Turkey and Covid?

[anlauto]

I like Quebec's new  health TAX idea....you don't want to get vaccinated...then you get TAXED  and you still can't go into restaurants

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/quebec-plans-to-hit-unvaccinated-with-a-significant-tax/ar-AASFUmJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

[Mopsquad]

As a former Montrealer,  that Quebec legislative maneuver does not surprise me. 

[dodj]

As a former Montrealer,  that Quebec legislative maneuver does not surprise me.

I'm surprised,  but I've only been in Montreal for the f1 race...

[cuda hunter]

I like Quebec's new  health TAX idea....you don't want to get vaccinated...then you get TAXED  and you still can't go into restaurants

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/quebec-plans-to-hit-unvaccinated-with-a-significant-tax/ar-AASFUmJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

You think that is a good idea and agree with it? 

[torredcuda]

 "People who refuse to get vaccinated impose a burden on (health care) personnel and an important financial burden on the majority of Quebecers."
The data shows  it`s not just the unvaccinated filling up  hospitals and in some cases there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated in ICUs  so he`s lying. I guess next is a fat tax, an alcoholic tax, an out of shape tax, a smoker tax, a sports tax and so on as they all make people sick/injured and tie up hospital beds?

[anlauto]

They already TAX  the heck out of smokes and booze......and of course I agree with it, it's NOT my province (YET) and I'm triple vaxxed anyways

[njsteve]

"People who refuse to get vaccinated impose a burden on (health care) personnel and an important financial burden on the majority of Quebecers."
The data shows  it`s not just the unvaccinated filling up  hospitals and in some cases there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated in ICUs  so he`s lying. I guess next is a fat tax, an alcoholic tax, an out of shape tax, a smoker tax, a sports tax and so on as they all make people sick/injured and tie up hospital beds?

"and in some cases there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated in ICUs"

In no cases does it show this. There isn't a single medical facility in the US or Canada that has more vaccinated people than unvaccinated in the ICU from covid.

Here's my proof: I have family members working in ICUs. From their firsthand experience, 99% of the dead and soon-to-be, are unvaccinated. From their experience, the vaccinated that have died, have had serious preexisting medical conditions - cancer, smokers, heart disease, severe obesity.

You want to twist statistics? I bet right now in NYC there is an ICU filled up with all the survivors of the apartment fire that killed 17 people over the weekend. Are you going to use that particular ICU as a statistic for your argument?

I'm fully vaccinated. Did it the soonest I could last year and got boosted in the Fall. I just got a pos result on 1/10/22 for test I took on 1/7, which was the soonest date I could get a PCR test here. I took the test because I had a sore throat for a single day on 12/30/2021. I was at the gym earlier that week and some sketchy guy was coughing on everyone and everything there, so I figured after I had the sore throat I should get tested, just in case. (And I later learned he had an active case of covid and just didn't care)

So there is my first hand experience with being vaccinated and getting covid: a sore throat for 12 hours. No temp, no other symptoms at all. I've been staying home since I got the pos results so I dont accidentally spread to other people and family members (all of whom are vaxed). Fifth day past the pos test is today, so tomorrow I get to go out again.

I'm old and from a generation of people who got vaccinated not just for themselves but in order to establish a herd immunity so the disease has no one left to infect and mutate into new versions. I have lots of family members in the medical field. I have personal experience of what can happen when you dont get vaccinated: my younger brother and sister (twins) were born during the German Measles/Rubella epidemic of the early 1960's. When my mom went to go to one of her prenatal doctor's appointment, the babysitter they hired to watch me had a case of Rubella and didn't bother to tell my parents. She spread it to my mother in the early days of her pregnancy with the twins. They were both born with major hearing defects (a common result of in-utero infection). They were lucky though, most kids were miscarried, or still-born full term, or born without limbs from a single exposure by the mother. So a year later when the vaccine was developed, it was made mandatory in order for a kid to attend school. EVERYONE got it and Rubella was removed from the major threat list to children. That's why kids still get it as a basic childhood vaccination.  And that vaccine was developed faster than the ones that everyone are screaming about now.

Yes you do have a choice: Dont get vaccinated for covid if you don't want to. But if you do wind up in an ER/ICU be prepared for a $500,000+ medical bill that will pretty much bankrupt you and/or your spouse/family, even if you do survive the disease and the resulting permanent damage it does to your body.

You have a choice...and so do the people that have to deal with you in the world. The doctors, the hospitals, the medical insurance companies.

