(Car) news from Washington state

[Mrbill426]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36152896/gasoline-cars-banned-2030-washington-state/?fbclid=IwAR2KFBrQqKfFmuOUj9T_KMbe5ZPh5YR6egVSuT9kYRUiCy1PmjyzrbWn1NI

[RUNCHARGER]

Yup: Washington state and B.C. Canada are wannabe Californians. Pretty country on the wet coast but there are other places in the world to live too with less hassles and more freedom.

[tparker]

I wonder what they are going to do when they shut off the power during fire season and you have to evacuate when your car isn't charged. Curious if any thought this stuff through.

[anlauto]

That's pretty crazy idea...

[71vert340]

 Going all electric cars will be interesting. Here in the northwest, they want to rip out all the hydro-electric dams giving us cheap power ( Snake river Dams, Grand Coulee, etc.) They want to decommission all the coal, gas and nuclear plants. They want to be on solar and wind turbines for our power. What happens when the wind doesn't blow and it's at night when most people want to charge those cars? Choose: refrigeration and A/C or electric cars. People need to realize the wind turbines use lubricating oil and solar panels and batteries require petroleum to manufacture them. Hmm. I worked in nuclear, steam and hydro electric power plants for over 30 years.
Terry Walker

[Mr Lee]

Makes me wonder about how much oil is actually left in the earth.  We only know what they tell us and if we're nearing the end of the supply, the last thing they want to do is cause a panic (we could be closer to the end of the supply than we all realize). 
Point is, eventually we're going to use it all up.  Transitioning off of oil is not going to be easy and will probably take longer than anyone thinks.  So it's probably in everyone's best interest to start the transition sooner than later and be prepared, as much as I hate the idea of relying on an electric car.  Like many people i would probably have to move closer to work because elec cars just dont have the range.  Im sure lots of people are in the same situation.

The point of how do people evacuate on an electric car when you cant even charge it is a very good point indeed.  And im sure there are a ton more examples like that that we're not even thinking of.  This could be chaotic


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[JS29]

We were suppose to run out of oil back in the seventy's! Politicians want to control more of our way's of life, and cater to the radical left.    

[tparker]

There is a finite amount of oil in the ground. We know of many oil fields and we have estimates until those are run dry. There are probably several others we will find at some point. We are not in danger or running out anytime soon despite what used to be said back in the 70's and 80's. But there is a finite amount that will run short at some point. But one thing that doesn't get much air play is that there are many types of oil in the ground. Some is easy to get. Tap it and you have oil. Others you need to process it more, from my understanding. And then there is Shell oil that is much harder to recover. Different oil fields require different techniques to harvest the oil. As technology improves, they can recover more and more oil in the ground.The statements that we will run out of oil in x years fails for the same reason Thomas Malthus' population theory failed to be realized. They both are static arguments that don't count for progress and ingenuity. It's not that the fundamental arguments are wrong, but they are applied incorrectly.

Wind and solar are great, but they are adjunct supply and can't scale. Many places don't get sun for days on end. The San Francisco Coast is notoriously foggy and over cast. You can go days with almost no sun. Other places get little wind. But regardless, the amount of energy outputted are not enough to seriously challenge other energy supplies. It's great for some and great as an auxiliary. Like it or not, Nuclear is the future and is where much of the world is moving.

I have no problem with Electric cars. They should have been working on them a while ago. But there are people who travel for a living and what not. Electrical cars are quite limited in range and charging. Trying to ban new gas cars is a political statement vs a technological or even a practical green issue. I fear they will start to go after existing gas cars as well. Here in California they were still attacking our car hobby despite the almost non existant number of classic cars, relatively speaking, on the road.

