Turkey and Covid?

[worthywads]

It seems like the same situation is brewing in the US now, just substitute "Republican", "Trump supporters", "red state" and "conservatives " for "Jews", "gays", "Gypsies" and "Catholics" and you likely will come to the realization us mortal humans learn little to nothing from history as we seem to be falling into the same situation the people of Germany did less than 90 short years ago.

just substitute "Democrat", "Let's go Brandon", "blue state", "Libtard", "communist", "socialist".........

[dodj]

I don't live in your country and have tried to ignore US politics since 2016, so I' won't comment on your 1930's comparison.
But completely agree with your last paragraph. Myself, I'm twice shot up with Moderna. I'll go get a third, fourth, fifth..whatever. I don't push my vaccine views on others.
But I'm carrying on with life as normal now as I can. Out for dinner, movies, travelling. We just got back from visiting Minnesota, which by the way has a much more intelligent mask rule than Ontario. In Minnesota If you are vaccinated - carry on normally. If you are unvaccinated - wear a mask.

[Bullitt-]

      I'm not here to argue with anyone but the NPR thing really makes me wonder.
I don't have the time or resources to check their data so won't question that they got what the got....somehow. But just for kicks and giggles I've done a little study of my own.
  I live in a Trump hotspot, I think Alabama may have gone heavier in his favor than most any other state. I also hear that we are one of the least vaccinated populations in the US. I however, as well as just about everyone else I know have been vaccinated so I'm not coming at this from a position of being anti-vax.  Alabama also has one of the worst healthcare systems overall of any state on top of what I understand is one of the unhealthiest populations (thanks Mississippi). 
  So I thought I'd compare AL to New York City....at least Kings County that I could get data on..

Alabama Trump 62%    Kings Co. Biden 60.9 
https://www.270towin.com/states/alabama
https://www.270towin.com/states/New_York

  Covid Deaths the last 7-days
Alabama 1                 Kings Co  5 (7-day average)
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/alabama
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/new-york/county/kings-county
     
    Population 2021
Alabama 5,024,279     Kings Co 2,523,560

    #Covid Deaths adjusted for population
Alabama  2                 Kings Co 5

   Math says you were 2.5 times more likely to die with Covid last week in NYC than AL
Just Sayin.     

[worthywads]

      I'm not here to argue with anyone but the NPR thing really makes me wonder.
I don't have the time or resources to check their data so won't question that they got what the got....somehow. But just for kicks and giggles I've done a little study of my own.
  I live in a Trump hotspot, I think Alabama may have gone heavier in his favor than most any other state. I also hear that we are one of the least vaccinated populations in the US. I however, as well as just about everyone else I know have been vaccinated so I'm not coming at this from a position of being anti-vax.  Alabama also has one of the worst healthcare systems overall of any state on top of what I understand is one of the unhealthiest populations (thanks Mississippi). 
  So I thought I'd compare AL to New York City....at least Kings County that I could get data on..

Alabama Trump 62%    Kings Co. Biden 60.9 
https://www.270towin.com/states/alabama
https://www.270towin.com/states/New_York

  Covid Deaths the last 7-days
Alabama 1                 Kings Co  5 (7-day average)
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/alabama
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/new-york/county/kings-county
     
    Population 2021
Alabama 5,024,279     Kings Co 2,523,560

    #Covid Deaths adjusted for population
Alabama  2                 Kings Co 5

   Math says you were 2.5 times more likely to die with Covid last week in NYC than AL
Just Sayin.     

I'll take a crack at at something similar using your source.

Covid Deaths 7-day average Dec 7

Alabama 11  Kings Co 5.

Adjusted for population math says you were 0.9 times more likely to die with Covid using 7-day average the week before in NYC than AL looking at a small sample period

I'll take more stock in 7 months worth of data and assume you would too. You and I both demonstrated how it is easy to produce inaccurate results with short sample lengths.

[dodj]

Personally, I think population density is the real driver. If I was going to pick a place to live to avoid covid....... I'd probably pick AL over NY. I could probably avoid big crowds easier......Plus they probably have better fishing and hunting....

