Strange night last night(update)

[ledphoot]

Before passing judgement, the ENTIRE story needs to be heard. BOTH sides. Remember Travon Martin? Everyone blamed the shooter until all the evidence was revealed in court. Patience.........

Trayvon's shooting is a touchy one for me. Did Zimmerman shoot in self-defense? I believe so. Did he help create the situation where deadly force was required? Absolutely. If the prosecution had gone for some form of manslaughter they probably could have got a conviction on him. The guy was an idiot and not a good example of defensive shooting IMHO.

[js27]

The Travon Martin case was an open and shut case for a defensive shooting. That is why the police let him go at first. That case should have NEVER been brought to court. Thanks to Obama and the media who already judged him guilty and painted Travon as this good little boy was all bullshit.  Travon was the only one responsible for his death. Was Zimmerman a dick-maybe ? Zimmeriman has every right to be on that street and follow him and Travon had every right to be on that street and walk away but instead he made a fatal mistake. He CHOSE to physically assault another human being. No matter if Zimmerman provoked him or not as long as he wasn't putting Travon in danger he was in the right and that is why the courts judged him not guilty. If Travon was afraid of him for being followed he should have ran the other way or went to a house or business and called the cops but he didn't. Same exact thing happened with the Michael Brown shooting-the president and the media tried and convicted the office who shot him before and investigation was done. Hands UP DON'T SHOOT was the motto being put o shirts and bags and all over the news when in FACT it NEVER HAPPENED. From these two cases alone I learned not to rush judgement--wait for all the facts.
JS27

[ledphoot]

I don't disagree that Zimmerman shot in self-defense, not at all, or that Trayvon was a punk with a checkered history that escalated the situation to a physical confrontation,but I personally would not have put myself in that situation. Zimmerman made a bad choice which ruined his life, Trayvon made a worse choice and died for it. I will stand by what I stated, the Trayvon shooting is not a good example of self-defense, whether it was legal or justified, it could have been avoided, I would wager Zimmerman wishes he stayed in his vehicle and waited for police.

I also agree we should not jump to conclusions. The Michael Brown media circus was unbelievable, that kid attacked a cop and died for it. The media ruined the officer's life for doing his job, while perpetuating a false narrative that destroyed a community.

[Timbbuc2]

I think if it's proven that the person firing the gun did so in a reckless matter then his right to EVER own a firearm again should be revoked ...I don't care if he's an ex-cop or not. The reckless firing of a gun should also carry a prison term, whether the bullets hit a person or not.

You guys can insist on your right to own a gun all you want, but this kind of BS has to stop.

That was a stupid move on his part, after hearing more about it appears the shooter was the agitator,  the other guy was trying to get away, the wife made a stupid move confronting him. Again, their kids were in the truck. You can't fix stupid.
I agree with you @anlauto , this needs to stop

[Chryco Psycho]

 The quintessential reason why Grandpa Scott carries a gun.  Please take time to read this and pay particular attention to "A Little Gun History" about half way down.
Why Carry a Gun?
My old Grandpa said to me, "Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take a whipping.
I don't carry a gun to kill people; I carry a gun to keep from being killed.             
I don't carry a gun because I'm evil; I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the World.
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government; I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
I don't carry a gun because I'm angry; I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone; I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man; I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate; I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
I don't carry a gun because I love it; I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
Police protection is an oxymoron:  Free citizens must protect themselves because police do not protect you from crime; they just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take a whoopin'!

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY...
PLEASE DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT, THAT THIS COULDN'T HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY ALSO !!!
-----------------------
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control:  From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.   
-----------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control:  From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
-----------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938:  From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
China established gun control in 1935:  From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964:  From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970:  From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956:  From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
56 million defenseless people were rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control.
-----------------------
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun control laws adversely affect only the law abiding citizens.
With guns, we are 'citizens'; without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WW II, the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
Gun owners in the USA are the largest armed forces in the World!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.
The purpose of fighting is to win.  There is no possible victory in defense.  The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES A GUN TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT ISSUES AND TRAINS EVERY ADULT IN THE USE OF A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!  DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL law abiding CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

[ledphoot]

^^^^^On point as usual... Bravo Chryco

[js27]

Chryco--MY BROTHER FROM ANOTHER MOTHER !! The media just carries out the agenda of the left as the work for the left. They purposely  hide facts that go against their agenda. THE CDC just got caught lying to the public about the number of real self defense shootings last year. Their numbers were only off by 1 1/2 MILLION. It is sad but people need to educate themselves because they are being lie to everyday but left politicians and media. I wonder if Zimmerman won his multi Million dollar lawsuit against NBC for editing his 911 call to make him sound like a racist... I heard both versions and it was a blatant smear campaign against Zimmerman.
JS27

[dodj]

The media just carries out the agenda of the left as the work for the left. They purposely  hide facts that go against their agenda.

This is very true. Up here in Canada the government has been trying to convince Canadians that handgun violence is rising. It's not. Data shows a steady decline over the past 30+ years with a small blip every now and then, but overall a steady decline. So earlier this year the governing Liberal party (For my friends in the USA, our Liberal party is roughly equivalent to your Democratic party) a poll done for them regarding banning handguns in Canada. The results were 80% against banning handguns.

