Restoration tips

[anlauto]

I bought over $139,673.52 dollars worth of parts in 2016 and plus got another $10K or so from Roseville which my customer paid for....

So I have a lot of parts coming in....Once and awhile I might get "two of something" but I just sell it to the next car. I keep a lot of inventory as well. I like to order in bulk.
Most often my only problem is missing parts. I might order a pile of stuff and not realize something was back ordered, until I go looking for it, but otherwise this ship sails pretty smooth...

[Jakesgeneral]

If I were a restoration shop I would put together a detailed project cost and schedule plan for my customers. I often think about that as a profession given the actual cost history I have saved up from all of the cars.

Even as a hobbyist I would order bulk fasteners. E body shoulder screws to hold on the door panels 

I did a few B Bodies and still have a bag (500) of door panel clips, but the price was the same from one wholesale supplier as buying a "set" for my car.

Having big expensive parts on hand, like interior kits etc. unless I was going to buy them in bulk at wholesale prices I would ship those back. Too high of overhead.

I think in 2004 as a hobbyist I ordered ~$36,000 just from my local Carquest Auto Parts store. Lots of projects that year.

[anlauto]

If I were a restoration shop I would put together a detailed project cost and schedule plan for my customers.

This is pretty much impossible, due to so many "unknowns"

If the car comes in as a complete rusty old car how could you possibly quote the cost of the metal replacement for instance, if the car hasn't been completely disassembled and media blasted ?

How can you quote the price of rebuilding the transmission if you had no clue the the input shaft was so damaged it had to be replaced ? Or rebuilding the motor when you find out the heads are cracked ?

Or BEST yet.....When the customer insists on supplying parts and the parts he supplies are cheap garbage that take twice as long to try and install before you throw them out and get the stuff you would have supplied in the first place...

I've restored over 30 E Bodies.....I have my "best ballpark estimate" pretty down pat....but to say that you could supply a "detailed project cost" on a complete restoration.....isn't going to happen....Sorry.

The schedule plan part is easy.....You keep the money coming...I keep working..... average is about 12 months. Last year I did two sunroof cars for one customer in 12 months, plus working on two other cars.

[anlauto]

..............and yea.............I am full of myself................

[Jakesgeneral]

anlanauto- You have the data, it sounds like you also have it in your head to boot. Very admirable. Estimates are all we are dealing with here. Manage expectations with solid estimates for the customers with the unknowns. i.e change orders.  However for the most part you know that the "typical" OE restoration cost is on a driveline for us Mopar only guys we know what it will take for the most part to build a OE 440, can through the delta in for the 6 pack carb rebuild if a 440-6.  I am just an amateur but have done a handful and have the data. Each estimated area, Disassembly, Driveline rebuilt, Paint/Body, Assembly, Test. can be further broken down to build up the costs accurately for each project. i.e Body and Paint- for a rotisserie car with full quarters, floor pan work etc. plug in the hours. The hours come from your historical data. Paint hours for a driver are going to be less for a trailer queen etc. more steps, more hours for the trailer queen. x your shop rate and you have the dollars.

I will never get caught up in a time and materials shop- keep sending the money and I'll keep working- Been there don't that even with good honest guys and the costs are just not controlled. A project plan is better than no plan at all. I expect guys spending the big $$$ at restoration shops would expect nothing less.

[nsmall]

Let's say a paint job is going to cost you $15,000.  What would be fair to pay every other month assuming the car can be done in one year?  Not trying to open up a can of worms just curious if 20% every other month sounds about right?  I've never paid anyone to paint a car but I'm about to

[Cuda Cody]

I've heard soooooo many horror stories about how people get screwed over by shops and each one seems to have one common thread.... they prepay to much for work that has not been done.  Paying to much up front for work that has not been done seems to be a very common way people get screwed.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Talk to some past customers to see what their experience is with the shop.  Ask them if they would use the shop again and what they might have done different if they could do it over.  Then put EVERYTHING in writing and check in with the shop on predetermined dates.  Once a week, twice a month, once a month, whatever it is.... get it in writing.  Then after the deposit, pay for the work at set milestones.  The milestones could be a set number of hours worked on the car or stages of the progress.   

