:inlove:Ok, for those of you following along on my other thread, I may dive into a cam change this winter!
I would like some help with picking the cam!
Engine is a 360, compression is 9:1 at best.
Standard bore.
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake / 750 carb
current cam is an old Edelbrock Torker II cam, specs are:
duration at .050 Intake 222 Exhaust 232
intake Lift .447
Exhaust Lift .455
LSA 112
Intake CL 107.
I am running a 727 trans, with a standard lock up converter, but may switch to an A518 overdrive.
Rear gears are currently 3.22.
This is a street crusier, so my goals with the car/cam swap are to make it more streetable. I am not cncerened about a lumpy idle. I would like as much lower end torque as possible, the car will not likely see a track anytime soon.
I have looked at several Lunati Voodoo cams, but not sure which one.
So what would you run????
Jason
Mr. Six Pack. :bigthumb:
No my home country is Panama
I would run the 702 Lunati Voodoo https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/lun-10200702lk
Less duration & overlap , more lift so you gain on both sides
Thanks fellas...still mulling it over.
I am guessing with either of those cams I would need to change the valve springs. I am still running the stockers!
Jason
Yes: And of course mount new valve seals. Snowball!
More snowball; Fitech or Holley EFI You might as well :D
:stop: :rofl:
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on September 01, 2018, 02:23:59 PM
Yes: And of course mount new valve seals. Snowball!
Yeah I was thinking valve seals anyway...not sure they have ever been changed.
Yeah I can see this snowballing really quick...but at the same time, it is probably worth it to make the car more drivable...but no FITECH!!!
@Cudakiller70 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cudakiller70_28) :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:
Right now, I am going to keep it together for the summer and fall.
Jason
Definatley need matching / new springs with the cam
Is guide to retainer clearance okay on that one CP?
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on September 02, 2018, 07:50:13 AM
Is guide to retainer clearance okay on that one CP?
Shouldn't be an issue, the 702 is pretty mild......
I agree the max lift is .490 , usually there is clearance up to .525 lift
Thanks: It's been decades since I ran a cam that small, I thought around .500 was the crossover point. Easy to check anyway.
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on September 01, 2018, 09:45:47 PM
Definatley need matching / new springs with the cam
Lunati sells spring kits to go with their cams. That's what I did. Reasonably priced I thought.
you need to compare both duration @ .050 & advertised lift ,
The VooDoo has much less duration advertised while it has similar specs @ .050 meaning the valve opens much faster + you get more lift at the same duration so lift is basically free & allows more airflow
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on September 20, 2018, 09:09:07 PM
you need to compare both duration @ .050 & advertised lift ,
The VooDoo has much less duration advertised while it has similar specs @ .050 meaning the valve opens much faster + you get more lift at the same duration so lift is basically free & allows more airflow
Thanks man...learn something new every day!!
Jason
Quote from: dodj on September 02, 2018, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on September 01, 2018, 09:45:47 PM
Definatley need matching / new springs with the cam
Lunati sells spring kits to go with their cams. That's what I did. Reasonably priced I thought.
well guys, I think I am going to pull the trigger on this very soon...If I get the Lunati springs...should I get the kits with retainers and locks, or just reuse my stuff.
RIght now the plan is to buy:
new cam and lifters
new timing gears
full engine gasket set including valve seals.
new valve springs.
Any thing else I need to by to replace the valve springs?
jason
Quote from: Cudajason on September 23, 2018, 10:40:31 AM
Quote from: dodj on September 02, 2018, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on September 01, 2018, 09:45:47 PM
Definatley need matching / new springs with the cam
Lunati sells spring kits to go with their cams. That's what I did. Reasonably priced I thought.
well guys, I think I am going to pull the trigger on this very soon...If I get the Lunati springs...should I get the kits with retainers and locks, or just reuse my stuff.
RIght now the plan is to buy:
new cam and lifters
new timing gears
full engine gasket set including valve seals.
new valve springs.
Any thing else I need to by to replace the valve springs?
jason
I'd get the retainers locks kit, one stop shopping and that makes sure it all fits and works together. :alan2cents:
I agree :alan2cents:
Ok Guys, I finally puled trigger on this.
If you are interested in the story behind this swap, check out my somewhat related posts:
https://forum.e-bodies.org/engine-transmission-and-rear-end/4/running-hot/8172/
https://forum.e-bodies.org/engine-transmission-and-rear-end/4/running-hot/8172/
I ended up going with the Lunati Voodoo 702 Cam. When I called Lunati, the tech guy mentioned if you put K after the part number instead of the LK for lifter kit (which is just the cam and lifters) you get a KIT (that what the K stands for!!! :P ) that includes:
cam
lifters
valve springs
locks
retainers
timing set
So basically a nice matched kit.
I also ordered a cam degree kit, and will degree in this cam and proably degree my old cam just to see what it actualy is.
I also ordered the required gaskets for the cam change and a carb rebuild kit. I figure while its off, I should rebuild it as its starting to show its age. I am also going to convert my 4160 carb that uses a plate on the secondaries to a 4150 style that uses the traditionalnl jets in the secondaries.
