down the re-body rabbit hole

[kdcarman]

From a practical perspective I have a question.
Is anyone aware of an actual criminal prosecution and/or civil judgement related to a "re-body"?

[340challconvert]

This has been a topic discussed many times.
It violates US Federal Law to remove vehicle ID number and move them to another vehicle.   There are exceptions listed in the first section.

A little light reading for anyone interested in this topic:
click on the link and there are explanations for each section in the statute.

This is from the Legal Information Institute at Cornell Law; a statutory source I referenced professionally before retirement;


18 U.S. Code § 511. Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers
U.S. Code
Notes
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(a) A person who—
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; or
(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act,
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(b)
(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by—
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.
(c) As used in this section, the term—
(1) "identification number" means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;
(2) "motor vehicle" has the meaning given that term in section 32101 of title 49;
(3) "motor vehicle demolisher" means a person, including any motor vehicle dismantler or motor vehicle recycler, who is engaged in the business of reducing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts to metallic scrap that is unsuitable for use as either a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part;
(4) "motor vehicle scrap processor" means a person—
(A) who is engaged in the business of purchasing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts for reduction to metallic scrap for recycling;
(B) who, from a fixed location, uses machinery to process metallic scrap into prepared grades; and
(C) whose principal product is metallic scrap for recycling;
but such term does not include any activity of any such person relating to the recycling of a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part as a used motor vehicle or a used motor vehicle part.
(d) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term "tampers with" includes covering a program decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act for the purpose of obstructing its visibility.
(Added Pub. L. 98–547, title II, § 201(a), Oct. 25, 1984, 98 Stat. 2768; amended Pub. L. 103–272, § 5(e)(3), July 5, 1994, 108 Stat. 1373; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXII, § 220003(a)–(c), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2076, 2077; Pub. L. 104–294, title VI, § 604(b)(, Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3507.)


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/511

[6Pack70]

Hold on to your hats boys and girls.....here we go!  Down the hole!!    Looks like myself and everyone I know that has restored a car should actually be prosecuted for tampering with it.  Removing the vin tag appears to be a felony.  Lol.  How will anyone ever enforce that law?

[6Pack70]

I'll be honest, I didn't click on the link and read on about the details.  I've removed more vin tags and restored them than I care to talk about. It seems like a person could be prosecuted for removing vin tags under the right circumstances.  I highly doubt anyone would care about guys restoring their cars dashes.

[RUNCHARGER]

Legality aside I know one thing for sure. I never want to own a car that the VIN has been moved onto or punched in by anyone other than Mother Mopar. Myself, I don't need the matching #'s engine block but I want all the VIN #'s on the body to be factory installed and match the registration or "title". Others don't seem bothered by it but I don't care, that's what I need on any car I own.

[70 Challenger Lover]

You know, it's also illegal for a store to remove a tag from the mattress prior to sale. And in California, it's illegal to burn wood in your fireplace during certain low air quality days. And as I mentioned before, it's illegal to tamper with your odometer even during a full restoration. It's probably illegal for me to paint car parts in my garage. And there are literally thousands, if not tens of thousands, of other laws that people violate each and every day without fear of being prosecuted.

There are a whole set of side issues that make many laws unworthy of prosecution. Lack of jury appeal, limited resources for investigation and prosecution, letter of the law versus spirit of the law, to name just a few. I work in the criminal justice world and trust me when I say there are hundred of thousands of laws in my state alone to govern all sorts of behavior but in reality, only the big stuff gets any attention. As it should be in my opinion. I really don't want to live in a world where the police come knocking on my door to check my fireplace for ash.

[Brads70]

I think my /6 car was rebodied.... I'm sure it used to be a Hemi car!   

[6Pack70]

 

[JH27N0B]

It would be interesting to get the perspective on this issue from an insider at one of the major auction houses. Many rebodied, misrepresented, and restamped type cars go through every one of the auctions I'm certain.  You don't see Mecum or Barret Jackson getting prosecuted.
I talked to a professional car inspector and he had some interesting stories to tell. He started out in the 80s in the car biz buying up clean cars from the west coast, bringing them home in the northeast, cleaning them up, dressing them up, and selling for a nice profit.
Flash ahead 20 years and he spots a Malibu at an auction he recognizes as one he brought home and sold years ago.  Except now it's being advertised as a genuine SS.  He informs the auction, but they basically tell him to pound sand.  He calls his wife and has her dig up his records and find the records for this car.  She does and sends a scan to him.  Only then does the auction believe him.
At another auction, he has 6 or 7 clients who have hired him to inspect cars they are interested in buying.  He inspects the cars, then invites them all to meet him at a nearby steakhouse, where he proceeds to tell them the bad news.  Each car is fake!
At this point 50 years after the cars were built, and after many owners, it's really scary being in the market for a vintage car and knowing the risk of getting something with skeletons in the closet!

[anlauto]

That's what I was saying, it's very common across all brands.

A friend here in Canada bought a 71 V code Cuda at one of the big auction companies...Got it home and a local expert pointed out it had been rebodied...he got his money back and they took the car back...no questions asked.

[kdcarman]

You know, it's also illegal for a store to remove a tag from the mattress prior to sale. And in California, it's illegal to burn wood in your fireplace during certain low air quality days. And as I mentioned before, it's illegal to tamper with your odometer even during a full restoration. It's probably illegal for me to paint car parts in my garage. And there are literally thousands, if not tens of thousands, of other laws that people violate each and every day without fear of being prosecuted.

There are a whole set of side issues that make many laws unworthy of prosecution. Lack of jury appeal, limited resources for investigation and prosecution, letter of the law versus spirit of the law, to name just a few. I work in the criminal justice world and trust me when I say there are hundred of thousands of laws in my state alone to govern all sorts of behavior but in reality, only the big stuff gets any attention. As it should be in my opinion. I really don't want to live in a world where the police come knocking on my door to check my fireplace for ash.

So here is my question.  Is anyone aware of an individual being held liable in the courts either criminal or civil related to changing the numbers from one classic car to another?

[70 Challenger Lover]

I am not but if such a matter has been taken to the courts, it would be in a civil court suing for money rather than criminal. You can sue someone for anything. You will never see any court in this country criminally prosecuting some old man for restoring his classic car and transferring the VIN numbers onto a new body. Those laws were made for chop shops and fast Eddie used car salesmen. And if something happened, it would be at the state level, not federal.

Most folks don't realize that nearly all federal crimes have similar laws in most every state. When people need to be prosecuted, it nearly always happens in the state system and not the federal system. They save that avenue for giant cases, cases affecting the nation rather than local jurisdictions, or for cases where the federal laws have no mirrored state laws. I couldn't get the FBI to look at ten million dollar fraud cases involving dozens of victims. They would openly laugh if someone notified them of an elderly gentleman rebodying his classic car during a restoration. Now they might look at the case if it was a nationwide company like Carmax altering cars and turning back odometers on used cars in a deliberate attempt to defraud tens of thousands of consumers nationwide.