[anlauto]

Best advice for anybody having work done is to ask for references and pick up the phone and call them...talk to people who have actually dealt with the company before. A body shop or restoration shop will tell you whatever you want to hear, but their opinion of themselves may differ tremendously from the opinion of their customers.

As far as "body shop" payments ? I agree with the horror stories, I've heard dozens as Cody says.... 
I guess it depends on the size of the shop. Most small businesses have very little working capital. If your $15K job is going to take 3 months lets say.....I can understand how most shops can't front that money for that length of time. They have bills to pay, employees to pay etc...
I feel there is ZERO reasons why they should require money up front.
In a perfect world, they should invoice you every month or even every two weeks. They calculate the amount of hours of work completed up until that point, plus supplies and bill you. Out of common courtesy, you pay immediately and work continues for another two weeks etc...etc... 

I invoice at the end of the month and often times find it very hard to make ends meet, especially when people don't pay on time or don't pay at all.
The people I work with are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
The body shop that paints my cars has about 35 employees, they don't invoice me until the job is done, just like any of collision type body shop. When I invoice my customers for their work, I add 10% and space it out over the three months say, so they don't get hit with a large bill.
Keith Sim, my metal guy,  won't take your job without $5k at least up front. He's a one man shop with bills to pay and has been screwed over enough to know better. However, even he admits that it's hard sometimes for him because he usually spends that money long before he earns it.....It's hard to go to work in the morning knowing you're not getting paid because you've already been paid and spent that money last month..

[HUSTLESTUFF]

The best way that I've heard for major resto is to do it like a lawyer and have a retainer.  I would start with no more than $2500 and bi weekly billing to replenish the retainer at say $1000.  So if they only do $1000 in two weeks, they get no more money until they go below $1000.  If there are major parts to be bought I would pay them within a week of their arrival at the shop or buy myself with shops blessing as to quality.  If there is a large subbed out item such as blasting and epoxy, I would pay when work finished.  I do all of my own work so I don't have those worries.  Mike

[anlauto]

Let's say a paint job is going to cost you $15,000.  What would be fair to pay every other month assuming the car can be done in one year?  Not trying to open up a can of worms just curious if 20% every other month sounds about right?  I've never paid anyone to paint a car but I'm about to

I just re-read this post.....Why would it take a year for a "paint job" ? Assuming the total is $15K subtract $3K for materials... That leaves $12K ...lets say they at $50/hr that's only 240 hours of labour ? Are they only working one hour a day  on your car ?

[RUNCHARGER]

I find where most people go wrong is by being cheap and trying to save money. Sorry but I only deal with proven shops and tell them I want it at a certain date. I know so many people that go to backyarders that promise a cheap job and drag it on for months after the customer says "just fit it in".
The guy that just painted my Stealth did it in one week just as I requested. He worked for me 3 years ago when the beavertail fell off the enclosed trailer and wiped out the back end of my orange car. Same thing back then, I told him he had to have it done in 1 week, he did and it was a perfect job on time and on budget.
Around here though hourly charges go well over $100 so if a shop is going down the wrong road with your project it gets ugly fast.

[nsmall]

Alan, you are funny.  I guess an hour a day is a little ridiculous.  I'm not sure of the timeline.  Im hoping my car ain't a rusted out piece of trash.  The media blaster will figure that out.

He'll have a better idea of the timeframe after the car is blasted.  I'm fine with 6 months which probably means 9 months?  I heard it's very common for auto body people to  NOT be on time?

  Should I demand it be done in 3 months?  I'm probably too laid back with most business deals I do, but it always works out.  Is three months fair? I don't want to rush the painter as I'm pretty uptight.   I have money, I'll pay the day of when he asks and I'm happy with the progress.

I stopped by his shop, asked for references.... Thanks

I've also seen a ton of his work, really like this guy.  I'LL be careful with fronting too much money..... Thanks

Really like you all. 

[Aar1064]

For my re-assembly, I'm using Rick Kreuziger's list. This has really helped me see the things that are done as well as what else needs to be done. I also use an app called GTasks on my iPhone and iPad. Comes in pretty handy with keeping everything in order and my phone is mostly always with me and when I think of something that needs to be done or bought, I can plug it in.