So basically a bunch of projects for the winter. Hopefully it does not get too cold this winter!
if you need me I'll be.... :wrenching:
Jason
We are here if you need help , some closer than others of course !!
How does that Voodoo cam compared to this hughes cam?
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=search&search=2832&submit=Go&partid=30242
Basically I said "look stock as much as possible", hit the 13s, 3.73 gears, and be very streetable and that what was recommended to me.
I also said I wouldn't mind more choppy lope, but nothing drastic.
I put in a new lunati 704 cam in my 340 this summer. Got the complete kit. Had to have the heads machined to fit the dual springs tho. I was on a deadline to try and get it done by my birthday (mid July). I took a Friday off of work so I could do a three day thrash and finish it up. The Thursday before this the machine shop called and said he had a small problem. There are 32---4 groove valve keepers/locks in the kit. My bag had 31 --4 groove and ONE 2 groove lock in it. The retainers are at 10* , he had 6* and 8* 4 grooves, but no 10's. Lunati sent me the right one but it sure set me back on my deadline with other mishaps. :bricks: Just something to check. I like a nice lopey idle and this cam sounds nice, I like it.
Quote from: kawahonda on November 30, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
How does that Voodoo cam compared to this hughes cam?
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=search&search=2832&submit=Go&partid=30242
Basically I said "look stock as much as possible", hit the 13s, 3.73 gears, and be very streetable and that what was recommended to me.
I also said I wouldn't mind more choppy lope, but nothing drastic.
The Hughes cams are well designed as well , May be ground by Engle but I doubt it , dealing with Hughes can be more challenging tho
Chryco, what do you think about that specific cam grind? It seems like it "might" be getting into the aggressive territory. Any drawbacks/cons that you can think about vs the voodoo cam, which seems more tame?
I like the sound description of it: "Sound: You'll definitely know it's not stock". Ha. Do you think it has a radical lope, or just a little choppy?
I'm seriously at a huge loss when it comes to cams and don't know what's better/good. All I know is that most aftermarket cams will kill the stock 340 cam. That Hughes cam seems like it has higher numbers than that voodoo cam, but that's all I can say/know. I know how a camshaft works, but I don't have applied knowledge when it comes to lift, duration, etc.
With gearing, I could play with calculators/RPM/Speed and get a good idea on what gears work for me. Took a couple months to really "be sure" (3.73 is what I finally settled on with a 727), but with cams, it's all math I don't understand.
Come next winter, I'm doing a full rebuild, so I'll need to settle in on a cam and whether or not I use my stock intake or go with the RPM air gap. Determine if my torque converter needs an improvement, etc. All other decisions are pretty straight forward...
My goal upon opening the hood when all said and done is for even a purist to go "well, that's a fairly stock-looking engine!"
Didn't mean to hijack, just wanted your opinion on that cam grind compared to the voodoo cam that you like.
The cam should work very well , the duration is not excessive just watch piston to valve clearance it will have a noticable idle but shoudl pull hard from 2k up
Seems to have more lift per duration as well lift is always good as long as you don't touch the pistons !!
Jason, did you buy the degree kit? If you didn't, I have one you can borrow. Did your kit come with a double rolled timing chain or the silent link type? :cheers:
Quote from: jimynick on December 02, 2018, 08:07:08 PM
Jason, did you buy the degree kit? If you didn't, I have one you can borrow. Did your kit come with a double rolled timing chain or the silent link type? :cheers:
Hey Ian thanks for the offer as always!
I purchased the Cam degree Kit from Summit with my order. I like tools! In all seriousness, I work so slow, I hate to borrow tools, because there is no telling how long it will take me to get things done. I know this should only be a weekend job, but its pretty rare for me to get a whole weekend to work on the car. My life is so crazy right now, that I will pick away at this after the holidays and hope I am done before spring!
The timing chain in the kit is advertised as a double roller...which I one of the reasons I purchased the kit, other wise I would have just bought them separately.
Jason
No worries Jason, have fun! :bigthumb:
Its like xmas morning over here!!!
Now the fun or is it the work begins!!!
Jason
Hey Jas, you doing the carb too? You running a Holley? Let me know about the carb, as a buddy has an ultrasonic cleaner that we could stick the carb in if you so chose. :cheers:
Quote from: jimynick on January 07, 2019, 06:41:53 PM
Hey Jas, you doing the carb too? You running a Holley? Let me know about the carb, as a buddy has an ultrasonic cleaner that we could stick the carb in if you so chose. :cheers:
Yeah the carb is looking a little ruff...so I figure I would pull it apart while I had everything else apart. I am also going to switch out the secondary meeting plates to a meeting block that uses jets.
I will certainly take you up on that offer. I will let you know when I have it apart!
Jason
:veryexcited:
We are here if you need help of course :bigthumb:
Quote from: Cudajason on January 07, 2019, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: jimynick on January 07, 2019, 06:41:53 PM
Hey Jas, you doing the carb too? You running a Holley? Let me know about the carb, as a buddy has an ultrasonic cleaner that we could stick the carb in if you so chose. :cheers:
Yeah the carb is looking a little ruff...so I figure I would pull it apart while I had everything else apart. I am also going to switch out the secondary meeting plates to a meeting block that uses jets.
