E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Technical Shop => Wheels, Tires, Brakes, Suspension & Steering => Topic started by: Shane Kelley on May 11, 2018, 07:58:50 AM

Title: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 11, 2018, 07:58:50 AM
My motor always leaned to the passenger side just a little. I suspected my K Member was possibly tweaked from being wrecked. I was already tired of the manual steering. Real hassle in parking lots and just to sloppy for my taste. So I decided to go with the new Borgeson quick ratio power steering conversion and swap out the K member and LCA's while I was at it. Going with the Pro Forged T/A idler and pitman arm also. I have to say I'm really impressed with the QA1 stuff. Well built and fit was excellent. One big bonus I hadn't thought about was how much more room I have under the motor. The oil pan can literally come straight down with nothing in the way. I have the column modified but not installed yet. Everything else is buttoned up. Pics are before installing the pump and hoses. Will post some final pics once everything is complete. Really love how it all looks.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: ledphoot on May 11, 2018, 12:27:24 PM
That looks sweet, can't wait to hear if it made much difference in the handling. Looks like you already had the Hotchkiss setup on your ride.

I went with the full QA1 setup and ridetech shocks for the front. Not sure what I am going to do in the back yet, maybe Hotchkiss leafs, maybe some kind of composite leaf...

Thanks for the pics, I will be bolting mine in soon :)

Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: moparcar on May 12, 2018, 07:37:54 AM
That looks great! I love the matching color to the Hotchkis items? Did you re-powdercoat it or just spray it? Do you recall the color to match the Hotchkis gold?

Thanks-Wes
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Archialfa on May 12, 2018, 10:15:47 AM
Do you have front sway bars? I am thinking of getting QA1 k member, but I think I've read somewhere that it's not compatible with Hotchkis sway bar. Is that true?


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Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Chryco Psycho on May 12, 2018, 10:20:28 AM
looks great !
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: ledphoot on May 12, 2018, 10:22:13 AM
Quote from: Archialfa on May 12, 2018, 10:15:47 AM
Do you have front sway bars? I am thinking of getting QA1 k member, but I think I've read somewhere that it's not compatible with Hotchkis sway bar. Is that true?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could be wrong, but that looks like the Hotchkiss Swaybar attached to the QA1 K-Member in his photos... Looks like he had the Hotchkiss setup prior to the QA1 K-Member / Lower Control Arms...

I purchased the complete QA1 setup minus their shocks, Ridetech Shocks, Borgenson steering box, new tie rods / idler arm and 1.14 Torsion Bars to address the 45 year old suspension in the Cuda. Hoping the QA1 sway bar is comparable to Hotchkiss' bar.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 12, 2018, 05:40:15 PM
Just like ledphoot said. I had the Hotchkis stuff prior to installing the QA1 K member and LCA's. No issues what so ever. Everything bolted up and mated just fine.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: GoodysGotaCuda on May 12, 2018, 05:48:44 PM
It all looks very nice.

I know the Hotchkis UCAs are intended to correct some bump steer on a factory design, given you have gone away from that, you may want to measure bump steer and see if you've induced any. :alan2cents:
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: 71-440 on May 12, 2018, 05:53:42 PM
That's a really nice setup! :stayinlane:

Can't wait to hear how much of a difference it makes.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Cuda70-74 on May 13, 2018, 04:53:27 AM
Nice set up I also got the same K member
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: moparcar on May 13, 2018, 06:50:12 AM
Quote from: GoodysGotaCuda on May 12, 2018, 05:48:44 PM
It all looks very nice.

I know the Hotchkis UCAs are intended to correct some bump steer on a factory design, given you have gone away from that, you may want to measure bump steer and see if you've induced any. :alan2cents:

@GoodysGotaCuda (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/goodysgotacuda_66) Since it's just the K and LCAs where would the change in bump steer occur from stock? I'm assuming the geometry/pivot points, etc. with the QA1 K and LCAs are the same as factory as they don't mention any geometry change or correction in their description? If you know a difference I'd love to know since this is the exact direction I'm planning on going also. I always appreciate your knowledge (and you are correct if they changed something)!

Wes
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: HP2 on May 13, 2018, 09:14:58 AM
Hotchkis upper control arms are marketed as "geometry correcting".  From their site the exact quote is "specifically designed to correct the excessive caster gain and create the proper negative camber curve this kit features a Hotchkis exclusive Laser Cut Pick Up Point Relocation Bracket and TIG-welded Light Weight A-Arms which are fully gusseted for strength and feature High Articulation Rod Ends for maximum adjustability. "

They also sell an adjustable tie rod kits, which they call steering rod kits, which are designed to work in concert with their upper arms to  provide  overall geometric improvements. The quote from this part states "Benefits: Corrects Bump Steer in Conjunction with Upper A-Arm. "  If you look at the mounting point of the  tie rod ends, there is a spacer incorporated into the outer end, which lowers the pivot point of that end, a primary contributor to  the bump steer issue.


