Strange night last night(update)

[Jay Bee]

Here I get thrown in jail for defending my family and property.   

Absolutely. Even when you have video surveillance of 3 hired masked men fire bombing your house yelling, "are you ready to die" and you fire 3 warning shots to scare them away. When the cops arrive you get laid with 4 charges. Remember Ian Thomson of Port Colborne, ON (pop. 18K).
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/karen-selick/ian-thomson-charged-with-defending-self_b_2410861.html

[Brads70]

Just for fun I just googled Georgetown Ontario Shooting... Considering you have no legal handgun ownership there sure are allot of shootings around there....   

Here on the other hand we can own guns & getting a CCW permit varies from county to county... In my case there are more CCW permits in my county than anywhere else in California....

There was a time when Modesto had very little crime but various government programs to relocate former Oakland residents along with years of busing in low income folks from down south have drastically changed our crime statistics...

We have had to many home invasions, muggings, robberies, burglaries, vehicle break-ins & stolen vehicles..  According to our local PD we currently have 82 separate gangs in Modesto...

FWI handgun ownership is legal here in Canada,safety course and background test,   just strict storage laws.( which I'm OK with) Permits required to take it directly to and from a gun club, no where else is permitted. You are not allowed to use it for self defence technically.....
The theory of many is firearm ownership is a "privilege not a right"  but property rights muddy that
" theory" hence socialism in all it's glory.....

[7212Mopar]

It gets ugly when there is a natural disaster and all the animals come out while the police are busy. Case in point the 89 earthquake where the city of SF was in darkness for a whole week.

[WCC]

Actually when I think about it, I feel safer when I'm visiting friends and family "down south" because I know they are carrying . At least there I'd have a fighting chance. Here I get thrown in jail for defending my family and property.

Man I feel for you guys. You will be amazed at how many countries do not allow their citizens (more correctly referred to as subjects) to legally defend themselves. The Gun Free nonsense have penetrated far and wide into good-law-abiding societies - criminals love it because they hate for their victims to fight back and governments love it because they want the monopoly on violence.

We have had Gun Free advocates here telling woman to rather submit to rape than defending themselves for fear of the rapist causing them a more violent act such as shooting them.  This same Gun Free advocate has armed protection...hypocrite much. 

Have a look at each and every politician that proposes a gun ban - do they ever give up their VIP protection?

[Timbbuc2]

I think this a very good conversation that needs to be discussed,  pro or con, It don't matter where you live, it is good to have your opinion.
When Obama was president ( and I am not getting political) he was responsible for selling more guns and ammo. At one time in my area you would have to get on a waiting list. Even to buy 22 cal bullets it was tough to find them All because of the dialogue to limit the amount you could buy, same for Ak-47 and Ar-15 . Do I need these guns, do I need a 50 cal Desert Eagle, probably not but if I do I have them. My own personal Insurance policy.

[js27]

Again Alan you comment that people who carry guns live in fear is very common from anti gunners. In a way that is partially true. Carrying a gun is a major responsibly. More so in certain areas of the country. We have to worry if the gun is printing ? if someone happens to see it are they going to start screaming " They have a Gun"--the biggest fear is are we going to have to use it. We do not consider ourselves vigilantes or wild west cowboys or bad asses. One of the most important lessons I use to teach in my martial arts classes and my self defense classes is " Awareness of your surroundings". Do you lock your doors at night or when you are not home ? Do you lock your cars up when you are not around ? Why ? Fear comes from lack of preparation. We who carry try to be prepared. You say you have no fear of being shot-or assaulted or robbed then I say you know something no one else knows ( I know you taught us everything we know but NOT everything you know--LOL ) or you just made a choice that you are willing to take a chance that nothing will ever happen to you. You are also comparing where you live to everybody else in the world. If you live in a low crime area that is great for you but not everybody has the opportunity or means to do so. We who carry do not live in any more fear than anybody else --we live prepared for what may happen. I am a firm believer in " Better to have and not need than to need and not have".
JS27

[anlauto]

What came first the chicken or the egg ?

This conversation has no right or wrong answers and it will only continue to go in circles...

People say they carry a gun to be "prepared" to "protect" themselves and others from danger....that means they are scared something MAY happen to them...they have a FEAR or realization that they live in a dangerous part of the world.   Fear = Carry a gun.

Then there are people who say they have NO FEAR because they carry a gun .....even though fear is the reason they carry a gun....

What started this conversation is that I said..."I couldn't imagine having to live in fear" to the point where I felt I needed to carry a gun.

If I walk out my front door and it's overcast and very gloomy ...I chose to carry an umbrella to be "prepared" and "protect" myself from the possible chance of rain and getting wet. If it's a beautiful sunny day and there's not a cloud in the sky....I don't think twice about needing an umbrella.

Speaking for myself only....Where I live in Canada it seems it's mostly sunny and I'm happy to not have an umbrella.

