E-Bodies.org Cuda Challenger Forum

Thanks to Tavis King  :worship: (member: cataclysm80) for many of these and anyone else who made them and contributed.  Here is the best and most thorough detailed photos of hole locations on an E-Body!  Don't let all these drawings scare you.  I've done this a few times and yes these drawings can look confusing.   :D  But it's easy if you take it one step at a time and don't hurry.  And you have ALL these referance photos to refer to in case you need help!   Thanks to everyone who made these and helped out.

The Gray Primer car is a 1970 Challenger with a Scheduled Production Date of August 26th, 1969

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3526;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3534;image)

Some of the Defogger Motor holes in this picture are only used for the adapter which mounts the defogger with dual rear speakers.
Normally, the Defogger just mounts with the same holes that would be used for the speaker.

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3536;image)

The antenna location shown is for Trans Am cars.   Some cars have optional body side molding, and that isn't shown here.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3544;image)

Emissions changed several times over the course of E body production, and California frequently had stricter emissions standards.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3564;image)

Bench Seat cars don't have the inner reinforcements for Bucket Seats under the floor.
Manual Transmission cars will have a larger hole in the tunnel, with a special piece installed to reshape the tunnel.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3568;image)

The red arrows indicate holes which did not contain clips when I got this car, but clips could be installed there, and the factory may have not been particular about which holes received the clips.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3570;image)

Early build cars have a body plug where the Trans Am exhaust tip hanger should be. The provision for the Trans Am exhaust tip hanger was added around the time that the Trans Am cars were built.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3578;image)

This is the driver's side of the car.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3580;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3588;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3590;image)

Non-Air Conditioned cars won't have an AC temperature control valve, and also won't have an AC dryer. Early build 1970 cars have a dimple in the sheet metal for the California fuel vapor line clip.  Part way through the year, the inner fender was reshaped in this area to better accommodate the California emissions and to prepare for 1971 emissions.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3598;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3600;image)

Apparently I wasn't done with this one yet because the red arrows aren't labeled.

I think #2 & #3 are each for a fender support bracket. #6 is where the radiator overflow hose passes through. If anyone knows what these red arrow holes are for, please let me know. The radiator support sheet metal by the washer jar is different for 22 inch radiator cars. The hole which is pictured for wiring ground is exclusive to very early build cars.  They used a bolt and nut here.  All other cars have a threaded insert installed on this panel for the ground bolt. 
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3602;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3604;image)

Looks like I could use some assistance with a few labels in this picture also. It's probably Manual Transmission stuff (need item names), and maybe a Brake Proportioning Valve? In later years, the inner fender was reshaped to accommodate a different battery hold down design.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3606;image)

In later years, the bumper bracket was held to the frame rail by 3 bolts instead of 2 bolts.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3608;image)

If I remember correctly, cars with an overhead console had an extra door jamb switch here for the Door Ajar light.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3614;image)

On 1970 cars, the side glass weatherstripping attaches with clips that fit into oval holes. On later years, the side glass weatherstripping attached with screws in simple round holes.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3616;image)

Looking down into the quarter window area.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3618;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3620;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3622;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3626;image)

Console shifted automatic transmission pictured. Console shifted manual transmission will be different. Column shifted automatic transmission will be different
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3628;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3630;image)

The trunk lid torsion rods can be set to a different position, depending on how heavy of an item you have mounted to the trunk lid. Nothing, Luggage Rack, Wing Spoiler,Trans Am Spoiler
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3632;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3634;image)

Early 1970 trunk lids have provisions for a luggage rack, but not for any spoilers. The Go Wing became available around January, and the trunk lids changed to have provisions for mounting it. The Trans Am spoiler became available around March, and the trunk lid changed again.  The pictured trunk lid is an early trunk lid, but the cutouts for the T/A spoiler have been added.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3636;image)

The hood bumpers located in the rear corners of the hood are small round rubber bumpers attached with a single screw. They are very hard to find.
(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3638;image)

More hole locations (Thanks Alan, HP Cuda, Screamindriver, Topcat and Brad!):

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=4424;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=303.0;attach=3596;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=772;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=779;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1211;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1216;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1218;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1219;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1432;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1239;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1295;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1297;image)

(https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70.0;attach=1298;image)


Thanks @HP_Cuda (http://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=profile;u=20)  for the wing photo!

