likely the best overall option - swap not affordable at this time on top of the other work being done

T-56 - not affordable at this time - doesn't seem worth the extra costs for what you are getting and the requirements it adds


Thank you for any help / advice you can lend me,

Don

[dodj]

I don't have the knowledge to help you out but I remember you and the story of the 'cuda from cc.com. Glad to have you around!

[the_cuda_guy]

I don't have the knowledge to help you out but I remember you and the story of the 'cuda from cc.com. Glad to have you around!

I miss those days; we had a super tight group there for a long time!  I will be around more now that I have time and focus for the the cuda guy project!  Thanks for saying hi!


Don

[Brads70]

Hi Don! Neil has experience with those transmissions. Chryco Psycho

What tires will you be using, and what gear ratio?

[the_cuda_guy]

Hi Don! Neil has experience with those transmissions. Chryco Psycho

What tires will you be using, and what gear ratio?

Hey Brad nice to see you, so to say!  I am hoping Neil gets a chance to chime in at some point.  I got 3.73 gears with 28-29" drag radials.  I know not having sticky tires will likely help it live longer.

Don

[RUNCHARGER]

I think the factory OD setup is junk. Not as strong as a conventional box and the ratio splits are not optimal. Not only that you're looking at some machining making a bellhousing fit. You're going to have to have a wide powerband to make those horrible long shifts work.
The Passon Hemi OD 4 speed is a much better choice, it has proper ration spacing and is a provenm stronger transmission that will not need any special machining or crutching to make work. The ratios are the same as a 727 but with the added OD gear. They will take the power no problem.
But it's your money, you are going down a money spending, heartbreaking adventure considering the factory trans.
This Passon is taking the abuse.

[the_cuda_guy]

I think the factory OD setup is junk.

Does this opinion include a bushed case that seems to correct the weakest point in factory alum 833 OD trans?  In my research I have come across a few BB and Hemi cars that have an 833 OD that has lived behind those engines for many years, with reported spirited driving.

For the Passon 833 OD, do you feel the 20% reduction in OD is enough for your application?  Would you drive that car on the Power Tour?   

I already have a bell for this specific application. 


Thanks,

Don 

[b5cuda]

Hi Don, great to see your post. I recall seeing an article on you and your cuda in Mopar Muscle. Congrats on the retirement, and as a fellow vet, thanks for your service!
Regarding your question. I've run an 833OD (iron case) in my '69 cuda 340 for 15 years and 30K miles. It's great for daily use and the occasional 'spirited' driving, but I'll admit I've never been to the strip. It excells on open roads where I can get 20 mpg even with 3.55 diff. You already have one of the harder items to find, the V-8 bell. 1st gear is a granny which you may or may not like. Last year I got my new project on the road, a '73 cuda with regular 833 (using a 3.09 1st gear set) and a 2.94 diff. The closer ratio is much nicer for driving and kind of spoiled me. Now the 833OD seems too wide ranged between gears by comparison. IMO the 833OD is a great driver trans, great bang for the buck, especially if you do road trips. But as with everything there are tradeoffs.

[the_cuda_guy]

Hi Don, great to see your post. I recall seeing an article on you and your cuda in Mopar Muscle. Congrats on the retirement, and as a fellow vet, thanks for your service!
Regarding your question. I've run an 833OD (iron case) in my '69 cuda 340 for 15 years and 30K miles. It's great for daily use and the occasional 'spirited' driving, but I'll admit I've never been to the strip. It excells on open roads where I can get 20 mpg even with 3.55 diff. You already have one of the harder items to find, the V-8 bell. 1st gear is a granny which you may or may not like. Last year I got my new project on the road, a '73 cuda with regular 833 (using a 3.09 1st gear set) and a 2.94 diff. The closer ratio is much nicer for driving and kind of spoiled me. Now the 833OD seems too wide ranged between gears by comparison. IMO the 833OD is a great driver trans, great bang for the buck, especially if you do road trips. But as with everything there are tradeoffs.

Thank you for the reply!  Also, thanks for your service too!  I bet we have a big vet community on here now.  I may start a post about that when I get some time.

