electric cars

[Chryco Psycho]

An electric auto will convert 5-10% of the energy in natural gas into motion. A normal vehicle will convert 20-30% of the energy in gasoline into motion. That's 3 or 4 times more energy recovered with an internal combustion vehicle than an electric vehicle.

Electricity is a specialty product. It's not appropriate for transportation. It looks cheap at this time, but that's because it was designed for toasters, not transportation. Increase the amount of wiring and infrastructure by a factor of a thousand, and it's not cheap.

Electricity does not scale up properly to the transportation level due to its miniscule nature. Sure, a whole lot can be used for something, but at extraordinary expense and materials.

Using electricity as an energy source requires two energy transformation steps, while using petroleum requires only one. With electricity, the original energy, usually chemical energy, must be transformed into electrical energy; and then the electrical energy is transformed into the kinetic energy of motion. With an internal combustion engine, the only transformation step is the conversion of chemical energy to kinetic energy in the combustion chamber.


The difference matters, because there is a lot of energy lost every time it is transformed or used. Electrical energy is harder to handle and loses more in handling.

The use of electrical energy requires it to move into and out of the space medium (aether) through induction. Induction through the aether medium should be referred to as another form of energy, but physicists sandwich it into the category of electrical energy. Going into and out of the aether through induction loses a lot of energy.

Another problem with electricity is that it loses energy to heat production due to resistance in the wires. A short transmission line will have 20% loss built in, and a long line will have 50% loss built in. These losses are designed in, because reducing the loss by half would require twice as much metal in the wires. Wires have to be optimized for diameter and strength, which means doubling the metal would be doubling the number of transmission lines.

High voltage transformers can get 90% efficiency with expensive designs, but household level voltages get 50% efficiency. Electric motors can get up to 60% efficiency, but only at optimum rpms and load. For autos, they average 25% efficiency. Gasoline engines get 25% efficiency with old-style carburetors and 30% with fuel injection, though additional loses can occur.

Applying this brilliant engineering to the problem yields this result: A natural gas electric generating turbine gets 40% efficiency. A high voltage transformer gets 90% efficiency. A household level transformer gets 50% efficiency. A short transmission line gets 20% loss, which is 80% efficiency. The total is 40% x 90% x 50% x 80% = 14.4% of the energy recovered before the electrical system does something similar to the gasoline engine in the vehicle. Some say the electricity performs a little better in the vehicle, but it's not much.

Electricity appears to be easy to handle sending it through wires. But it is the small scale that makes it look cheap. Scaling it up takes a pound of metal for so many electron-miles. Twice as much distance means twice as much metal. Twice as many amps means twice as much metal. Converting the transportation system into an electrical based system would require scaling up the amount of metal and electrical infrastructure by factors of hundreds or thousands. Where are all those lines going to go? They destroy environments. Where is that much natural gas going to come from for the electrical generators? There is very little natural gas in existence when using it for a large scale purpose. Natural gas has to be used with solar and wind energy, because only it can be turned on and off easily for backup.

One of the overwhelming facts about electric transportation is the chicken and egg phenomenon. Supposedly, a lot of electric vehicles will create an incentive to create a lot of expensive infrastructure. There are a lot of reasons why none of the goals can be met for such an infrastructure. The basic problem is that electricity will never be appropriate for such demanding use as general transportation, which means there will never be enough chickens or eggs to balance the demand. It's like trying to improve a backpack to such an extent that it will replace a pickup truck. The limitations of muscle metabolism are like the limitations of electrical energy.

Electrons are not a space-saving form of energy. Electrons have to be surrounded by large amounts of metal. It means electric motors get heavy and large. When cruising around town, the problems are not so noticeable. But the challenges of ruggedness are met far easier with internal combustion engines. Engineers say it is nice to get rid of the drive train with electric vehicles. But in doing so, they add clutter elsewhere, which adds weight, takes up space and messes up the suspension system. Out on the highway, the suspension system is the most critical factor.