Quote from: cataclysm80 on January 18, 2017, 12:37:09 AM
:)   I was surprised to see a few of those here.   I haven't posted some of those anywhere in years.
I did pretty much the whole car like that.    Maybe I'll post the others sometime.

Tavis

Please do...those are pretty awesome  :takepicture:

WOW!! this thread is a phenomenal piece of reference for assembly/hole identification.

One quick note, and please correct me if I'm wrong...on picture nine showing the inside rear, it looks like one of the headliner bow arrows points to a hole used to attach the sail panel.  And one of the factory hole arrows points to a headliner bow hole.

Again, awesome piece of reference.  Thanks Tavis and others!  :cheers:

Tom

Isn't the roadlamp hole a different location on 71's?

I recall that before from Alan.

Yes the road lamp wire hole moves around from year to year as does the switch location :alan2cents:

Quote from: anlauto on January 18, 2017, 05:09:38 AM
Please do...those are pretty awesome  :takepicture:

Thanks Alan!
It's good to see you here too.  It's been a few years since I've done much with cars, but I'm working on a few again now.
So far I'm really liking how easy it is to upload pics onto this forum.

Tav

The car in gray primer is a 1970 Challenger.

Sometimes holes do move from year to year, or between models.

A wealth of information. Great stuff Thanks!  :clapping:

Awesome, thanks guys! :twothumbsup:

Im getting close to strip my first restoration down for media blasting.  This was the scariest page I have ever opened online.  Thanks Cuda Cody, I may have a nightmare tonight.   :whiteflag:  But thanks, real good info

Baby steps.     :bigthumb:   Don't over think it.  Take lots of photos when you take the car apart, bag and LABEL everything really well.  If you don't know what it is take a photo of it installed, remove it, put in a bag and put the photo number on the bag.  Then you'll always know where it went and what it looked like installed.  There's NOTHING on your car that someone here or someone on our facebook page doesn't know where it goes. 

Quote from: nsmall on January 20, 2017, 09:25:41 PM
Im getting close to strip my first restoration down for media blasting.  This was the scariest page I have ever opened online.  Thanks Cuda Cody, I may have a nightmare tonight.   :whiteflag:  But thanks, real good info

How about some Go Wing installation info!

EDIT by Cuda Cody:  Great photo!  Moved photo to top of thread area!!!

Another thought I had for "pinned" topics like this "Hole Location" picture thread....

I thought, maybe quarterly, I moderator could go through and remove all the replies that don't include a picture. That way the thread gets cleaned up and only includes the great detailed pictures that people are posting. People should try at the very least to describe their own photos as to what they are of.  :alan2cents:
...and you wouldn't have to shuffle through pages of people's comments or requests.

Any thoughts @Cuda Cody (http://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1)

Quote from: fc7cuda on January 18, 2017, 05:33:24 AM
One quick note, and please correct me if I'm wrong...on picture nine showing the inside rear, it looks like one of the headliner bow arrows points to a hole used to attach the sail panel.  And one of the factory hole arrows points to a headliner bow hole.

Here's a close up pic that may help to see it better.
If you still think something might be labeled wrong, try to let me know which holes you're talking about.  I may be able to double check on the car.

Also, if anyone else sees anything that they think needs fixed, please let me know. 
(I already saw the typo on "headlinger".)