[anlauto]

Also...Growing up for me we always had guns around. My Father kept a .22 rifle in the rafters of the basement, when my parents would go out, my brother and I would go outside with it and just shoot stuff for fun. WE had an older cousin that worked for C.I.L. ammunition division and when he would come to visit he would bring my brother and I little boxes of bullets for the .22.
All through my teen years we ALWAYS had air rifles, pellet guns, I even used a BB bun pistol as my bedroom door stop well into my 20's.

One day the local police were collecting guns to destroy them....We handed everything in and never looked back... never found a need for them.

[WCC]

If I walk out my front door and it's overcast and very gloomy ...I chose to carry an umbrella to be "prepared" and "protect" myself from the possible chance of rain and getting wet. If it's a beautiful sunny day and there's not a cloud in the sky....I don't think twice about needing an umbrella.

Think about guys that carry, not leaving that umbrella at home but putting it in the car in case the weather changes during the journey.

As for handing in guns that's just a WTF moment for me and something which I will never understand. I hope all the criminals in Canada did the same as law-abiding and stand-up citizens, and the politicians are saving a lot of tax dollars by giving up all their VIP protection.
I guess the only thing we can agree on is that giving up your freedoms is your right and so is my right not to do that. 

[dodj]

I've walked this earth for 53 years and never have I felt I needed to be "prepared" for the reality I might need to defend myself.

I've never felt the need either Alan. I'm in favor of being able to carry a gun, but honestly, I've never felt the need to have one on me. Unless I'm hunting....
There is a big difference between Chicago and where I live in rural Ontario though. My house is 20 acres of land and I can't see my neighbors. And I have a range set up in my back yard.

[kdcarman]

I've walked this earth for 53 years and never have I felt I needed to be "prepared" for the reality I might need to defend myself.

I've never felt the need either Alan. I'm in favor of being able to carry a gun, but honestly, I've never felt the need to have one on me. Unless I'm hunting....
There is a big difference between Chicago and where I live in rural Ontario though. My house is 20 acres of land and I can't see my neighbors. And I have a range set up in my back yard.

I would say most of Chicago is ok and you do not need to carry a gun.  Although with that said, I would not honk my horn or flip someone off on the Expressways in Chicago.  Seems there is a case of shooting road rage once a week.

It amazes me when I drive around Ontario,  how aggressive the drivers are - I suppose they are not concerned with being shot at.  lol 

[ledphoot]

If I walk out my front door and it's overcast and very gloomy ...I chose to carry an umbrella to be "prepared" and "protect" myself from the possible chance of rain and getting wet. If it's a beautiful sunny day and there's not a cloud in the sky....I don't think twice about needing an umbrella.

Think about guys that carry, not leaving that umbrella at home but putting it in the car in case the weather changes during the journey.

As for handing in guns that's just a WTF moment for me and something which I will never understand. I hope all the criminals in Canada did the same as law-abiding and stand-up citizens, and the politicians are saving a lot of tax dollars by giving up all their VIP protection.
I guess the only thing we can agree on is that giving up your freedoms is your right and so is my right not to do that. 

you believe you will never have a need for them... History has shown that you have made a terrible mistake and if not you, future generations will suffer greatly for it.

Venezuela is a prime example of this same mistake  that you can witness in real-time....

[ledphoot]

LoL

[HP_Cuda]

Getting back to the original post, one thing stuck out to me. The guy who fired on the fleeing car had absolutely no situational awareness. He could have hit his wife as well as other bystanders as the car took off. This is not responsible handing of hardware.

Now as to putting Pandora back in the box:

-Ben Franklin stated: "Those who give up liberty for security, deserve neither."
-When seconds count Police are only minutes away. (In this case 45 mins - geez!)

We can definitely do a better job of enforcing the laws that are already on the books as adding new ones will not change a criminals behavior. One thing that does strike me with all sorts of lawlessness that occurs as of late, I ask myself if the US practiced the level of tolerance for crimes that Singapore does we would be in a completely different state.

[JH27N0B]

I live near Chicago and these days I wouldn't want to go most places there unarmed.  Areas that used to pretty safe I hear more and more reports of shootings and criminals are getting really brazen.  Pulling guns and taking people's iPhones right on Michigan avenue.  Armed carjackings all over the place.  Hordes of 100s of kids descending on downtown and beating up people and looting stores when the weather is nice, until hundreds of cops show up and shoo them unto El trains back to their hoods,
I haven't gone to Chicago in a few years even though I live 15 miles away.
I don't have a concealed carry, it's on my list of a million things to do. But all in all the northwest and west suburbs are safe.  More and more crazies out there though, as I posted earlier, really need more mental institutions and get on top of the issues with side effects of all the drugs the medical industry dopes so many up with!
Interesting fact that is an inconvenient truth to the guns cause crime and gang violence crowd.  We have a border crisis going on, and they say these central American refugees are escaping poverty and terrible gang violence in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador.  Murder is an epidemic there.
Yet guns are outlawed in those countries.  How can that be possible if gang violence is caused by gun laws not being strict enough??