Thanks for the info regarding the 833 OD situation.  I think I am fairly set on doing it and worrying about any consequences later as it sounds like they can live for a while if you aren't drag racing them.  My goal is to do long haul power tour in the next couple years, me and my dad always talking about doing it, and his health is fading with each year, so I am going to try to make it a reality sooner vs later.

If you aren't VA service connected or want to look at an increase, send me a PM I can help you get dialed in, I work with the PVA now as a veteran's advocate.


Don

[RUNCHARGER]

The 20% makes a 3.73 like a 3.1 or a 3.54 like a 2.8. We run 3.73 behind the Passon and it's fine on the freeway.
Please drive a factory OD transmission before spending the money to bush the shafts, replace bad parts, buy the clutch etc. I would either go the easy route and do a Passon or change to a TKX. If you had a factory OD laying around and it was a bolt-in I would say sure you can try it. However you will be investing money in trying to make it right and I know it would disappoint me if I went that way.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

[the_cuda_guy]

The 20% makes a 3.73 like a 3.1 or a 3.54 like a 2.8. We run 3.73 behind the Passon and it's fine on the freeway.
Please drive a factory OD transmission before spending the money to bush the shafts, replace bad parts, buy the clutch etc. I would either go the easy route and do a Passon or change to a TKX. If you had a factory OD laying around and it was a bolt-in I would say sure you can try it. However you will be investing money in trying to make it right and I know it would disappoint me if I went that way.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thank you for the response.  You have a fair point about driving one before I spend more money as I have never drove one with an 833 OD.

Don

[rmchrgr]

I'm waiting on a Passon OD gearset for my Challenger 4 speed conversion. I put a deposit on it in January. They are waiting on bearing retainers to be machined. He does them in small runs so you have to get on the list. It's going into a 23-spline cast iron case from a '69 Roadrunner I've had sitting around for several years.

IMO, the only aluminum case worth pursuing is an old Direct Connection piece which are rare and expensive. Passon was producing aluminum cases and tailshafts for a while. Unfortunately he sold out of them and has no plans to make any more since it took too long to sell what he had. That seems nuts to me because that was one of the first things I asked about.

I was considering a TKX but overall it was slightly more expensive. It requires a bunch of Tremec-specific peripheral stuff that adds up.

I also went with a Malwood hydraulic throw out bearing. The Malwood kit is not cheap but it's no longer necessary to chase down all the linkage.

For the 1/4 mile, the Passon OD will handle the power. Depending on your shift RPM with a 3.73 gear you probably won't be in 4th gear. If it was a full race car you'd probably want a Jerico or G Force type anyway.

[Chryco Psycho]

Hi Don
 A wide rpm range between shifts is no big deal with a big inch stroker
 The front brg retainer is easy to fix just mill the retainer down to 4.80 , it takes minutes in a lathe
 yes you can put OD gears in a steel case just a minor problem with the countershaft install , I have done this before .
 I used a alum case trans in mos applications , I did have bushings installed in one alum case but the cost was more then buying another trans .
 I would just go ahead & install a normal 833 OD & drive it for a while se if you like it first , maybe buy a second one as well as a spare or to modify with bushings later .
 The 833 is a tough trans in any form but anything can be broken also ...

[the_cuda_guy]

Hi Don
 A wide rpm range between shifts is no big deal with a big inch stroker
 The front brg retainer is easy to fix just mill the retainer down to 4.80 , it takes minutes in a lathe
 yes you can put OD gears in a steel case just a minor problem with the countershaft install , I have done this before .
 I used a alum case trans in mos applications , I did have bushings installed in one alum case but the cost was more then buying another trans .
 I would just go ahead & install a normal 833 OD & drive it for a while se if you like it first , maybe buy a second one as well as a spare or to modify with bushings later .
 The 833 is a tough trans in any form but anything can be broken also ...

Thanks Neil!  I had recalled you drag raced one for a few seasons and was hoping you would weigh in.  Hope all is well with you my friend.

Don

[YellowThumper]

I have an aluminum OD also.
My plans are exactly as others have now said, going to put it in as is and run it to test and see if it is acceptable.
Win if it is, if not then work out the next plan in the future for internal corrections.