Quote from: anlauto on January 24, 2017, 04:57:15 AM
People should try at the very least to describe their own photos as to what they are of.  :alan2cents:
@Cuda Cody (http://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1)

Quote from: Brads70 on January 24, 2017, 05:00:30 AM
maybe just move the pictures to the front pages. That would serve the same purpose?  :dunno:

I agree that it may be important at least for some pictures, to have a description of what they are.
If the pics get moved, the description of the pic needs to go with it so that people will have the intended information.

I'm about to post several more pics of the primer gray 1970 Challenger.
If they get moved to the top, I'm thinking it would be nice to keep them together since it's all the same car. (including the ones already posted)
Having them all together at the top of the thread will cover a lot of ground regarding hole locations.
A lot of the info in these pics will apply to all E bodies, but in cases where there are differences, it will be useful to know that this car is a 1970 Challenger with a Scheduled Production Date of August 26th, 1969. (early build)

Here we go...

In later years, the cowl vent screens required additional holes for the plastic clips which held them on.

Convertibles have additional shiny trim around the windshield and on the A pillar, which requires some additional mounting holes.

Standing by to move them to the top with any comments want with them.   :yessir:

Some of the Defogger Motor holes in this picture are only used for the adapter which mounts the defogger with dual rear speakers.
Normally, the Defogger just mounts with the same holes that would be used for the speaker.

Looks like I didn't label a tail panel picture because I had lights in the holes for test fitting that day.
Here's another pic of a 1970 Challenger tail panel.
It should have had labeled...
Trunk Lock
Quarter Panel Tail Trim (left & right)
Bumper Brackets
Valance Brackets (1970 is different from later years)
Tail Panel to Bumper Filler Panel (1970 is different from later years)
Tail Light (left & right) (1970 is different from later years)
Reverse Light (1970 is different from later years)

The antenna location shown is for Trans Am cars.   

Some cars have optional body side molding, and that isn't shown here.

Emissions changed several times over the course of E body production, and California frequently had stricter emissions standards.

Looks like this is another one I didn't get around to labeling.
Some of the things that should be labeled are...
Single Exhaust Bracket (welded on)
Dual Exhaust Bracket (bolted on)
Parking Brake Stuff (1970 is different from later years)
Shocks
Wheel Opening Moldings
Fuel Tank Vent
Car Shipping Brackets (left & right) (bolted to frame rails to fasten car to semi truck)
Fuel Filler Tube
Fuel Tank Straps
Fuel Sending Unit Wire
Leaf Spring Shackles
Tag Light Wire

Seat Belt Bolts
Body Plugs

Bench Seat cars don't have the inner reinforcements for Bucket Seats under the floor.
Manual Transmission cars will have a larger hole in the tunnel, with a special piece installed to reshape the tunnel.

The red arrows indicate holes which did not contain clips when I got this car, but clips could be installed there, and the factory may have not been particular about which holes received the clips.

Early build cars have a body plug where the Trans Am exhaust tip hanger should be.
The provision for the Trans Am exhaust tip hanger was added around the time that the Trans Am cars were built.

This is the driver's side of the car.

I hadn't realized there were so many pics not labeled yet.  I guess I didn't finish.

Radiator Overflow Hose
K Frame Bolts
Etc.

.

This is an Air Conditioning firewall.  A Non-Air Conditioned car will have a different blower motor & heater core opening, and not have an evaporator opening.
On some 1970 cars, the AC temperature control cable passed through the AC vacuum grommet.
I think this car has had the holes for the plastic push pins which hold the interior fiberglass insulation welded shut to reduce the potential for water leaks, so those holes aren't pictured.

Dash frame..

Non-Air Conditioned cars won't have an AC temperature control valve, and also won't have an AC dryer.
Early build 1970 cars have a dimple in the sheet metal for the California fuel vapor line clip.  Part way through the year, the inner fender was reshaped in this area to better accommodate the California emissions and to prepare for 1971 emissions.

..

Apparently I wasn't done with this one yet because the red arrows aren't labeled.

I think #2 & #3 are each for a fender support bracket.
#6 is where the radiator overflow hose passes through.
If anyone knows what these red arrow holes are for, please let me know.