I will certainly take you up on that offer. I will let you know when I have it apart!
Jason
All good, let me know and if I may, how much for the new metering plates? Did you buy jets to go in those new metering plates? :cheers:
Quote from: jimynick on January 08, 2019, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: Cudajason on January 07, 2019, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: jimynick on January 07, 2019, 06:41:53 PM
Hey Jas, you doing the carb too? You running a Holley? Let me know about the carb, as a buddy has an ultrasonic cleaner that we could stick the carb in if you so chose. :cheers:
Yeah the carb is looking a little ruff...so I figure I would pull it apart while I had everything else apart. I am also going to switch out the secondary meeting plates to a meeting block that uses jets.
I will certainly take you up on that offer. I will let you know when I have it apart!
Jason
All good, let me know and if I may, how much for the new metering plates? Did you buy jets to go in those new metering plates? :cheers:
@jimynick (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/jimynick_55) the new metering plate was $55 USD. it does not come with jets. I figure I will take a trip out to Rudy Helds once I get close and pick up a few jests. I like the idea of being able to tune the secondaries.
Jason
Thx. Jason! Somewhere, I have a selection of Holley jets, but damned if I could put my hand on them right away. What I also have, is a book on Holleys that a member on CC.com gave me should you wish to refer to it. Since tailpipe sniffers have become scarce these days, maybe you should consider welding bungs into the exhaust so that a wide band O2 sensor could aid in your tuning. Maybe you should do whatever the hell you want to, but I thought I'd make the observations. Holler if you need something and let both Murray and I know when you're going to Rudy's and we'll make it a gang invasion! :cheers:
Well the easy part is pretty much done!!!
My plan is to degree the old cam just for fun...and to really understand what the specs are!!
Now i just need to order a crank socket to do it...not cheap!!!
I also have the carb apart...just have to drill out one of the clear sight plugs that broke!
Jason
Quote from: Cudajason on February 22, 2019, 06:00:15 PM
Now i just need to order a crank socket to do it...not cheap!!!
It's just an 1.25" socket. Not that dear is it? $10-$15?
Quote from: dodj on February 22, 2019, 06:42:54 PM
Quote from: Cudajason on February 22, 2019, 06:00:15 PM
Now i just need to order a crank socket to do it...not cheap!!!
It's just an 1.25" socket. Not that dear is it? $10-$15?
No no...that I have, already have that bolt out.
I need the socket that will turn the crank with the bolt and balancer removed. Bonus if you can attach the degree wheel to it!!
Jason
Eathanol will eat the sight plugs .
If you have a large open end wrench you can use that on the end of the crank to turn it , I have done this in the past . :bigthumb:
I use the original bolt with some thick washers to hold the degree wheel on, or even mount the balancer with the degree wheel in front of it.
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on February 22, 2019, 07:12:13 PM
I use the original bolt with some thick washers to hold the degree wheel on, or even mount the balancer with the degree wheel in front of it.
:iagree:
Add some washers and use the same bolt/socket.
I always just spin them forward and the bolt will tighten enough so it won't back off anyway. To remove just strike the end of the wrench with a hammer to jar the bolt loose.
https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/pro-67493/overview/
This is the one I used. It keys to the crankshaft key and lock with a set screw.
I was talking about using it on the nose of the crank , it will stop against the key
:Stirring: Hurry up already, you could be driving this in a couple of weeks! :deadhorse: :wrenching:
:D
Quote from: Brads70 on March 03, 2019, 09:59:50 AM
:Stirring: Hurry up already, you could be driving this in a couple of weeks! :deadhorse: :wrenching:
:D
Yeah I know I am slow...work is crazy...life is crazy...I am slowing going crazy...but I will get it done and be driving in spring...I hope. :crazytalk: :crazytalk: :crazytalk: :crazytalk:
Jason
Hmmm...I think I found one of the issues contributing to my collant leak.
The edges of the timing cover around the water inlet and outlet look pretty thin.
I happen to have an extra timing covers and the edges look much better. Only issue with my spare one is that the fuel pump mount bolt holes are striped, bit that should be an easy fix.
Jason
The crank seals look to be different diameters? No? If you need those fuel pump holes helicoiled I think I have a 3/8" kit here?
What's with the galling where the cam runs Jason? It's expensive, but Permatex's The Right Stuff is what I'd be using on it to seal it up. That stuff's really got a seal going for it. :cheers:
Well I made a bit of progress last night.
Got the valve springs on the drivers side switched out. Left out the inner spring as per instructions.
Tonight i hope to tackle the passanger side.
Still lots to do but with the weather warming up its easier to get work done!!!
Nice. Changing springs in the car takes a bit of time.