Be prepared for insurance companies to start massively increasing the deductibles for unvaccinated, raising premiums, or even dropping coverage altogether for those without vaccination. It's their choice, too as private businesses.

[dodj]

I guess next is a fat tax, an alcoholic tax, an out of shape tax, a smoker tax, a sports tax and so on as they all make people sick/injured and tie up hospital beds?

This is exactly the problem. Everything you do has a certain amount of risk. Important for Americans to note in this, is we have universal health care. You get sick or break something, you go to the hospital. At the end of which you have no bill to pay. You have pre-paid, heavily, upfront in your income taxes.
So to pick out one particular situation and say you have to pay for it out of pocket after you already paid 'your share' is ridiculous. I Suppose downhill skiers will soon have to pay for broken legs? smokers will have to pay for everything. What you don't exercise? You should have..so here's your bill. Didn't eat a balanced diet? Uh Oh. $$
As mopsquad suggested. Society is a little different in Quebec, some might even say distinct..lol. So I don't know how this is going over with public opinion there.
Everybody has a breaking point..and Canadian politicians seem to be trying to find out where that is.

[torredcuda]

"People who refuse to get vaccinated impose a burden on (health care) personnel and an important financial burden on the majority of Quebecers."
The data shows  it`s not just the unvaccinated filling up  hospitals and in some cases there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated in ICUs  so he`s lying. I guess next is a fat tax, an alcoholic tax, an out of shape tax, a smoker tax, a sports tax and so on as they all make people sick/injured and tie up hospital beds?

"and in some cases there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated in ICUs"

In no cases does it show this. There isn't a single medical facility in the US or Canada that has more vaccinated people than unvaccinated in the ICU from covid.

Here's my proof: I have family members working in ICUs. From their firsthand experience, 99% of the dead and soon-to-be, are unvaccinated. From their experience, the vaccinated that have died, have had serious preexisting medical conditions - cancer, smokers, heart disease, severe obesity.

You want to twist statistics? I bet right now in NYC there is an ICU filled up with all the survivors of the apartment fire that killed 17 people over the weekend. Are you going to use that particular ICU as a statistic for your argument?

I'm fully vaccinated. Did it the soonest I could last year and got boosted in the Fall. I just got a pos result on 1/10/22 for test I took on 1/7, which was the soonest date I could get a PCR test here. I took the test because I had a sore throat for a single day on 12/30/2021. I was at the gym earlier that week and some sketchy guy was coughing on everyone and everything there, so I figured after I had the sore throat I should get tested, just in case. (And I later learned he had an active case of covid and just didn't care)

So there is my first hand experience with being vaccinated and getting covid: a sore throat for 12 hours. No temp, no other symptoms at all. I've been staying home since I got the pos results so I dont accidentally spread to other people and family members (all of whom are vaxed). Fifth day past the pos test is today, so tomorrow I get to go out again.

I'm old and from a generation of people who got vaccinated not just for themselves but in order to establish a herd immunity so the disease has no one left to infect and mutate into new versions. I have lots of family members in the medical field. I have personal experience of what can happen when you dont get vaccinated: my younger brother and sister (twins) were born during the German Measles/Rubella epidemic of the early 1960's. When my mom went to go to one of her prenatal doctor's appointment, the babysitter they hired to watch me had a case of Rubella and didn't bother to tell my parents. She spread it to my mother in the early days of her pregnancy with the twins. They were both born with major hearing defects (a common result of in-utero infection). They were lucky though, most kids were miscarried, or still-born full term, or born without limbs from a single exposure by the mother. So a year later when the vaccine was developed, it was made mandatory in order for a kid to attend school. EVERYONE got it and Rubella was removed from the major threat list to children. That's why kids still get it as a basic childhood vaccination.  And that vaccine was developed faster than the ones that everyone are screaming about now.

Yes you do have a choice: Dont get vaccinated for covid if you don't want to. But if you do wind up in an ER/ICU be prepared for a $500,000+ medical bill that will pretty much bankrupt you and/or your spouse/family, even if you do survive the disease and the resulting permanent damage it does to your body.

You have a choice...and so do the people that have to deal with you in the world. The doctors, the hospitals, the medical insurance companies.

Be prepared for insurance companies to start massively increasing the deductibles for unvaccinated, raising premiums, or even dropping coverage altogether for those without vaccination. It's their choice, too as private businesses.

So they are lying? 
In ICU
Unvaccinated cases  138
Partially vaccinated cases  14
Fully vaccinated cases  158

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#vaccine-status-data

[torredcuda]

They already TAX  the heck out of smokes and booze......and of course I agree with it, it's NOT my province (YET) and I'm triple vaxxed anyways

But where does that tax money go and how is it spent? Does it go to Drs and hospitals to care for patients, spent on trying to lower alcohol and tobacco use/abuse or is it spent elsewhere?

[cuda hunter]

measles death rate is far higher than covid and affects unborn and adolescents the most.  Depending upon the source it's death rate today is 4-7%. 
Measles killed 2.6 million people each year for many  years before a proper vaccine was created.  there were several trials on the vaccine that caused quite the issues. 
Regardless, 2.6 million per year, mostly young people.  Not a disease of the old that have lived their whole lives, are now old and have co morbidities. 

Covid affects old people mainly.  Doesn't cause mass birth defects.  Doesn't kill more than .07% of those who contract it.  Death rates aren't even at 2% for old people. 

I find it difficult to compare the two.   For that  matter, to compare covid to any of the disease vaccines I have received is difficult. 

My concern is not with who gets it, my concern is with how the unvaxed are treated by the vaxxed. 
No concern with natural immunity from having covid.  No concern with religions beliefs.  No concern with personal freedom and rights.  No concern with medical issues. 

It's either, get vaxxed or your a bad person, who is endangering my grandpa. 

Look at the bright side for the morally unjust.  Most of the unvaxxed will die if this is so serious.  But let's take as much of their money, taxes and freedom while they are still alive.   Let's ridicule them for making their own choice to die.  Let's condemn them by taking the thing that gives their families comfort.  You know, money. 

All while vaxxed people spread the virus.  Right?  Seems everyone who is vaxxed just goes around and doesn't give a shit, just like the guy in the gym above.  Being vaxxed gives you the right to go about and spread it all you want. 

While we are at it, let's close down small business's for not complying.  Let's not let people get food because they are unvaxxed.  Let's treat them like second hand citizens. 

The divide between the vaxxed and unvaxxed grows greater every day.  85% of the nation is vaxxed.  Somehow, 15% of the people that are unvaxxed are causing such horrible amounts of deaths that the hospitals are over run?  OH, then let's put the unvaxxed outside and only accept vaxxed people first.  Let the unvaxxed die on the door step.  Although it appears very few are actually dying from xicron.  I forgot I'm supposed to be politically correct and call it omicron since calling it by it's numerical number would insinuate that the ruler of china had something to do with it. 

[torredcuda]

"People who refuse to get vaccinated impose a burden on (health care) personnel and an important financial burden on the majority of Quebecers."
The data shows  it`s not just the unvaccinated filling up  hospitals and in some cases there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated in ICUs  so he`s lying. I guess next is a fat tax, an alcoholic tax, an out of shape tax, a smoker tax, a sports tax and so on as they all make people sick/injured and tie up hospital beds?

"and in some cases there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated in ICUs"

In no cases does it show this. There isn't a single medical facility in the US or Canada that has more vaccinated people than unvaccinated in the ICU from covid.

Here's my proof: I have family members working in ICUs. From their firsthand experience, 99% of the dead and soon-to-be, are unvaccinated. From their experience, the vaccinated that have died, have had serious preexisting medical conditions - cancer, smokers, heart disease, severe obesity.

You want to twist statistics? I bet right now in NYC there is an ICU filled up with all the survivors of the apartment fire that killed 17 people over the weekend. Are you going to use that particular ICU as a statistic for your argument?

I'm fully vaccinated. Did it the soonest I could last year and got boosted in the Fall. I just got a pos result on 1/10/22 for test I took on 1/7, which was the soonest date I could get a PCR test here. I took the test because I had a sore throat for a single day on 12/30/2021. I was at the gym earlier that week and some sketchy guy was coughing on everyone and everything there, so I figured after I had the sore throat I should get tested, just in case. (And I later learned he had an active case of covid and just didn't care)

So there is my first hand experience with being vaccinated and getting covid: a sore throat for 12 hours. No temp, no other symptoms at all. I've been staying home since I got the pos results so I dont accidentally spread to other people and family members (all of whom are vaxed). Fifth day past the pos test is today, so tomorrow I get to go out again.