The radiator support sheet metal by the washer jar is different for 22 inch radiator cars.
The hole which is pictured for wiring ground is exclusive to very early build cars.  They used a bolt and nut here.  All other cars have a threaded insert installed on this panel for the ground bolt. 

...

Looks like I could use some assistance with a few labels in this picture also.

It's probably Manual Transmission stuff (need item names), and maybe a Brake Proportioning Valve?

In later years, the inner fender was reshaped to accommodate a different battery hold down design.

In later years, the bumper bracket was held to the frame rail by 3 bolts instead of 2 bolts.

This picture was intended to label the sill plate screws and door jamb switch.

This picture should probably have labeled the...
Windshield Defogger Stud
AC / Heater Box Stud
Foot Mounted Windshield Squirter
Etc.

If I remember correctly, cars with an overhead console had an extra door jamb switch here for the Door Ajar light.

On 1970 cars, the side glass weatherstripping attaches with clips that fit into oval holes.
On later years, the side glass weatherstripping attached with screws in simple round holes.

Looking down into the quarter window area.

....

.....

Rear Seat
Seat Belts
Dual Exhaust Bracket
Body Plugs
And the wiring clips which hold the wiring for Power Windows, Defogger, & Rear Speakers.

......

Console shifted automatic transmission pictured
Console shifted manual transmission will be different
Column shifted automatic transmission will be different

.......

The trunk lid torsion rods can be set to a different position, depending on how heavy of an item you have mounted to the trunk lid.
Nothing
Luggage Rack
Wing Spoiler
Trans Am Spoiler

.......

Early 1970 trunk lids have provisions for a luggage rack, but not for any spoilers.
The Go Wing became available around January, and the trunk lids changed to have provisions for mounting it.
The Trans Am spoiler became available around March, and the trunk lid changed again.

The pictured trunk lid is an early trunk lid, but the cutouts for the T/A spoiler have been added.

The hood bumpers located in the rear corners of the hood are small round rubber bumpers attached with a single screw.
They are very hard to find.

Time for bed, I'll have to post more later.

@cataclysm80 (http://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=profile;u=127)  you are amazing!!!!   :worship:  Fantastic job labeling everything.   :1place: :1place: :1place: :1place: :1place: :1place: :1place:

Yes, that is the Brake Proportioning mounting holes above the splash shield.   :alan2cents:

Quote from: cataclysm80 on January 26, 2017, 08:33:43 PM
Looks like I could use some assistance with a few labels in this picture also.

It's probably Manual Transmission stuff (need item names), and maybe a Brake Proportioning Valve?

In later years, the inner fender was reshaped to accommodate a different battery hold down design.

Does anyone have a picture for the 71 Hemi choke handle location?

It should be under the dash right above the parking brake.

When I mounted mine, it's at a tilt pointing towards the driver.
Is that correct?

Wish I had a 71 Hemi Cuda to check.  I know where there is one and I really want to buy it, but he's not selling and I don't have enough to buy it!   :bigmoney:   If someone can't help you, I can ask him to take a photo of it.

Quote from: anlauto on January 18, 2017, 07:39:25 AM
Yes the road lamp wire hole moves around from year to year as does the switch location :alan2cents:

@anlauto (http://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?action=profile;u=19)

Can you find that picture again and post it here?     :cheers:

Are you using an iPhone or iPad?  We've seen that happen in the past where the photo looks good on your screen as it auto levels it to look fine on your screen.  but when it saves it the photo is not saved with what you see as top being top.  Only 1 way is top and that's why it posts them in the original format.  Try taking 4 photos while turning the camera so all 4 sides of the camera up on top.  You'll see only one of the photos will post correctly.

Quote from: headejm on February 20, 2017, 11:33:13 AM
Not sure why my pictures aren't posting right side up? Tried two different ways.  :notsure:

Are these the hole you are talking about (see the factory dimples)?