Guess what the headline was on the CBC? (government TV agency)

"Canadians Sharply Divided over Handgun Ban"

Really?!? 


And seeing as a subject like this can get emotional/political/angry, I'm not going to post any more about this and wait to hear from Timbbuc2 as to how his 'strange night' turned out legally for the shooter.

[anlauto]

Yea...lets not get too political please....

I have NO issues with someone wanting to own a hand gun. However I strongly feel that there needs to be stiffer penalties for misuse of a registered hand gun including jail time and a lifetime band from ever owner another gun reguardless of the outcome.

Example: If it's proven that this ex-cop was shooting up his neighbourhood because he was mad at some dude  he should do 3-5 years in prison and never be able to own a gun again legally 
OR
The Father who leaves his registered loaded handgun on his nightstand so his 5 year old son can accidently shoot and kill his sister  ....The Father needs to grieve the loss of his child while serving a prison term in my opinion....
OR
The returning Army Soldier who has a few beers and drives around town shooting up Stop signs....Treat him for PTSD while he's doing 3-5 ...

Our Governments will never win a fight against the NRA or the 2nd amendment, but they can certainly make laws with stiff penalties for people who blatantly misuse their right to own a hand gun.

I get that if a guy breaks into your home and rapes your wife and children you want to shoot him as many times as possible....I get that....but that same gun can also be use after you've had a few beers and the wife is refusing to wash the dishes....heck....just pop a cap in ur ass........    

[js27]

Every LAW ABIDING gun owner feels the same way. Criminal acts involving guns should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The problem is that because of criminals acts our liberal ( Democrats) want to punish all gun owners. Their agenda has nothing to do with saving innocent lives but taking away a citizens RIGHT to defend themselves against criminals or a Government that is out of control. I could go on and show example like Venezuela-North Korea-Russia-China-Brazil-France were this has already happened and you can see the results in the news everyday. I will be the first to admit that not all people should own a gun. I also have to admit that not all people should drive cars and not all people should become parents or pet owners. If you take guns away from everybody just because some dumb ass person left a loaded gun in a un locked night stand for a 6 year old to grab and shoot their sister or brother then you need to ban alcohol because drunk driver kill a lot more people than guns or should we just ban cars. NO you punish the guilty people not the whole country. Sorry for the rant--very touchy subject for Americans as communist left wing liberals are trying to take over our great country.
I am done now--
JS27

[Timbbuc2]

Yea...lets not get too political please....

I have NO issues with someone wanting to own a hand gun. However I strongly feel that there needs to be stiffer penalties for misuse of a registered hand gun including jail time and a lifetime band from ever owner another gun reguardless of the outcome.

Example: If it's proven that this ex-cop was shooting up his neighbourhood because he was mad at some dude  he should do 3-5 years in prison and never be able to own a gun again legally 
OR
The Father who leaves his registered loaded handgun on his nightstand so his 5 year old son can accidently shoot and kill his sister  ....The Father needs to grieve the loss of his child while serving a prison term in my opinion....
OR
The returning Army Soldier who has a few beers and drives around town shooting up Stop signs....Treat him for PTSD while he's doing 3-5 ...

Our Governments will never win a fight against the NRA or the 2nd amendment, but they can certainly make laws with stiff penalties for people who blatantly misuse their right to own a hand gun.

I get that if a guy breaks into your home and rapes your wife and children you want to shoot him as many times as possible....I get that....but that same gun can also be use after you've had a few beers and the wife is refusing to wash the dishes....heck....just pop a cap in ur ass........

@anlauto  the police feels the same way, found out today that the guy that was shooting was arrested for shooting into a occupied  vehicle, and the DA is looking at attempted murder charges
The truck was hit 6 times, in the tail gate and rear tire causing it to go flat.
The shooter was fired from the dept for apparently the same thing. MY question is why is this NUT still carrying a gun.

[anlauto]

Well that's good to hear....Maybe he'll go to jail at least...


Another sad statistic is the fact that a lot of these mass shootings at schools, mosques, events etc... are done with legally purchased guns.... That right there says the system is broke...

[1 Wild R/T]

Well that's good to hear....Maybe he'll go to jail at least...


Another sad statistic is the fact that a lot of these mass shootings at schools, mosques, events etc... are done with legally purchased guns.... That right there says the system is broke...

Might want to research that more... Some, Yes... A lot?  No...  And when it does happen it's generally because of a screening process screw-up, things that would in the past be a part of public record are now protected IE mental status, juvenile criminal history.... Or in some cases the gun was legally purchased then the perp loss the right to own firearms but still has a firearm which is supposed to be sold or turned over to police...

FWIW to date there hasn't been a single mass shooting perpetrated by an NRA member...   

[anlauto]

Well I hope that we would agree that ONE is one too many 

[1 Wild R/T]

Well I hope that we would agree that ONE is one too many 

Sure, one is to many.. But we don't need new laws to fix the problem, we need to enforce laws that are already in place.... 

For instance it sounds like this guy has already shown he doesn't know how to responsibly operate a firearm, he doesn't pay attention to where he's spraying rounds... If the department where he was terminated from knew he can't be trusted with a firearm why does he still have firearms? 

You need to have muzzle control & you need to understand if it leaves your barrel you are responsible for where it goes...  Firearms safety is pretty simple but crucially important....