The QA1 k-frame and lower control arms primary design consideration was  to improve rigidity over stock. After that were loss of weight. No geometric improves were necessary, although, depending on where the located everything, they could have built a couple of degrees of caster into them, but I've never seen any mention of them doing this.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 13, 2018, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: MoparCar on May 13, 2018, 06:50:12 AM
Quote from: GoodysGotaCuda on May 12, 2018, 05:48:44 PM
It all looks very nice.

I know the Hotchkis UCAs are intended to correct some bump steer on a factory design, given you have gone away from that, you may want to measure bump steer and see if you've induced any. :alan2cents:

@GoodysGotaCuda (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/goodysgotacuda_66) Since it's just the K and LCAs where would the change in bump steer occur from stock? I'm assuming the geometry/pivot points, etc. with the QA1 K and LCAs are the same as factory as they don't mention any geometry change or correction in their description? If you know a difference I'd love to know since this is the exact direction I'm planning on going also. I always appreciate your knowledge (and you are correct if they changed something)!

Wes
I assumed the same thing. Doesn't mean I'm right. I figured it as a direct replacement.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 14, 2018, 09:59:17 AM
Got the pump, lines and steering coupler installed from the Borgeson set up. I did powder coat the bracket. Haven't driven the car yet other than down the driveway. But I can tell you I love that power steering after having manual on the car. You will notice the bracket for the pump is completely different from the factory style. At first look I thought it wouldn't be sturdy enough with just one bracket on the rear of the pump. But it's solid as a rock! No movement or flexing at all.

Fist impressions on how the steering feels and responds are excellent.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: moparcar on May 15, 2018, 02:47:38 AM
@Shane Kelley (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/shane-kelley_440) Everything looks great! Did you powdercoat or scuff and spray the QA1 K and LCAs to match the Hotchkis color? Color?

Thanks, Wes
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 15, 2018, 03:18:20 AM
thanks.  Yes I scuffed and painted the QA1 parts. Did the same treatment to my Magnum Force sub frame connectors. I used base coat with a mat clear over it. I use Sikkens so unless you have a jobber that sells that my Formula won't work. I will look and see if I can match it to a factory color code. Color turned out to me a excellent match. I like the look a lot better than the gloss black.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: moparcar on May 15, 2018, 11:17:55 AM
Thanks for the info. Yeah I really like the matched look. Now it looks like a system.
Wes
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 15, 2018, 12:18:17 PM
Here we go on the paint code. It's a 2009 Chrysler code ZKJ in the redder variation. Below is the formula using Akzo Nobel (Sikkens) water base. Just remember to use a flat clear over it. The shine effects the color shading.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: moparcar on May 15, 2018, 06:00:48 PM
Thanks for posting the color code!
Wes
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Swamp Donkey on May 15, 2018, 09:34:32 PM
   I think I like this set up keeping the torsion bars instead of the RMS alterKtion or the magnumforce coil overs.  But what do I know :dunno: I'm still planning and researching what will work best. QA1 and Hotchkiss sounds like a sweet combination!
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Chryco Psycho on May 16, 2018, 07:41:37 PM
 :iagree:
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: ledphoot on May 26, 2018, 07:34:59 PM
Shane,

What idler arm did you use with your QA1 setup? I got a Moog idler arm and there is too much slop in the fitment to the k-member.  Over 1/4". I pulled the stock idler off my factory k-member and it has a full bushing, much less slop, more like 1/16" of play.  Curious what you used and how it fit.

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: RUNCHARGER on May 26, 2018, 08:19:49 PM
I really prefer torsion bars as well on my cars.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Brads70 on May 27, 2018, 02:48:19 AM
Quote from: ledphoot on May 26, 2018, 07:34:59 PM
Shane,

What idler arm did you use with your QA1 setup? I got a Moog idler arm and there is too much slop in the fitment to the k-member.  Over 1/4". I pulled the stock idler off my factory k-member and it has a full bushing, much less slop, more like 1/16" of play.  Curious what you used and how it fit.

Thanks!!!

Shim it with washers.  :bradsthumb:
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 27, 2018, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: Brads70 on May 27, 2018, 02:48:19 AM
Quote from: ledphoot on May 26, 2018, 07:34:59 PM
Shane,

What idler arm did you use with your QA1 setup? I got a Moog idler arm and there is too much slop in the fitment to the k-member.  Over 1/4". I pulled the stock idler off my factory k-member and it has a full bushing, much less slop, more like 1/16" of play.  Curious what you used and how it fit.