I have a tough time putting much faith in anybody's statistics. You have to THOROUGHLY AND COMPLETELY understand the method to get any real truthful info out of it. And I usually don't want to spend the time analyzing someone's numbers.

[Bullitt-]

I'll take a crack at at something similar using your source.

Covid Deaths 7-day average Dec 7

Alabama 11  Kings Co 5.

Adjusted for population math says you were 0.9 times more likely to die with Covid using 7-day average the week before in NYC than AL looking at a small sample period

I'll take more stock in 7 months worth of data and assume you would too. You and I both demonstrated how it is easy to produce inaccurate results with short sample lengths.


[/quote]
  If you scroll the entire list of AL counties you will see 1-death in 7-days... Where they come up with the 7-day average I have no idea but that was all I had to work with from Kings Co.  Not trying to whodo ya..
  I've often heard when your looking for a given outcome look hard enough & you will find it.   But honestly these were the only #s I looked for and didn't expect that result.  Next week could different   

[torredcuda]

In Minnesota If you are vaccinated - carry on normally. If you are unvaccinated - wear a mask.

That actually makes NO sense as the vaccine does NOT prevent you from getting or transmitting Covid.

[torredcuda]

I don`t doubt more liberals are vaccinated than conservatives but data for cases is constantly changing - one area may have many cases one month and few the next and the other area could be completely opposite but it doesn`t really prove anything.

[worthywads]

I don`t doubt more liberals are vaccinated than conservatives but data for cases is constantly changing - one area may have many cases one month and few the next and the other area could be completely opposite but it doesn`t really prove anything.

Cases weekly/monthly indeed are all over, that why accumulated deaths over time makes a better measurement.

And so the study explained that is why they chose the last 7 months starting May 1.  Sure things may change some as additional deaths are recorded, but  this is cumulative death.  I wouldn't expect this to somehow flip to Biden voter/vax deaths surpassing Trump voter/non-vax. Unless of course the vaccinated die off because of the vaccine itself like some have speculated.

3000 counties and 7 months is significant data.  They not only show the averages but all the individual counties on the graph, at 250 deaths per 100,000 it is only 50% Trump and greater that remain, and lots of counties.  Fact, more people have died on average in counties that have low vaccination, other choices and circumstances have some play, but vaccination level is pretty important.


Another study could compare pre-vaccine to see how deaths compared by county when no one was vaccinated.  Then we can speculate what choices and circumstance (masks, social distancing, population density....) produced differing death tolls.

[dodj]

In Minnesota If you are vaccinated - carry on normally. If you are unvaccinated - wear a mask.

That actually makes NO sense as the vaccine does NOT prevent you from getting or transmitting Covid.

I'm not worried about contracting or transmitting once vaccinated. It's as much as I can do. The masks most people use are, well, questionable as to their effectiveness. So I will carry on normally now. The only other option is hiding in my house..and ....well...$%^& that.
But, to each, their own. I'm not concerned about unvaccinated people giving it to me either. Do what you want. Don't want a vaccine? Fine. Take your chances. I'm going to, as the saying goes, keep calm and carry on.

[worthywads]

  If you scroll the entire list of AL counties you will see 1-death in 7-days... Where they come up with the 7-day average I have no idea but that was all I had to work with from Kings Co.  Not trying to whodo ya..
  I've often heard when your looking for a given outcome look hard enough & you will find it.   But honestly these were the only #s I looked for and didn't expect that result.  Next week could different   

Yeah I wondered about the apparent discrepancy between the 7-day average graph and the list?

For fun I used your link to compare my Boulder County, considered to be the most liberal county in Colorado with our neighbor to the north Weld County considered very conservative for the front range, and much more rural.

Population
Boulder Co - 330,758
Weld Co - 328,971
Alabama -  5,024,279

Deaths so far
Boulder - 228
Weld - 554
Alabama - 16,206

Deaths per 100,000
Boulder - 68.9
Weld - 168
Alabama - 323 that is pretty bad.

Unlike Minnesota, Boulder county has continued an indoor mask mandate regardless of vax status, yes this causes some protests.  I still go to work and wear a mask indoor unless working more than 6 feet from others.  Restaurants, masks unless seated, all stores all the time.