Yes. The two lower holes in question. The upper hole i believe is for the temperature control cable.

Must be something with AC?  All I'm seeing is dimples on my firewalls, not hole.  But they are dimpled so the factory knows where the holes need to go if they need to add them.  So you must be right about them being AC.   :notsure:

Quote from: headejm on February 20, 2017, 12:11:43 PM
Yes. The two lower holes in question. The upper hole i believe is for the temperature control cable.

I don't recall removing anything from those two holes. It would have needed to be removed from the inside since the two holes are basically behind the brake booster and mostly inaccessible.

Those two holes are factory :alan2cents:

Quote from: Cuda Cody on February 20, 2017, 11:51:29 AM
Are these the hole you are talking about (see the factory dimples)?

Those dimples are for a clutch bracket and a clutch safety switch.

@headejm (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/headejm_14)   someone has installed a factory manual transmission into your car at some point.

BINGO!  Just double checked 4 firewalls on original 4 -speed cars and they all have those holes.  Nice job @cataclysm80 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cataclysm80_127)    :clapping:

Quote from: cataclysm80 on February 20, 2017, 10:28:17 PM

Quote from: Cuda Cody on February 20, 2017, 11:51:29 AM
Are these the hole you are talking about (see the factory dimples)?

Those dimples are for a clutch bracket and a clutch safety switch.

That AC cable hole could also have been filled with an insulation pin.

Some 1970 cars routed the AC cable through the firewall on the passenger side under the AC box.

Thanks @cataclysm80 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cataclysm80_127) for the clarification on the photo. You can see from the photo that there is no sign that a clutch bracket or clutch safety switch was ever installed. My AC cable was routed through the upper clutch bracket hole. Another Mopar mystery.  :notsure:

Quote from: soundcontrol on February 21, 2017, 03:11:17 AM
I got the same holes in my -73, bought it as a shell so I don't know what was there. Manual car though.
(Nice patchwork ! ...and, yes, I'm replacing the whole firewall and cowl  :) )

Save as much of your original cowl as you can.  Your body numbers are stamped on that. 
It looks a little shady if a small rectangle containing the numbers has been moved onto your new cowl, but it looks more like a repair if a big piece of the cowl is original.

(same goes for any radiator support work)

Quote from: headejm on February 21, 2017, 12:11:49 AM
Do you think the factory could have punched the holes by mistake? Another Mopar mystery.  :notsure:

Anything is possible. 
If I were restoring the car, I'd weld those holes up, maybe with a little extra weld under the hood to replicate the factory dimple.
I suppose another option would be to section in a piece, but that's more hassle.
Third option would be to put it back the way it was, but I don't like leaks. (water, air, temperature, sound)
If you really want to leave the holes there because they're original accidental holes, then maybe cover them with seam sealer or use a bolt or something to plug them.

Incredible work.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Quote from: cataclysm80 on February 22, 2017, 06:57:03 PM

Quote from: soundcontrol on February 21, 2017, 03:11:17 AM
I got the same holes in my -73, bought it as a shell so I don't know what was there. Manual car though.
(Nice patchwork ! ...and, yes, I'm replacing the whole firewall and cowl  :) )

Save as much of your original cowl as you can.  Your body numbers are stamped on that. 
It looks a little shady if a small rectangle containing the numbers has been moved onto your new cowl, but it looks more like a repair if a big piece of the cowl is original.

(same goes for any radiator support work)

Is it a no-no to just restamp the numbers in the cowl? If that is cheating, cutting out a patch seems like the same thing. It's just a G code...

Quote from: soundcontrol on April 07, 2017, 03:14:28 PM
Is it a no-no to just restamp the numbers in the cowl? If that is cheating, cutting out a patch seems like the same thing. It's just a G code...

Engine code is irrelevant to the legality.