Jason, I don't know if it's just my elderly eyeballs, but that pic of the valve spring taken from right above doesn't look right to me. The keepers should be pretty well tight together and the top of the valve looks worn and uneven. Then there's the look of the retainer itself with that hollowed edge around it's circumference. Have you checked and compared the installed heights of them to see if they're the same? Not trying to rain on your parade here buddy, but I don't want there to be any misery either. :cheers:
Quote from: jimynick on March 19, 2019, 06:21:44 PM
Jason, I don't know if it's just my elderly eyeballs, but that pic of the valve spring taken from right above doesn't look right to me. The keepers should be pretty well tight together and the top of the valve looks worn and uneven. Then there's the look of the retainer itself with that hollowed edge around it's circumference. Have you checked and compared the installed heights of them to see if they're the same? Not trying to rain on your parade here buddy, but I don't want there to be any misery either. :cheers:
@jimynick (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/jimynick_55) Ian, just grab a couple pints, drive the six blocks over to his place and deal with this man to man. No hiding behind a keyboard. :haha:
Quote from: blown motor on March 19, 2019, 06:49:28 PM
Quote from: jimynick on March 19, 2019, 06:21:44 PM
Jason, I don't know if it's just my elderly eyeballs, but that pic of the valve spring taken from right above doesn't look right to me. The keepers should be pretty well tight together and the top of the valve looks worn and uneven. Then there's the look of the retainer itself with that hollowed edge around it's circumference. Have you checked and compared the installed heights of them to see if they're the same? Not trying to rain on your parade here buddy, but I don't want there to be any misery either. :cheers:
@jimynick (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/jimynick_55) Ian, just grab a couple pints, drive the six blocks over to his place and deal with this man to man. No hiding behind a keyboard. :haha:
I can't argue with your suggestion Murray, but I don't want to invade the man's space either. If Jas wants me to look at it, I will. :tool:
The locks look fine to me , they never go 360* , there has to be a gap so they are tight on the valve stem .
Quote from: blown motor on March 19, 2019, 07:17:32 PM
Oh I hear you. But you know you can go and see @Cudajason (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cudajason_260) anytime....by appointment only. :pokeeye:
You guys are hilarious!!!
Quote from: jimynick on March 19, 2019, 06:21:44 PM
Jason, I don't know if it's just my elderly eyeballs, but that pic of the valve spring taken from right above doesn't look right to me. The keepers should be pretty well tight together and the top of the valve looks worn and uneven. Then there's the look of the retainer itself with that hollowed edge around it's circumference. Have you checked and compared the installed heights of them to see if they're the same? Not trying to rain on your parade here buddy, but I don't want there to be any misery either. :cheers:
Ian if you want to pop over and have look just give me a ring! I want to chat with you about your buddy with the ultrasonic clear!
I think its the pic that is playing tricks. The valves all show sign of wear, but look pretty even and straight.
I did check the top of the valves with a straight edge, and there is a very slight wiggle and I mean just enough to feel the straight edge move, but I think they are ok
The retainers are very different from the factory ones and I think its just the shadows in the pic.
I was curious about the valve locks too.
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on March 19, 2019, 09:16:14 PM
The locks look fine to me , they never go 360* , there has to be a gap so they are tight on the valve stem .
Thank you sir!!!!
I was surprised at the strength of the springs. The seem lighter compared to stock, using my scientific hand test. I assume the inner spring will add a bit more to them.
Jason
Quote from: RUNCHARGER on March 19, 2019, 06:55:57 AM
Nice. Changing springs in the car takes a bit of time.
yeah its a bit of a pain...but I did not want to take the heads off.
Jason
Yes: Overall it's less work and faster this way. The locks look fine, if there was no gap you would have a problem.
I have run into my first problem.
I noted when installing the outer valve springs (which is what lunati recommends fro cam break in) that the inner springs would not fit over the stock vale steam seals (which are now all new).
I figured easy fix...different style valve seals.
I called the lunati tech line today to see what they suggested.
I was told the springs I have need to have the head machined to accept the inner spring and positive valve seals. Um...seriously, I thought this was a pretty mild cam. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Has any one else installed the 702 cam and had to do this.
I really did not want to take the heads off. Serves me right for buying a package deal!
The cam is in the engine and I am trying to get it all back together this month.
Jason
Quote from: Cudajason on April 05, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
I have run into my first problem.
I noted when installing the outer valve springs (which is what lunati recommends fro cam break in) that the inner springs would not fit over the stock vale steam seals (which are now all new).
I figured easy fix...different style valve seals.
I called the lunati tech line today to see what they suggested.
I was told the springs I have need to have the head machined to accept the inner spring and positive valve seals. Um...seriously, I thought this was a pretty mild cam. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Has any one else installed the 702 cam and had to do this.
I really did not want to take the heads off. Serves me right for buying a package deal!
The cam is in the engine and I am trying to get it all back together this month.
Jason
Jason, I installed a Lunati 703 cam. I also bought separately Lunati's springs, retainers and locks. I ordered them all separately with Lunati tech support help..good thing i did as the full kit would have come with the wrong locks, as my valves all have single grooves for the locks... Their tech support was excellent, and i had no problem other than the hassle of having to twice remove all to first install for breakin without the inner springs, and then redo it to put in the inner springs.