Just my rambling thoughts

[Chryco Psycho]

Nothing is free !
"Clean' electric vehicles may not pollute But look at the bigger picture - minerals to make batteries require mining [lithium], minerals to make solar panels require mining [tellurium ] , minerals to make wind turbines require mining [copper , steel ] Oh , what do you think the blades are made out of ? Also the entire interior of most vehicles is oil based including seat fabrics unless you have leather which is probably more environmentally friendly , eating beef the skin has to be used for something right ?
Last time I checked mining is pollution free & never hurts the environment .... Not .
Thorium is likely the best option for power supply & low pollution but Nuke provides materials for weapons , still about the most effcient energy .
Recycling - absolutely pollution free Not .
Electric is a decent solution getting away from oil but is still far from clean.
We need far better ideas often suppressed by the oil companies !
Look into Peak oil where it takes more then a barrel of oil to create a barrel of oil ... fun stuff !

[RUNCHARGER]

Yup: All the talk right now is electric and I don't think that's the answer. I think we still have to investigate other sources of power as well. I'm not against the new stuff actually, I figure the less oil and gas we use in our everyday drivers leaves more oil and gas for our classic toys. Electric cars will be in the future for sure however I think we could combine them with other power sources as well to meet the demand.

[JS29]

The power grid's won't be able to handle all the electric cars.

[HP2]

There are still a lot of undefined elements in this bill. Just because their legislature approved it, and even if the governor signs it, actually implementing it could completely derail it and the people could demand a reversal.  It also does not make gasoline cars illegal, it only prohibits the sale of new gasoline vehicles. So there is obviously going to be a undefined transition period before even the most  pie in the sky planners of this can make gasoline disappears. 

Once upon a time, the world ran on whale oil. We found alternatives and technology adapted.  I have no reason to believe we won't continue to develop technologies that will continue to evolve the ways we power humanity, create goods, and recover wastes. In many cases, an equilibrium must be reached in financial terms before change will be embraced. 

We were suppose to run out of oil back in the seventy's! Politicians want to control more of our way's of life, and cater to the radical left.   

Yea, cuz the radical right politicians and their view of a New World Order is a so much better alternative that allows us all the freedom we want. 

I actually subscribe to a theory that on one end of the spectrum is complete freedom because there are no laws at all and everyone can do and say
anything they want and chaos reigns. At the other end is totalitarian governance, whether traditional left or right policies, that dominate every aspect of life. Somewhere in the middle is where we have enough laws to maintain order, enough freedom to make choices, and a conscience to do the right things while still allowing profit motive.

[ragtopdodge]

Read the last lines on page 13 from the Washington State legislature on the amendment to E2SHB 1287. "nothing in this section authorizes any state agency to restrict the purchase, sale or registration of vehicles that are not electric vehicles"

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2021-22/Pdf/Bills/House%20Passed%20Legislature/1287-S2.PL.pdf?q=20210421163637

Need charging stations everywhere (at least rest stops); including on the sidewalks since many people park their cars on the street.

The only hope we have in the world is if we develop nuclear fusion energy.  South Korea got their reactor to work for 20 seconds.  That is amazing progress!

I'd rather throw $6 trillion in getting fusion energy going than what we spent on the Corona virus.

Imagine being able to power a whole city block w/nothing but from a cup of water!

[70 Top Banana]

So who does this hurt? Poor people who can't pay 70 k or more for an electric car, young buyers for the same reasons. Those people will not have transportation? Or is the State of Washington or their politicians have an interest in Uber?
Additionally, someone will need to prove to me that pollution is less and I don't think it is. I have worked in the industry over 30 years and here is the way I see it. What does it take to make batteries? Cobalt- where does it come from? They use kids to dig it out of the ground in Africa and they have no pollution laws and you can't hardly dispose of it. What else? Lithium- they mine that in some third world country and dig it as well using a lot of kids. They don't mine any of that stuff in the US because of pollution. How about the plastics? Hmm, non disposable or recyclable. Lead? The car run life on a battery pack is what? 5 years maybe 6 and by then you will be lucky to get 50 miles on a charge. So either you buy a new battery pack or sell the car for nothing. The battery pack cost? Depends on the car or truck $3500 to $10K. Then you have the power grid. The US generates about 70% or more of its power using coal. No additional pollution there- LOL.  This year the car companies will sell 17.5 M units. Imagine the pollution generated from 17.5M electric units that go to junk etc and I am betting all we are doing is moving the type pollution around and most likely worse than CO2 emissions. My two cents