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I--CRIMES
CHAPTER 25--COUNTERFEITING AND FORGERY
Sec. 511. Altering or removing motor vehicle identification
numbers
identification number'' means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter
301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49   
(this would include body stampings, engine/transmission stampings, and the door sticker, in addition to the dash VIN)
(a) A person who--
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

(b)
(1) Subsection (a) (^above) does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) (below) (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of subsection (b) are--
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal,
obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for
the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number
for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;
and
(D) a person who owns the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by--
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.

I think that's the part of the USA Federal Law which is relevant to restoration and repair.  I tried not to include the irrelevant parts about vehicle theft, since our goal in this forum is not to steal vehicles.  The bold text was added by me.  Anyone who is performing the procedures described here should probably read the full law.

I don't really see any problems with that for us.  Basically you'd need to check with state law, or the law of the country you reside in.  (this is a worldwide forum).

Barry Washington does a decent job of providing info on this topic.
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudFed.shtml

Basically, it says don't fix a car that isn't broken unless you have permission from the owner.
If you're repairing the car, you're ok.
If you own the car you're ok.
But don't upgrade someone's perfectly functioning engine without their permission, and don't paint over the door sticker without their permission either.  :)


Because there can be a dollar value difference between a numbers matching car and a non-numbers matching car, lawsuits can be filed against someone who sells a restamped car.  It's basically fraud.  The seller is trying to pass the car off as something that it isn't.
This is the case, even if the original numbers are the ones which were restamped, and no numbers were changed, because it can be claimed that the car is less original than it was represented as, and thus worth less money.
Original number stampings can be identified by font, size, spacing, vertical alignment, and depth/crispness of each digit.  The same tool stamps all the numbers, so these features should be identical on each stamp the car has.  Each digit can appear different due to wear.  The first two digits are used for the whole year, so they wear faster (and get replaced more frequently) than the other digits.  It's also a good idea to look for signs of machine work around the stamping.  For example, to restamp an engine block, someone would have to grind down the original numbers first.
Reusing the original stamped numbers is a better move than trying to restamp the numbers.

If somebody can update this hole location photo it may help. Notice right above the gas pedal mount holes the large hole on blue car. That's the reverse light wiring hole on 71 Cuda. build date 10/70

Quote from: cataclysm80 on January 26, 2017, 08:50:27 PM
If I remember correctly, cars with an overhead console had an extra door jamb switch here for the Door Ajar light.

As an addition to post #44:

Here are two pictures with the (broken/not complete and overpainted) door-ajar switch of the SE- and RT/SE-models mentioned by @cataclysm80 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cataclysm80_127):

#1 picture is from the perspective when opening the drivers door

#2 picture is from the perspective from the inside of the door-jamb/b-column, when interiour panel of rear driverside (left) is removed.

Quote from: Shane Kelley on May 09, 2017, 10:05:55 AM
If somebody can update this hole location photo it may help. Notice right above the gas pedal mount holes the large hole on blue car. That's the reverse light wiring hole on 71 Cuda. build date 10/70

Yes, that's correct.  The manual trans reverse light grommet size changed between 70 and 71, and the larger grommet was located differently on the firewall.

On this engineering diagram, Item T  is the Reverse light wiring
There is a note for F series (1970) location, and G series (1971) location.

Where is the location for the shaker  vent cable and measurements?

Shaker Cable hole is about 7/8" to 15/16" (hole measures .928").  It is located in the dimple where the two A/C lines would come thru the firewall.  Looking from the front of the car at the firewall it is the dimple on the left.  Some photos I saved from Scott.

Quote from: Timbbuc2 on August 07, 2017, 06:33:43 AM
Where is the location for the shaker  vent cable and measurements?

Thanks @Cuda Cody (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cuda-cody_1) that's what I needed.

Quote from: ShadeyJones on November 30, 2017, 11:54:32 AM
Does anyone know what each hole is for on the radiator support for a E body

In an early post in this thread, Cody has listed all the holes in the radiator support.

