Any tips on how to spot a fraudulent vintage Mopar?

[JH27N0B]

With the current topics here on Mecum and the rebodied V code cuda, it got me to thinking about how does one do their homework to research a vintage car that they are considering buying, to guard against buying a rebody, restamped block, or outright made up car? The cuda discussed now is not the first time I've seen cars at various auctions over the years that I've subsequently seen discussed on forums being outed for being fraudulent. 
I don't think you can trust the vintage car brokerages either.  In fact, I'm reminded of a V code Superbee that caught my eyes at a Mecum auction here a while back.  It ended up being bought at the auction by a well known auto brokerage in the Carolinas I won't name, because during the auction the car was discussed on Moparts, and a guy who ran a Superbee registry posted a picture of that Superbee's VIN number he had saved, when it was an N code! And then one of the owners of the car brokerage started contacting the people posting negative information on the car and threatening legal action against them!  The car was shown on their website for sale for several years but isn't there any more, so I assume someone is now the owner of that allegedly fake V code.
You can search VINs online to see if anyone has posted anything about the car you are thinking of buying, but beyond that, hiring an expert to inspect the car, or only buying clones, what can a car collector do to protect himself?

[anlauto]

I think an internet search of the VIN number should be everybody's first step

[RzeroB]

If these cars were only $5-10K I'd say do your due diligence and make a decision.

However, with the big money some of these cars are going for ... it becomes attractive for unscrupulous people to attempt to defraud someone. Like with any other big investment if you have any doubt, I think it would be best to hire the services of a professional inspector and evaluator. For Mopars, the first name that comes to my mind would be to hire the services of Dave Wise. 

[torredcuda]

Learn about the cars yourself, vin locations, fender tags, build sheets and learn how to spot  fakes. I think there is a good tutorial on vin locations on this site along with very knowledble people and plenty of info on the web. Vin search, owner history if there is any, photos of resto work and who did it. Beyond that hire an expert to check it out. I`m sure there are very good fakes/rebodies out there that may even fool some experts but at least you could 99% sure it`s legit after doing all that.

[torredcuda]

The unfortunate thing is us Mopar guys don`t the factory records like  Ford and Pontiac and some other makes do to get Marti reports and Pontiac historical documents, leaves us more open to that kind of fraud.

[JS29]

I have to agree about the records, but if a person has a complete rare car weather totaled or rotted out. they can re-body a good clean plan jane car and it would be near impossible to tell if the right guy did it.     

[JH27N0B]

I am not currently in the market for a car, but if I had a place to keep it I might be!  I bought one of my cars at a Mecum auction nearly 10 years ago and it worked out OK with a great Challenger.  However, with stories I hear I sometimes feel like I played Russian roulette when I bought it, and got lucky and didn't shoot myself!
I was interested in 2 Challengers at the auction.  There was a T/A which I asked around a bit online and was told the owner had it listed recently for quite a bit over what I had in my budget.  So I figured no way he would have the reserve low enough I would be able to buy it.  The other was a convertible that when I saw it, wasn't especially impressed.  I was ready to bid if the price was cheap, but it quickly bid well over what I'd pay.
I pretty much had given up.  However, another Challenger I hadn't intended to bid on because I figured its reserve was way over my budget was running late afternoon on the Saturday of the auction.  I threw in some bids more for laughs than anything.  Then the reserve was dropped and I put in another bid at the maximum I was willing to spend on a car.  I waited for the next bid, none came, sold!  To me!  I was shocked, but then I thought, oh crap, there must be a reason this car didn't go higher, something must be wrong with it!
Moments later, Greg Nelson of Mopar Ponderosa came up to me and introduced himself.  He told me he used to own the car and it was the cleanest E body he'd ever owned.  He congratulated me on my purchase and told me if I had any questions on it, feel free to call him. 
Also, the next day when I went to pick it up, the seller met me to give me some paperwork.  He told me he'd bought another car there and got desperate to sell the Challenger as he only had a one car trailer. But he had sellers remorse and told me if I wanted to sell it back to him let him know.
I felt like I had beginners luck though, and am wary of buying another car at auction again unless I can feel assured I've covered my butt.  I go to many auctions and there really isn't a ton of info given with the cars you see there, nor are the owners around to ask questions to.

[BIGSHCLUNK]

Brad, I have no answers thats for sure. But I'd be willing to bet there's a member or two here that don't "know" what's in the garage. Fraud is the world we live in, just answer a few weird numbers on your cell phone. I often wondered when I see some of these "numbers" cars that have been restored. Just how many can there really be, there's always another one at the next show. Good editing can put any of us at the scene of a crime..... I can't see this being any different

[torredcuda]

I have to agree about the records, but if a person has a complete rare car weather totaled or rotted out. they can re-body a good clean plan jane car and it would be near impossible to tell if the right guy did it.     

Ya, rebody would still be possible but creating a vin number or changing/adding options would be known.

[JH27N0B]

I just remembered that even Jerry Seinfeld got caught up in a controversy about whether or not one of his vintage cars was legitimate or not.
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/02/04/jerry-seinfeld-fake-porsche-lawsuit
If a very wealthy and well connected guy like him can get possibly ripped off on a car, what chance do us nobody's have?
One thing that strikes me is just how many allegedly restamped blocks and transmissions I hear about.  It would almost seem preferable now days to buy NOM cars, as at least then you are assured your block won't be discovered to be restamped! 

[71vert340]

  Which brings up another point when pointing out what you may consider to be a fraudulent Mopar. Quite a few years ago, I had my 71 convertible at a car show. I was standing near my car when I heard a guy make the comment my car was a fake to all within earshot - probably 10 people. I told him the car was mine and I bought the car in 1972, it had all its paperwork, fender tag, door VIN tag, stamping, numbers matching etc. He looked at me, said there was no way I could afford an original shaker vert, again said out loud it was a fake and walked away. He was wrong.If a car is not right, I agree people should be made aware of it but back up your accusations by checking everything out to back up your claim as has been done on several cars discussed on these mopar sites. I'm sure several people at this car show I had my car at believed this guy.  I encourage people to check over my car, to check the numbers, etc.
Terry