I originally had mopar performance dual springs in my engine, so probably had the type of valve seals that work with dual springs. Lunati tech did tell me that their springs are a "little lighter" than the Mopar performance springs, so keep the revs to a max of about 6,000 which is fine with me ! Trouble i have is that my 904 automatic will upshift at only about 4,200 rpm unless i manually hold it, and with this 703 cam in it, it revs so fast i have to be careful to make sure i shift at 5,500 or ill feel power drop off suddenly, at about 6,000 like he told me.
Quote from: chargerdon on April 05, 2019, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: Cudajason on April 05, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
I have run into my first problem.
I noted when installing the outer valve springs (which is what lunati recommends fro cam break in) that the inner springs would not fit over the stock vale steam seals (which are now all new).
I figured easy fix...different style valve seals.
I called the lunati tech line today to see what they suggested.
I was told the springs I have need to have the head machined to accept the inner spring and positive valve seals. Um...seriously, I thought this was a pretty mild cam. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Has any one else installed the 702 cam and had to do this.
I really did not want to take the heads off. Serves me right for buying a package deal!
The cam is in the engine and I am trying to get it all back together this month.
Jason
Jason, I installed a Lunati 703 cam. I also bought separately Lunati's springs, retainers and locks. I ordered them all separately with Lunati tech support help..good thing i did as the full kit would have come with the wrong locks, as my valves all have single grooves for the locks... Their tech support was excellent, and i had no problem other than the hassle of having to twice remove all to first install for breakin without the inner springs, and then redo it to put in the inner springs.
I originally had mopar performance dual springs in my engine, so probably had the type of valve seals that work with dual springs. Lunati tech did tell me that their springs are a "little lighter" than the Mopar performance springs, so keep the revs to a max of about 6,000 which is fine with me ! Trouble i have is that my 904 automatic will upshift at only about 4,200 rpm unless i manually hold it, and with this 703 cam in it, it revs so fast i have to be careful to make sure i shift at 5,500 or ill feel power drop off suddenly, at about 6,000 like he told me.
thanks
@chargerdon (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/chargerdon_451) I ordered this kit on the advice of the tech line...no one said that I would need to machine the heads for the springs.
Any chance you have the part number for the springs handy?
Jason
ALL true , Dual springs do require the steams to be trimmed for smaller diameter seals , surprized that the 702 calls for a dual spring :thinking:
While dual springs and PC oil seals are nice, why can't you call the tech line and explain your setup- as is? Why not use a single spring appropriately rated that'll fit your valve spring pocket and guide boss? As you noted, the engine won't likely go much over 5000, so it's not like you're trying to qualify for Stock Eliminator. Sometimes the KISS principle has something going for it. :cheers:
Yes, i have the number.
It was right on the cam card of my 703 Cam. Springs are part number LUN-73195-16, retainers are 75740-16, single groove retainers number 77112-16 (note the locks were the difference as a kit would have come with 77126-16 locks which would not have worked.
But, please remember my 360 wasn't stock as I removed a Mopar Purple 508 cam, so it already had dual springs in it, and the valves weren't stock either. The tech new this because they were single groove for the locks, he said all mopar 360's stock had dual groove locks.
So my heads very well might have been machined before when the Mopar dual springs were installed.
My only issue was after installing and remeasuring the pre-left i was reading between .080-.085, instructions says it should be between .020-.060. Called tech line again, and the tech said that while between .020-.060 was ideal .080 shouldn't be a problem as chrysler usually set the pre-load with stock parts at around .100, so he said if it runs fine (which it does) to not worry about it and don't spend the money for shorter push rods. Lunati Techs were very very patient with me and helped a lot !!
Good luck...i would call lunati tech again, and see is there are any other of their springs that they could recommend that would fit!
Quote from: jimynick on April 05, 2019, 09:08:37 PM
While dual springs and PC oil seals are nice, why can't you call the tech line and explain your setup- as is? Why not use a single spring appropriately rated that'll fit your valve spring pocket and guide boss? As you noted, the engine won't likely go much over 5000, so it's not like you're trying to qualify for Stock Eliminator. Sometimes the KISS principle has something going for it. :cheers:
Yeah that's my plan. the guy I spoke to on Friday did not indicted there were any other options, but I will try again.
I think I am going to go ahead and put everything back together and break in the cam with the outer springs.
I do have a set of factory 340 springs, but I can't image those are the same specs.
@Chryco Psycho (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/chryco-psycho_4) , I agree I was surprised that the cam called for dual springs. I think it has to do with the lift???
@chargerdon (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/chargerdon_451) thanks. I understand the difference in our set up, but was just curious as to what springs you had. Those are the same as mine.
Jason
Maybe check and see if the beehive springs/retainers are an option? That's what I used from Lunati, I think ( it's been awhile?) they are single spring?
Well I received a response form the Lunati Tech line today:
"The cam is small enough to get away with some brand new factory springs. Just don't use well used springs. You're looking for around 100lbs on the seat and around 280lbs on the open side."
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Not sure why they recommend dual springs and include them in the Kit for this cam...but they do!
At this point I am going to bolt everything back together (once I get a timing cover) and break the cam in with the outer springs, then change them over to well I am not sure yet...I am going to look at options for a spring that fit the above specs.
At least I can move forward now.
Jason
I have a set of stock 340 springs, retainers and locks siting around.