Quote from: ShadeyJones on November 30, 2017, 11:54:32 AM
Does anyone know what each hole is for on the radiator support for a E body

  welcome to the forum  :welcome:

Welcome @ShadeyJones (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/shadeyjones_1156)    :welcome:  The photos above that I had in an earlier page were from @cataclysm80 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cataclysm80_127)   He did a great job identifying the hole.  If you have any more questions about the holes please feel free to post a photo and I'm sure we can help you.   :twothumbsup:

Quote from: Ric on January 28, 2018, 09:28:50 PM
So where is the hole for the road lamp thru the firewall and where does the switch mount on a 71 cuda, didn't see it , only  saw that it was mentioned, thanks

There is a pre drilled hole in the lower dash that the switch goes through. See pic with red circle. The hole doesn't look big enough for the switch but it is.

Wire comes through firewall to the left of master cylinder. There will be a dimple there. See pic for location circled in red.

Thank you... I do have it right. Wasn't sure on a 71

That is the switch location for Road Lamps with a Rallye Dash.
On cars without a Rallye Dash, I've seen the Road Lamp Switch mounted to the bottom of the switch panel.  (left of the gauges and above the heater controls)

Quote from: cataclysm80 on January 31, 2018, 02:24:07 PM
That is the switch location for Road Lamps with a Rallye Dash.
On cars without a Rallye Dash, I've seen the Road Lamp Switch mounted to the bottom of the switch panel.  (left of the gauges and above the heater controls)

:iagree: I have the Standard dash and the Road Lamp switch is mounted on the underside of the H/L , Wiper, Dimmer Panel above the Heater Control switch.

Quote from: Jim AAR on January 31, 2018, 02:27:24 PM

Quote from: cataclysm80 on January 31, 2018, 02:24:07 PM
That is the switch location for Road Lamps with a Rallye Dash.
On cars without a Rallye Dash, I've seen the Road Lamp Switch mounted to the bottom of the switch panel.  (left of the gauges and above the heater controls)

:iagree: I have the Standard dash and the Road Lamp switch is mounted on the underside of the H/L , Wiper, Dimmer Panel above the Heater Control switch.

:iagree:  Yes.  What they said. I thought about it after I posted.  :thinking:

Does anyone have a good diagram showing the location of the Shaker emblems?   From what I understand, they are the same for all emblems?!?   The bubble I have does not appear to have any locating marks and it is hard to tell from pictures what the exact location is.

Welcome @kiphartzell (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/kiphartzell_975)   :welcome:  Thanks for joining us on the forum.  Are you using a factory bubble or a reproduction?

Quote from: kiphartzell on November 04, 2018, 05:07:11 PM
Does anyone have a good diagram showing the location of the Shaker emblems?   From what I understand, they are the same for all emblems?!?   The bubble I have does not appear to have any locating marks and it is hard to tell from pictures what the exact location is.

It is a reproduction.  The one Six Pack Performance sells, though I don't know who is the actual manufacturer of it.   My bubble is already painted on the outside so any potential identifying hole marks are not visible.   I may know someone with an original bubble locally that I might be able to make a tracing paper template from if I can convince them to pop the emblems off.

They aren't the easiest shape to measure either.

I found out that it is a Gene Gregory bubble that I have.   Unfortunately, these have no identifying marks for where to drill the emblem holes.

Have you checked with Gene to see if he has a stencil that you can get from him that has the holes marked? 

I would just eye ball it...nobodies going to know if you're 1/16" off  :dunno:

Isn't this hole for there for the washer tube to go thru before it connects up onto the hood?

Quote from: Topcat on November 07, 2018, 04:14:16 PM
Isn't this hole for there for the washer tube to go thru before it connects up onto the hood?

I don't think the hose goes through there, although I've heard that many times. When you close the hood with the hose going through there it get bent over pretty good restricting the flow of the washer fluid.  :alan2cents: Just my opinion.

Quote from: anlauto on November 07, 2018, 04:35:19 PM

Quote from: Topcat on November 07, 2018, 04:14:16 PM
Isn't this hole for there for the washer tube to go thru before it connects up onto the hood?