Thanks!!!
Yep. What he said.
But I am using Proforge T/A idler and Pittman arms.

Shim it with washers.  :bradsthumb:
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: ledphoot on May 27, 2018, 05:15:36 PM
I ordered the firm feel idler arm bearing kit. Looks like it will address everything that needs addressing.

Interestingly I stumbled on an old TRW idler arm and it looks just like the one I pulled off my factory K-Member.

Not horribly impressed with these moog pieces. Moog used to be the good stuff
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: ledphoot on June 25, 2018, 12:23:04 PM
Quick question... How did you get that sway bar bolt to start?? The 7.5" long sway bar bolt doesn't seem to be long enough to start the nut on it. I put an 8" grade-8 bolt through it and that worked.. Just curious how you accomplished this with the supplied bolt.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on June 26, 2018, 10:48:12 AM
 :slapme5: :takemymoney:
Quote from: ledphoot on June 25, 2018, 12:23:04 PM
Quick question... How did you get that sway bar bolt to start?? The 7.5" long sway bar bolt doesn't seem to be long enough to start the nut on it. I put an 8" grade-8 bolt through it and that worked.. Just curious how you accomplished this with the supplied bolt.
I used whatever came with the Hotchkis sway bar. Didn't notice any issue. :thinking:
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: ledphoot on June 26, 2018, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: Shane Kelley on June 26, 2018, 10:48:12 AM
:slapme5: :takemymoney:
Quote from: ledphoot on June 25, 2018, 12:23:04 PM
Quick question... How did you get that sway bar bolt to start?? The 7.5" long sway bar bolt doesn't seem to be long enough to start the nut on it. I put an 8" grade-8 bolt through it and that worked.. Just curious how you accomplished this with the supplied bolt.
I used whatever came with the Hotchkis sway bar. Didn't notice any issue. :thinking:

The one that came with the QA1 sway bar didn't leave any room to start the nut. The tabs on the swaybar are very thick. I checked my hotchkiss bar on the Challenger and it's tapered a little more.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: dodj on November 23, 2018, 05:33:43 AM
@Shane Kelley (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/shane-kelley_440)
Looking at replacing my K with the QA1 piece. Now that you have had it on your car and driving for the summer season, is there anything you don't like about it?
Thanks
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on November 23, 2018, 06:51:05 AM
Quote from: dodj on November 23, 2018, 05:33:43 AM
@Shane Kelley (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/shane-kelley_440)
Looking at replacing my K with the QA1 piece. Now that you have had it on your car and driving for the summer season, is there anything you don't like about it?
Thanks
Nope!  Love everything about it. The best thing I like is something I never thought about. All the room  to access everything from under neat.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: dodj on November 23, 2018, 08:35:23 AM
Thanks for the feedback  :drinkingbud:
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: 7212Mopar on December 07, 2018, 07:45:24 AM
I use the k frame when jacking up the front. Can you still do that with the QA1?
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on December 18, 2018, 06:05:26 AM
Quote from: 7212Mopar on December 07, 2018, 07:45:24 AM
I use the k frame when jacking up the front. Can you still do that with the QA1?
I put a 24" wide 2x6 on my jack to spread out the pressure on the front  K member bar.  So not to put a lot of pressure right in the middle of the bar.
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: dodj on May 04, 2020, 09:14:08 AM
@Shane Kelley (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/shane-kelley_440)
Just looking at your pics, the sway bar looks to be horizontal with your suspension hanging. How does your sway bar line up with the car sitting on it's wheels?
Asking because mine has a very pronounced upward angle. I think the sway bar needs to be mounted above the k-member not underneath?
The QA1 bracket for the sway bay works best for mounting underneath but I think the sway bar ends up too low.
The sway bar ends are supposed to be horizontal when the car is at rest, correct?
Pic shows how mine is at the moment - not all tightened up but you get the idea.
I could use longer end link bolts but that puts them pretty low?
Title: Re: QA1 K Member Install
Post by: Shane Kelley on May 04, 2020, 09:37:40 AM
I agree with you on putting the sway bar on top the K member. That's something I have looked over and planned on doing but just haven't got around to it yet. The sway bar below definitely can cause some ground clearance issues on roads with a big crown. My car sits pretty low so I scrape on those if I'm not careful and sometimes when I am careful. I did use a longer link with my bar for a better angle that wasn't so steep.

To move the sway bar above the K we are going to need a solid spacer so the bar will clear the K member and probably a short link like yours. It's on my to do list.