I drove the Challenger from Boulder to Alabama to Tim Wellborn's show in Oct.  Honestly I didn't see anyone wearing masks along the entire route.

[Bullitt-]

  If you scroll the entire list of AL counties you will see 1-death in 7-days... Where they come up with the 7-day average I have no idea but that was all I had to work with from Kings Co.  Not trying to whodo ya..
  I've often heard when your looking for a given outcome look hard enough & you will find it.   But honestly these were the only #s I looked for and didn't expect that result.  Next week could different   

Yeah I wondered about the apparent discrepancy between the 7-day average graph and the list?

For fun I used your link to compare my Boulder County, considered to be the most liberal county in Colorado with our neighbor to the north Weld County considered very conservative for the front range, and much more rural.

Population
Boulder Co - 330,758
Weld Co - 328,971
Alabama -  5,024,279

Deaths so far
Boulder - 228
Weld - 554
Alabama - 16,206

Deaths per 100,000
Boulder - 68.9
Weld - 168
Alabama - 323 that is pretty bad.

Unlike Minnesota, Boulder county has continued an indoor mask mandate regardless of vax status, yes this causes some protests.  I still go to work and wear a mask indoor unless working more than 6 feet from others.  Restaurants, masks unless seated, all stores all the time.

I drove the Challenger from Boulder to Alabama to Tim Wellborn's show in Oct.  Honestly I didn't see anyone wearing masks along the entire route.

Hope you had a good visit... 

  Yep it's bad, we had 3-counties of 67 in the 1st few months that accounted for a good chunk, 26% of deaths, these are not the most conservative populations ...
The county I live in Madison has had 192 Deaths per 100,000 which is well below average for most states and we're one of the most populous.  But really we're not that much worse than 1/2 of the states.... thank goodness for Mississippi

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/


If your interested in #s I found on the original link there is an Excel file available near the bottom in the section called "Download Data" "DEATHS"... You get the whole USA 
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/alabama

[JH27N0B]

It seems like the same situation is brewing in the US now, just substitute "Republican", "Trump supporters", "red state" and "conservatives " for "Jews", "gays", "Gypsies" and "Catholics" and you likely will come to the realization us mortal humans learn little to nothing from history as we seem to be falling into the same situation the people of Germany did less than 90 short years ago.

just substitute "Democrat", "Let's go Brandon", "blue state", "Libtard", "communist", "socialist".........

I bet you are a lot of fun at parties!
No one on the right who I'm aware of advocates persecuting opponents and even putting their political enemies in re-education camps. All too many on the left do.  And it's not just some radical college professors, even many in power think this way.  Google Clinton's labor secretary Reich (like in Third Reich) if you want an example of one of them who let it slip what their ultimate goal is.
He called it a truth and reconciliation commission, I call it evil.
Look at all the people out there now calling for persecution of those who haven't gotten vaccinated. Scary.
In Australia, a supposed free Democracy like the US, they are putting people in Covid internment camps. Am I really just a paranoid fool to say this government overreach is getting out of control?
Stop letting politicians from either side of the aisle control your thinking. They are not your friends, and quite frankly most of them aren't even very smart. Neither side can really claim to have done a good job managing Covid.  I am not sure any place in the world has either. You hear some country has been doing well, then months later you hear they are having a big outbreak.
When I was in college one of my favorite songs was by the great musician and social critic Frank Zappa called "Dumb all over".  If Frank was still alive, I wish he'd have released an updated version of that song now, substituting the word "politician" for "god" in the song, along with a few other minor tweaks. As a result, that great song would really nail it, because too many today are even dumber all over, and a little uglier on the side, by worshipping politicians and thinking their political opinions make them the moral equivalent to "born again", than the religious fanatics Zappa was attacking in the early 80's with his song ever were.
And before you do the predictable Janet Brady routine saying "Trump Trump Trump" I didn't vote for him in 2016, and although he did better on policies than I'd feared then, I never became a huge fan. And I have my little vaccine card reflecting my Moderna shots last spring. I even got my flu shot in October.
I dutifully put my silken face panties on when I go to the store or walk around at work as mandated, but haven't seen any evidence they do any good. One of those not worth fighting about situations.
Even last year I was out and about whenever I had a chance, a few car shows that weren't canceled and other opportunities to socialize.
Somehow I've managed to survive and expect something other than Covid will be what eventually puts me 6 feet under!