I don't think the hose goes through there, although I've heard that many times. When you close the hood with the hose going through there it get bent over pretty good restricting the flow of the washer fluid.  :alan2cents: Just my opinion.

Exactly where I'm going with this.

I had it on the outside and the damn thing kept falling off and looking kinked.

I haven't verified if it's right or not.   :notsure:

But that hole is just screaming..."Stick your tube thru this and it won't hurt anymore"   :yes:

The hose fell off the plastic "T" thingy ? I've never heard that before, do you have the correct size hose?

Like it was getting pulled off when I shut the hood.

I put it thru the hole and up then a little bit of glue to help keep it there.

Wow...I can't envision that...if it doesn't go through the hole, and there's enough slack, there shouldn't be an issue with it just going up and down with the hood... :thinking: that's a real head scratcher..... :pullinghair:

I think part of the tip was missing? Not sure.

On the washer "T"  do you have the large inlet pointing towards the rear of the car or the front of the car ?

Quote from: anlauto on November 07, 2018, 06:40:44 PM
On the washer "T"  do you have the large inlet pointing towards the rear of the car or the front of the car ?

Go look next time and let you know.
Probably this week-end.

Quote from: anlauto on November 07, 2018, 06:40:44 PM
On the washer "T"  do you have the large inlet pointing towards the rear of the car or the front of the car ?

I reversed it  and it's  alright now.

Not sure if I'm supposed to post questions on this thread; if not let me know and I'll delete.  Okay, I just went through 9 pages and couldn't find any close up pictures that show windshield washer nozzles and how and where they attach to the hood at the vents.  I've seen several distant pictures taken from the front of the car but those don't help.  The service manual isn't  any help either.  I know this shouldn't be this hard.  But my car/hood are black and it's difficult to see, even with a flashlight, how or where these darn things attach with the hood on the car.  If anybody has their hood off their car and the nozzles still in place or they can take some pics with your hood on, I'd greatly appreciate a couple of close up pictures.  Ditto, for the washer hose straps that I guess are towards the center of the hood for the passenger side tubing.  Thanks in advance.  :bigthumb:

I just took the stock crashed hood off my 70 Barracuda so I stepped out and took these, sorry about the quality, but its 1 am here and pitch black. Hood is out in my yard. Let me know if you need more or different ones, I can take more tomorrow during daylight.

Soundcontrol.  Wow 1 AM and you went out take pics.   :worship: :unbelievable: :clapping:  Thank you very much.  I think that will work.  I'll let you know if I need additional pics but hope I can figure it from here.   :notsure:

Just thought this pic should be added here.
It shows the holes on the tailpanel above the tailights of a 70 Challenger, used for fastening the aluminum trim panel to an SE car, A63 molding package car, or A91 Western Sport Special car.

This is really cool; thanks to the contributors!  :twothumbsup:

Hi, does anybody have the exact hole locations for the 440 SIXPACK emblem on the hood?

I just found this thread I'm putting my '70 Challenger together. What a great reference.

Welcome @R4sedan (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/r4sedan_6065)  to the best E Body website in the world....we have complied a great amount of reference material, and check out our main page for all sorts of information and decoding etc... :twothumbsup:

Quote from: Rbob on April 07, 2021, 09:50:00 AM
I wish I would have seen this before painting my firewall, I believe I have 3 holes not accounted for.

anybody recognize these circled in red holes?

Unfortunately those are NOT factory holes  :console:

Maybe carefully fill with something like JB Weld and touch up with orange paint  :dunno:

Well it sucks and I should have known better.  I am going to weld them up and repair/prime/repaint as required.

:headbang: :headbang:

That's a tough decision, but the right one  :twothumbsup:

@Rbob (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/rbob_7033)  If that is base coat clear coat it should be easy to blend your repair area's. And keep your heat down.  :yes: