And They Wonder Why I Hate California

[Skid Row]

When all know the political pendulum swings back and forth,(Most likely in 2024) Based on the viciousness we are hearing every day.
It is going to get ugly.  I believe Orwell missed it by exactly 40 years....

[70 Challenger Lover]

Maybe the next thing my daughter gets from her whacko lefty teachers will be a bumper sticker for "Go Green. Soylent Green."

[71-440]

Interesting.....

http://commonsensewonder.blogspot.com/2019/02/2019-list-of-socialists-and-communists.html

[YellowThumper]

I believe when the current financial system as we know it collapses - we may have a chance to change things.

Although it will probably be very hairy times.

Exactly and unfortunately we are a reactive society instead of a proactive.
Political suicide to run on "we will hurt before we will get better". Unfortunately that is what it will take.

[70 Challenger Lover]

The financial system did collapse badly at the end of 2007. So badly the whole world reeled from it. It brought in a semi-socialist as president. The economy lagged for nearly every year he was in office because he was holding the recovery back with his policies. Once he left and released the choke hold he had on the country's economy, things flourished and have been ever since.

Once Trump is gone, we will have another socialist president at some point afterward and they will do the same economic stuff hurting the country. Everyone will turn their angst towards the greedy corporate structure demanding change and extra taxation against them not really understanding that we depend on those greedy corporate businesses to provide our jobs, and healthcare, and reasonably priced goods, and business taxes, etc. Those businesses will of course pass those expenses on to us the consumer Which hurts the economy even more. Given enough of that, people will eventually open themselves more to the idea of socialism where the benevolent government leaders care for all of us and help us manage our lives. That model has played out in other countries.

I think people see the world and all it's resources in two different ways:

socialists see the worlds resources as a fixed amount of pie and in order for one group to get more pie, you must take it from another group. There is waste, spillage and loss so everyone gets less pie in the end. Everyone is equally unhappy.

People who embrace capitalism and all its associated issues see the world and its resources as a pie that can be grown larger so that everyone's share of pie can be larger. Yes the people who have too much pie get even more pie but so what if everyone is getting more? Children whine about how unfair it is that their sibling is getting more pie than them. I see socialists in the same way. They would rather everyone had less of everything so we can all be equally unhappy.

In California, we are now allowing people in jail to vote about the issues that affect all of us including how much taxes I get to pay. Once they are off parole, they can serve as jury members as well. I wonder who those folks will be voting for in the upcoming elections.

[dodj]

For a little brevity

[rebelyell]

The financial system did collapse badly at the end of 2007. So badly the whole world reeled from it. It brought in a semi-socialist as president. The economy lagged for nearly every year he was in office because he was holding the recovery back with his policies. Once he left and released the choke hold he had on the country's economy, things flourished and have been ever since.

Once Trump is gone, we will have another socialist president at some point afterward and they will do the same economic stuff hurting the country. Everyone will turn their angst towards the greedy corporate structure demanding change and extra taxation against them not really understanding that we depend on those greedy corporate businesses to provide our jobs, and healthcare, and reasonably priced goods, and business taxes, etc. Those businesses will of course pass those expenses on to us the consumer Which hurts the economy even more. Given enough of that, people will eventually open themselves more to the idea of socialism where the benevolent government leaders care for all of us and help us manage our lives. That model has played out in other countries.

I think people see the world and all it's resources in two different ways:

socialists see the worlds resources as a fixed amount of pie and in order for one group to get more pie, you must take it from another group. There is waste, spillage and loss so everyone gets less pie in the end. Everyone is equally unhappy.

People who embrace capitalism and all its associated issues see the world and its resources as a pie that can be grown larger so that everyone's share of pie can be larger. Yes the people who have too much pie get even more pie but so what if everyone is getting more? Children whine about how unfair it is that their sibling is getting more pie than them. I see socialists in the same way. They would rather everyone had less of everything so we can all be equally unhappy.

In California, we are now allowing people in jail to vote about the issues that affect all of us including how much taxes I get to pay. Once they are off parole, they can serve as jury members as well. I wonder who those folks will be voting for in the upcoming elections.

I take one exception to all of this. Socialists see the worlds resources as a finite pie and the only way for their share to get bigger is to take a larger share from the producers by masking it as a distribution of wealth. The only people who benefit from this are the people in charge.