These problems will prevent electric vehicles from replacing petroleum vehicles for all but specialty purposes. The infrastructure needed for electric vehicles will never exist when limited to specialty purposes. This would be true even with the perfect battery which takes up no space and holds infinite charge.

*  *  *

[cataclysm80]

Our local power plant is powered by oil that comes down the river in the middle of the night on a big barge.

Any electric cars that are being charged here, are still getting their energy from oil.

[73440]

I always call them coal fired cars.
The owners will get a big surprise when it is time to pay for new batteries, probably will be the second or third owner.

[Markp]

Real cars drink dinosaurs.

[RUNCHARGER]

I'm up for something new for daily drivers anytime, We've been hosed for decades by the oil companies. However I am not convinced electricity is the way to go.

[HP_Cuda]

Neil

Your article points out the inefficiencies of our infrastructure. Do you wonder why Japan went to 220V while we are stuck at 110V. Just think of the efficiency losses by continuing to run a lower voltage throughout our "modern" electrical grid.

Main problems for electric going forward and have been since the electric car was invented in 1985 are the batteries. Once the power is generated the storage capacity and lifetime of said power has it's limits. The other problem is weight, even with newer Lipo, Li-on battery designs weight is a consideration as well as safety.

Some say that Elon Musk did not start Tesla to start a car company, he started it to further his battery technology to be put to use in every home in the US:
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

Sure there are issues with the way forward but if any Country in the world can solve these problems it will be the US.

B

p.s. Just a side note, Cars are third on the list for CO2 emissions - if one were smart we would start with the largest emitter and find ways to be more efficient - you guessed right it's Electricity and Heat production. Now let's forget about the planet for a second and focus on saving $$$ - efficiency saves $$$ and I think everyone likes to save $$$. 

[Chryco Psycho]

Not my article just copied , but yes the batteries are the biggest drawback to date

[soundcontrol]

Don't believe in plug-in cars. Too much loss of energy from producing the energy to actually driving the car. The hybrids are a different thing though, the idea to use the energy from the brakes to charge the batterys is a good one. Lots of lost energy there in a normal car. I don't know how effective it is now, but it works. My wife drive a Prius, and it is twice as efficient comparing to my car (I drive a diesel small SUV, VW Tiguan). They probably can make that system even more efficient. If they could add solar cells to charge the battery while parked at work, it would be even better.

The batterys seems to last, my wifes Prius is a 2010 model, no problems so far. And a friend has a -06 Prius, still no battery issues.

[HP_Cuda]

The problem with Hybrids (also have one for work) is that the battery degrades over time. You will see this when you fill up and your car tells you your range and it's not as high as it was before.

Guess how much it would cost to replace your hybrid battery?

[Markp]

This is a good explanation.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xh_VRrnMU

[Chryco Psycho]

Even Clean / renewable energy is not clean . Tellurium is needed for every solar panel & is very rare so there is a lot of mining involved just to get a small amount , I read somewhere that by the time they could met 15% of the worlds energy needs tellurium would be virtually exhausted . There is also significant cost in mining & producing copper & steel for electrics/ wind turbines etc , nothing is produced with zero emissions .

[HP_Cuda]

That video points out which areas of energy production should be culled (coal) and replaced with cleaner ones like natural gas.

Hey here's some food for thought:

Carbon capture for the Industrial sector which accounts for 40% of the emissions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adu4-ahLE_0

[RUNCHARGER]

According to do-gooders, nothing is any good. In my province we are building a hydro electric dam in a scrub part of the province. Of course the protesters are complaining about it right, left and center. I don't know where they are going to plug their phones and cars into for charging.

[HP_Cuda]

We can definitely do better with what we have.

I wish there was more emphasis on efficiency of what we currently have.

[71GranCoupe]

According to do-gooders, nothing is any good. In my province we are building a hydro electric dam in a scrub part of the province. Of course the protesters are complaining about it right, left and center. I don't know where they are going to plug their phones and cars into for charging.

I could tell them where to plug them in, but being a family orientated site, you will just have to guess.