I'm old and from a generation of people who got vaccinated not just for themselves but in order to establish a herd immunity so the disease has no one left to infect and mutate into new versions. I have lots of family members in the medical field. I have personal experience of what can happen when you dont get vaccinated: my younger brother and sister (twins) were born during the German Measles/Rubella epidemic of the early 1960's. When my mom went to go to one of her prenatal doctor's appointment, the babysitter they hired to watch me had a case of Rubella and didn't bother to tell my parents. She spread it to my mother in the early days of her pregnancy with the twins. They were both born with major hearing defects (a common result of in-utero infection). They were lucky though, most kids were miscarried, or still-born full term, or born without limbs from a single exposure by the mother. So a year later when the vaccine was developed, it was made mandatory in order for a kid to attend school. EVERYONE got it and Rubella was removed from the major threat list to children. That's why kids still get it as a basic childhood vaccination.  And that vaccine was developed faster than the ones that everyone are screaming about now.

Yes you do have a choice: Dont get vaccinated for covid if you don't want to. But if you do wind up in an ER/ICU be prepared for a $500,000+ medical bill that will pretty much bankrupt you and/or your spouse/family, even if you do survive the disease and the resulting permanent damage it does to your body.

You have a choice...and so do the people that have to deal with you in the world. The doctors, the hospitals, the medical insurance companies.

Be prepared for insurance companies to start massively increasing the deductibles for unvaccinated, raising premiums, or even dropping coverage altogether for those without vaccination. It's their choice, too as private businesses.

You, like Fauci and many more neglected to mention natural immunity which millions have and is as good or better than vaccine immunity in many cases. We also have had other vaccines for measles etc. around for a long time and they have been proven safe, the covid vaccines were rushed into emergency use without the normal years of trials and no one knows the long term effects. No amount of shaming, corecion, mandating will make me put something into my body I am not 100% comfortable with. My wife, 7 yr old son and myself all had covid and are just fine - no hospitalization, no ICU, I didn`t even bother to go get tested so ZERO cost and burden on the health care system just like the other 99% of the population.

[njsteve]

Gotta love the old "no one knows the long term effects" argument.

Well, the longterm effect is that you're still here, long term, alive. And therefore you can eventually be studied. Versus the long term effects for someone who dies of a preventable disease, now is....long term death.

That's confirmation bias at its basic form. Like the old days when someone would say "I don't wear seat belts because I survived a car crash where I was thrown from the vehicle and I survived because the car caught fire on impact and I would have died if I was still inside it." 

Well, did you interview the 9,999 other people who were thrown from their car and died as a result? No, because they weren't around to interview, therefore you get a biased result from a 1 in 9,999 positive statistic.


And yes natural immunity is a wonderful thing. But it wanes over time and puts you at risk to get the disease again when your natural immunity is at its reduced level. That is also why there are boosters for vaccines to reestablish a strong immune response level. Natural immunity doesn't allow for a booster, other than catching it again, quite possibly as a new, deadlier variant and then allowing more and more new mutations to grow in more and more people.

You dont want the vaccine, Fine, don't get it. I fully support anyone's right to make their own choice.

But don't fault other people, and blame the businesses small and large, that make decisions based on the choice you make. They have the same right to make choices that you have.

[njsteve]

So they are lying? 
In ICU
Unvaccinated cases  138
Partially vaccinated cases  14
Fully vaccinated cases  158

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#vaccine-status-data
[/quote]

No, you're not fully interpreting all the stats on your own page.


For example:
Jan 11, 2021
The data points show the daily number of adult ICU beds occupied (both COVID-related and non-COVID-related) and the number of available adult ICU beds:
Adult ICU beds available: 522
Adults in ICU due to Non Covid-19 reasons: 1353
Adults in ICU due to Covid-19: 468

The massive number of admissions in the stats you reference show that they are for non-covid related admissions.

They now test everyone coming in. So you have a significant number of fully vaccinated, Positive albeit, non-symptomatic people in the hospital regardless of what they are there for, including the intensive care unit and regular admissions. They are not breaking it down into who is there specifically for Covid-19 and who is there for any other reason, including scheduled elective surgery.

They are simply saying this is the number of people in our hospitals who have tested positive for Covid-19 and here are the numbers broken down for both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

If a vaccinated person was in a car accident and arrived at the ICU and happened to test positive but had zero symptoms, they are still in the same "Positive/Vaccinated" admission category as someone who is in the system for full-blown covid and has the same status.

There is no breakdown of diagnosis: for example, Motor vehicle accident/broken bones/heart attacks/strokes/cosmetic breast enhancement surgery/Covid-19 pneumonia.

[cuda hunter]

kinda funny satire.  If ya have 4 minutes.