[torredcuda]

  If you look at any socialist country those at the top enjoy riches and privlages the rest aren`t  even allowed to have.

[dodj]

If you look at any socialist country those at the top enjoy riches and privlages the rest aren`t  even allowed to have.

I don't think so? Depends on your definition of socialist I guess. I consider Canada a socialist country. Higher standard of living than most.
Sweden is socialist. Not a bad place to live. Neither 'deny' people any privileges. You work for it, you earn it, you get it.  Now if you meant Communist, like China, I completely agree.

It works that way when a country goes hard left...or... hard right. The extremes in either case don't work well for the general population.

[Cuda Cody]

Thank you everyone for keeping this post pretty civil for as touchy of a subject it can be.  There's a lot of passion on both sides.  As long as it stays civil we'll keep it going, but if it gets out of line we'll need to close this off.    If I'm out of line feel free to tell me too.    I'm here to help keep this a welcoming place for everyone.



I've always said the goals of Republicans and Democrats is to get us to pick sides and then they monitorize the hate.  If a Republican and Democrat ever agree on something then it pretty much means we're about to get screwed.   

[Spikedog08]

So I have been monitoring this thread and all of you have been doing pretty well on keeping this civil . . . Thanks to all for keeping the board a friendly place to visit for all us ebody lovers! 

[Spikedog08]

Apparently the admins think alike!  lol  @Cuda Cody  . . you beat me on this post by just over a minute!  And we said almost the same thing!  WOW!  lol

[Mark_B]

Here in the UK, all the young people want to vote for the Liberal left, little do they know that our Labour leader is a Marxist.  He will take the UK back to 1920s Russia, nothing the UK has ever seen before.  He will nationalise everything and let the Unions run the country.  The UK will stop being the power house that it is.

We'll find out in 9 days if they young get there way.

And yes my 2 daughters are millennials and are preaching to me about it.

[70 Challenger Lover]

So when I started the post, I knew it had the potential to be touchy but I needed to vent about that poster. I've noticed the folks in here are quite decent to one another even when they disagree. That's partly what makes this such a great forum. No one getting run down for their opinions. I never doubted it would remain civil. I think when people on opposite sides refuse to engage in conversation, that's when the divisiveness begins.

It's true that countries like Sweden and Canada have embraced some socialist ideals and made it work somewhat but in my opinion, it's far more difficult to truly thrive in an environment like that. Especially when tax rates are so high. America certainly has flaws but it's key strength is that it creates an environment where anyone can be highly successful on their own if they are willing to apply themselves long enough. I know that's sounds far fetched but it's true. In Mexico, if you grew up in abject poverty, you probably will stay there all your life unless you turn to the drug trade. There are countless stories of Americans growing up in ghettos who dig themselves out and become highly successful. Sure it's hard but the government doesn't stand in your way. Government hand outs are actually a great way to keep people in poverty. No need to try when the government provides for your basic needs.

My neighbor grew up in Sweden and moved here to America after marrying a woman here. He told me about how difficult it is to survive out there financially. How hard it is to find good employment for so many Swedes. The immigration problems. How everyone lives in tiny apartments because they can't afford much else. He got a great job out here and learned a new trade. Recently he secured a job and the family is going back. It's only because of the new trade he learned and experience he gained here in America that gave him that opportunity back in Sweden and he admits it. And because he was able to leave America with $300k in equity from the sale of his American home, he is now able to buy his family a home that many others Swedes couldn't normally afford. He said most home owners out there are only home owners due to inheritance. The only reason he returned was to be with family and he finally had a way to do that and maintain a higher standard of living.

I don't know enough about Canada to venture an opinion about living conditions but I've noticed some Canadians on this forum have complained over the past few years about a sluggish economy, high income taxes, High import taxes and a low Canadian dollar compared to the American dollar.

I am happy for people that live happily in other countries. Doesn't mean I care to emulate them. I've had in good in this country for half a century and no one has ever had to give me a nickel. I think if people in other countries tasted the success, wealth and opportunity of this country, as my neighbor did, they would probably want their governments to be more like America rather than the other way around.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have also been watching this thread , Great job on keeping thing civil