[anlauto]

Up to seven pages now and still going, lets keep it interesting and watch that our political comments don't get too political 

[worthywads]

It seems like the same situation is brewing in the US now, just substitute "Republican", "Trump supporters", "red state" and "conservatives " for "Jews", "gays", "Gypsies" and "Catholics" and you likely will come to the realization us mortal humans learn little to nothing from history as we seem to be falling into the same situation the people of Germany did less than 90 short years ago.

just substitute "Democrat", "Let's go Brandon", "blue state", "Libtard", "communist", "socialist".........

I bet you are a lot of fun at parties!
No one on the right who I'm aware of advocates persecuting opponents and even putting their political enemies in re-education camps. All too many on the left do.  And it's not just some radical college professors, even many in power think this way.  Google Clinton's labor secretary Reich (like in Third Reich) if you want an example of one of them who let it slip what their ultimate goal is.
He called it a truth and reconciliation commission, I call it evil.
Look at all the people out there now calling for persecution of those who haven't gotten vaccinated. Scary.
In Australia, a supposed free Democracy like the US, they are putting people in Covid internment camps. Am I really just a paranoid fool to say this government overreach is getting out of control?
Stop letting politicians from either side of the aisle control your thinking. They are not your friends, and quite frankly most of them aren't even very smart. Neither side can really claim to have done a good job managing Covid.  I am not sure any place in the world has either. You hear some country has been doing well, then months later you hear they are having a big outbreak.
When I was in college one of my favorite songs was by the great musician and social critic Frank Zappa called "Dumb all over".  If Frank was still alive, I wish he'd have released an updated version of that song now, substituting the word "politician" for "god" in the song, along with a few other minor tweaks. As a result, that great song would really nail it, because too many today are even dumber all over, and a little uglier on the side, by worshipping politicians and thinking their political opinions make them the moral equivalent to "born again", than the religious fanatics Zappa was attacking in the early 80's with his song ever were.
And before you do the predictable Janet Brady routine saying "Trump Trump Trump" I didn't vote for him in 2016, and although he did better on policies than I'd feared then, I never became a huge fan. And I have my little vaccine card reflecting my Moderna shots last spring. I even got my flu shot in October.
I dutifully put my silken face panties on when I go to the store or walk around at work as mandated, but haven't seen any evidence they do any good. One of those not worth fighting about situations.
Even last year I was out and about whenever I had a chance, a few car shows that weren't canceled and other opportunities to socialize.
Somehow I've managed to survive and expect something other than Covid will be what eventually puts me 6 feet under!

Well you've got a lot of opinions, not going to bother arguing against your opinion, I have been trying to keep to numbers and statistics that I can trust and make sense to me.

I have seen plenty of evidence that makes me conclude that masks and distancing and vaccines have had a significant positive result.

If you came to one of my parties, you'd find your first guess is all wrong.  I could let you pick from a dozen Zappa albums to spin on the turntable.  Frank sure would have had little good to say about the current GOP and likely Dems as well, but he was never a friend of the right.

You could choose from 30 different scotches, 10 different bourbons, 15 different Avery beers.  Bring your own drugs if you want, I only provide alcohol.


ps

The idea that a fascist Nazi like takeover of the US from the left is comical while we are actually seeing Trump (yeah you can say you aren't a fan) still hold complete control of the GOP, speak against him and you are ostracized.  He remains actively attempting to overturn the election he lost including leading a poorly attempted Jan 6 coup.

HIs BIG LIE is just that, he lost, there was no election fraud like he says.  Do you buy Q?

If you truly fear as you say " evil forces in media and politics convince you to join a growing force that very possibly lead to another tragic permanent stain on the history of the human race." , you might stop projecting what is actually happening from the right on to what you fear from the left, but which is not a thing.