The specs I found online indicate that they are close to the specs listed in my last post.
I really do not want to buy another set of springs, retainers and locks at this point
I think I am just going to go with these springs and see how she runs.
Does this sound like a good idea or am I just being stupid.
Jason
Just remember with the stock springs, keep the redline at 5500 or less and you will be fine... I would think...but im no expert. !
Quote from: Cudajason on April 11, 2019, 08:49:13 AM
I have a set of stock 340 springs, retainers and locks siting around.
The specs I found online indicate that they are close to the specs listed in my last post.
I really do not want to buy another set of springs, retainers and locks at this point
I think I am just going to go with these springs and see how she runs.
Does this sound like a good idea or am I just being stupid.
Jason
I second opinion that the new 340s you have will work sufficiently. Stock bottom 360 should not be taken to the same rev limit as 340s anyway. Confirm seat pressure though. Also confirm all valve lock to spring seats are the same. If not then shim springs to compensate.
if the spring rating is similar to the recommended springs you will be OK , the valve & spring have to stay stable with the faster ramp speeds this is why the increased spring pressure
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on April 18, 2019, 12:42:42 PM
if the spring rating is similar to the recommended springs you will be OK , the valve & spring have to stay stable with the faster ramp speeds this is why the increased spring pressure
Understood. What I can find online, they come close. I am not going to lean on the engine too much, so I will install them and see how it runs.
Finally made some progress.
Got the lifters and valve train installed and torqued down. Just put the intake on for kicks. Tomorrow I hope to clean it ip a bit and install it. I plan on skipping the cork gaskets on the end and use a beed of permatex copper gasket maker.
Feels good to get some parts back on.
Jason
Good to see things coming together :twothumbsup:
Good to see it getting together.
Soon to :stayinlane:
Any more progress ?
Quote from: blown motor on April 29, 2019, 05:23:47 AM
@Cudajason (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cudajason_260) :popcorn:
I like popcorn too!!!
I have the intake bolted on...but that is about it for new progress.
Work was crazy last week, then I was away for the weekend, now back to the craziness of work.
I hope to get back to wrenching this week, then pick up the last of the parts I need this weekend and get things back together! I still have a lot to do!!!!
:fingerscrossed: :wrenching: :fingerscrossed:
Jason
Well work has been crazy and I have had no time to touch the car the last few weeks.
This weekend the weather was amazing so i spent the better part of the last two days getting my hands dirty.
I have the engine back together and almost ready to fire. I have 5 Quarts of Brad Penn break-in oil in the pan. 12 bucks a quart bet better safe than sorry.
I am most of the way through rebuilding the carb. I just need to find a missing choke spring and I can finish that up. Not sure where the hell it went!
I still have to bend some new fuel lines due to converting the carb to a secondary jets instead of the plate.
I hope to get to that sooner rather than later, because work is still going to be crazy!
Felt great to get it this far!
Jason
Quick update. I managed to find the spring on the floor of my garage tonight. Just had to go out and have a look and :banana: :banana:
I should have it all back together tomorrow!!!
Jason
Way to go: The season is upon you.
Can't wait to hear it run. Keep us posted.
Congrats :twothumbsup:
:bradsthumb: on finding the spring.
Congrats on the almost completion.
Soon...
Post some video of her coming back to life :) I wish you the best and hope it all goes great!
Always the smallest part causes the most delays and aggravation!
Glad you found that spring.
Should be a GREAT startup :wrenching:
Got the carb back together and everything else bolted on.
Have a plan for the fuel lines. Just need some 3/8 rubber line and some thread sealer.
Probably be next weekend before I have the time turn the key and break in the cam, but well see.
Jason
Looking good buddy, looking good! tic, tic, tic........
https://www.gsasupplyco.com/products/gasoila-e-seal-thread-sealant-with-ptfe
Has anyone used this product to seal fuel lines ?
I know the tape is no good as it can breakdown then clog.
I have used similar products , I worked in the fuel industry for a while , we used a combination of tape & liquid sealer to make sure there were no leaks
Quote from: 73440 on May 22, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
https://www.gsasupplyco.com/products/gasoila-e-seal-thread-sealant-with-ptfe
Has anyone used this product to seal fuel lines ?
I know the tape is no good as it can breakdown then clog.
From description it sounds exactly what you want.
I have always used thread tape with never an issue.
Key is to not have it all the way at top of threads where it does get exposed. First "dry" thread will seal significant amount. Second is to be sure and wrap tape the correct direction so it does not unwind when tightening. Incorrect direction it can ball up in front of fitting causing a plugged ussue down the line.
Quote from: YellowThumper on May 23, 2019, 07:46:39 AM
Quote from: 73440 on May 22, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
https://www.gsasupplyco.com/products/gasoila-e-seal-thread-sealant-with-ptfe
Has anyone used this product to seal fuel lines ?
I know the tape is no good as it can breakdown then clog.
From description it sounds exactly what you want.
I have always used thread tape with never an issue.
Key is to not have it all the way at top of threads where it does get exposed. First "dry" thread will seal significant amount. Second is to be sure and wrap tape the correct direction so it does not unwind when tightening. Incorrect direction it can ball up in front of fitting causing a plugged ussue down the line.
I typically use this:
https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-temperature-thread-sealant/
It has always worked well for me.
I picked up some this week.
I have also picked up the rest of the things I needed, shortened the feed line to the carb and think I am ready to fire it up!!
I plan to video the first start and share it here!!
Jason
:woohoo: :clapping: :twothumbsup:
Good luck with initial firing, Jason!! We all are waiting to hear it!
Maybe I missed it, did you degree the cam? :popcorn:
No joy tonight boys!
Started with flames out the carb...dizzy was 180 degrees out.
Fixed that. Tried it again and it just will not catch. More flames out the carb. After that I called it quits for the night.
I hope I did not kill the cam.
Thoughts fellas?
Let me see if I can post a video
https://youtu.be/xrBQNROmhZQ
Manually rotate the engine until you are at tdc compression stroke #1 cyl. Then verify the orientation of the rotor is in line with #1 spark plug wire. You must have spark and fuel as evidenced by the flames, so it must be timing.
Quote from: dodj on May 23, 2019, 05:28:58 PM
Manually rotate the engine until you are at tdc compression stroke #1 cyl. Then verify the orientation of the rotor is in line with #1 spark plug wire. You must have spark and fuel as evidenced by the flames, so it must be timing.
Yeah did that...thought I had it close but apparently not.
I will try it one more time.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/reference-material/18/initial-engine-fire-up/296/
This CP guy knows a thing or two about initial fire ups....
Watch that CP guy, he'll have you firing it up at 11:00 at night with open headers. :pokeeye:
Quote from: blown motor on May 23, 2019, 06:00:40 PM
Watch that CP guy, he'll have you firing it up at 11:00 at night with open headers. :pokeeye:
Who me :notsure:
Heck yeah !!
You are probably more like 2 teeth out not 180 *
Quote from: blown motor on May 23, 2019, 06:00:40 PM
Watch that CP guy, he'll have you firing it up at 11:00 at night with open headers. :pokeeye:
Sounds like a plan to me, if your neighbors don't like the sound of vintage muscle eff em.
Quote from: ledphoot on May 23, 2019, 07:34:47 PM
Quote from: blown motor on May 23, 2019, 06:00:40 PM
Watch that CP guy, he'll have you firing it up at 11:00 at night with open headers. :pokeeye:
Sounds like a plan to me, if your neighbors don't like the sound of vintage muscle eff em.
It was tempting to go tray again...but I like my neighbors so I did not.
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on May 23, 2019, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: blown motor on May 23, 2019, 06:00:40 PM
Watch that CP guy, he'll have you firing it up at 11:00 at night with open headers. :pokeeye:
Who me :notsure:
Heck yeah !!
You are probably more like 2 teeth out not 180 *
Thanks
@Chryco Psycho (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/chryco-psycho_4) that makes me fell a bit better. I think I moved the dist. to much as I was trying to get it to fire and just made it worse.
I am going to double check the timing when I get home tonight and try it again.
Man I really thought I had it all set to go and was really expecting it to fire up when I hit the key!
Jason
it is not as easy at it seems !!
If you position the damper at about 20* advance & line up the rotor & pick up in the dist you will be close , often it still wants more advance , once it is running you can ignore the timing marks & just set the dist where it will run best
Success!!!! I don't think that I killed it!! But not really sure!
The timing was still way off as it ran and was lean so I shut it down after about 5 min. Saw red on the manifolds.
The plug wires were too tight so I could not advance the timing any more. I loosened them up and it fired right back up and ran for a bit more. Much smoother with more advance.
I will have to fix that before I continue!!
Time for a drink!!!
https://youtu.be/I4eDieDMPx4
Excellent!
Enjoy the brew.
Congrats :cheers:
I'm happy to hear you got it running. I love the first video and your persistence. I think most of us feel the same way.
Great news!
All set for the next step!!
Killer day here in the great white north!!
Drivers side done.
I went with the lunati locks and retainers on the stock 340 springs.
The factory retainers did not look like the covers more than half the spring. I like the look of the lunati ones better.
Lunch then the passenger side.
Great , enjoy lunch :bigthumb:
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on May 26, 2019, 02:05:04 PM
Great , enjoy lunch :bigthumb:
Thanks, lunch was good...I have it all buttoned up now. :wrenching:
I am just waiting on some copper gasket maker to cure on the valve cover...had a hell of an oil leak. Then fire it up tomorrow night!!
I also adjusted to dist so the wires fit better and I should be able to get more advance out of it.
I will not likely get it out of the garage before I leave Tuesday for Calgary. Next weekend... :stayinlane: :burnout: :burnout:
Jason
AT least you made progress :twothumbsup:
I assume you just moved the wires 1 position on the dist car & rotated the dist approx 1/8 of a full revolution .
The retarded timing was why the manifolds were glowing
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on May 26, 2019, 11:07:28 PM
AT least you made progress :twothumbsup:
I assume you just moved the wires 1 position on the dist car & rotated the dist approx 1/8 of a full revolution .
The retarded timing was why the manifolds were glowing
Yeah lots of progress. It was great weather and felt nice to be out in the garage some much the last two weekends.
Yeah, I sort of had an epiphany on the dist...as I was loosening it to pull it out it occurred to me that all I had to do was rotate it and move the plug wires on spot...Like wow that is so easy!!!! it just never occurred to my before that moment.
Fortunately I had the engine at TDC on number 1, so I was able to line it all up and should be good to go when I hit the key tonight!!
I figure the timing was an issue when I saw the manifolds glowing...I was more shocked than anything.
Jason
Played with the timing a bit and here it is firing up with the new springs.
This is idling around 1100 rpm, and has 18 degrees of timing.
The vacuum is rock steady and higher then I have ever seen!
I think I will officially say the cam is broke in and I am ready to start tuning the carb / fine tuning the timing!
:banana: :banana:
https://youtu.be/ADWxl5rsOjo
Did I miss it in previous posts? but did you run it at 2000 for 20 minutes to break it in?
Quote from: Brads70 on May 27, 2019, 06:28:20 PM
Did I miss it in previous posts? but did you run it at 2000 for 20 minutes to break it in?
sort of..I polished the bottoms of the lifters (the Shane Kelly prep), So I fired it up and ran it a 2000 for 8 mins or so. I had to shut it down as the it was running very lean and hot, not to mention a pretty bad oil leak at the valve cover.
That is the process Shane suggested when he broke the news on polishing the lifters.
Jason
As I told you a while back 2 cams with very similar specs can be very different as the spec only measures the cam @ 2 points on the lobe but doeesn't show the actual lobe profile so yes it is good to see the vacuum reading is good & steady , proper tuning will yield more results than you can imagine , I believe you will be truly amazed once you get it all sorted out :twothumbsup:
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on May 27, 2019, 11:29:35 PM
As I told you a while back 2 cams with very similar specs can be very different as the spec only measures the cam @ 2 points on the lobe but doeesn't show the actual lobe profile so yes it is good to see the vacuum reading is good & steady , proper tuning will yield more results than you can imagine , I believe you will be truly amazed once you get it all sorted out :twothumbsup:
Oh yeah I hear you. I have read so much about the benefits of the lunati voodoo design and how it is different from most cams, so I am very excited to see what this cam will do.
I love to tinker with the carb and the tuning process, so I hope I am amazed in the end!!!
I have wanted to swap out the old cam for a few years now...the engine always worked ok, but not a lot of low end umph!
Jason
The Lunatis are the best I have found in that range too,
Got the old girl out of the garage and tuned up.
Running 20 degrees initial and 34 total. That seems to be the best vacuum at idle under load.
If the weather holds off I will get her out for a road test.
Here is a video of it idling in drive.
To be honest I think I hear a tick...but I admit I am overly paranoid about this.
Jason
https://youtu.be/qj9EH1U6PrM
Sounds good. Curious, what was your vacuum before and after the cam?
Quote from: kawahonda on June 02, 2019, 11:36:27 AM
Sounds good. Curious, what was your vacuum before and after the cam?
I think the best I got before was 11 or 12. This cam, 20 while in Neutral and 15 when in drive.
On the up side, there seems to be lots of low end with this cam. Still need to dial in the carb, but even at half throttle from stop it spins the tires. Full throttle from idle, no bog, little spin seems to want to really go!
So that end I was happy.
Now I just need to fix they tapping lifter.
Jason
Quote from: Cudajason on June 02, 2019, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: kawahonda on June 02, 2019, 11:36:27 AM
Sounds good. Curious, what was your vacuum before and after the cam?
I think the best I got before was 11 or 12. This cam, 20 while in Neutral and 15 when in drive.
On the up side, there seems to be lots of low end with this cam. Still need to dial in the carb, but even at half throttle from stop it spins the tires. Full throttle from idle, no bog, little spin seems to want to really go!
So that end I was happy.
Now I just need to fix they tapping lifter.
Jason
Sounds odd....a more aggressive cam should not raise vacuum, but lower it...at least that's what I would expect.....11 is pretty bad for a "before"! I always measure my vacuum in park. I think "by the book" you should do it in "N".
Curious because i'm just wondering what's "normal" for a 340 stock cam. I get 16.5" of vacuum at 3,000 feet in PARK at 850 RPM. Sounds like a healthy engine to me, but I ain't no pro.
I would not say it is a more aggressive cam but more a far better designed cam , thus better vacuum & low end response :twothumbsup:
Quote from: Cudajason on June 02, 2019, 09:26:48 AM
Got the old girl out of the garage and tuned up.
Running 20 degrees initial and 34 total. That seems to be the best vacuum at idle under load.
If the weather holds off I will get her out for a road test.
Here is a video of it idling in drive.
To be honest I think I hear a tick...but I admit I am overly paranoid about this.
Jason
https://youtu.be/qj9EH1U6PrM
I realized that I never came back an update this trhera. SO for the purpsoes of some that may look at this in the future...here is a link to my thread on the results of the TICK I thought I heard! Warning...its not good.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/engine-transmission-and-rear-end/4/ahhh-crap-bad-lifter/11551/
Jason