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E-Bodies Cuda & Challenger (sponsor: ROSEVILLE MOPARTS) => Cuda & Challenger General Discussion (ROSEVILLE MOPARTS) => Topic started by: Jsand73440 on March 22, 2023, 06:17:53 PM

Title: Rear window install
Post by: Jsand73440 on March 22, 2023, 06:17:53 PM
What do you all use for installing your rear window, the polyurethane from a tube or the window ribbon?
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 04:52:20 AM
I used the 3M brand glass adhesive from a tube . . . no leaks or issues on my end.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Challenger in NC on March 23, 2023, 05:11:30 AM
Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 04:52:20 AM
I used the 3M brand glass adhesive from a tube . . . no leaks or issues on my end.

What did you do to get the correct glass spacing for your trim? The original type of ribbon usually adds 5/16" or 3/8" height off the frame, correct?
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Challenger in NC on March 23, 2023, 05:59:47 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Mrbill426 on March 23, 2023, 04:01:08 PM
@Claudia (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/claudia_139) , so you place the glass on the spacers then flood the channel with the adhesive?  I assume the adhesive stays put and does not "run"?



Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Jsand73440 on March 23, 2023, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.

So the glass is flush with the sheet metal body surrounding it?  I guess i was thinking of maybe using the ribbon strip material so i could get the right height.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Dmod1974 on March 23, 2023, 04:56:18 PM
I used 3/8" butyl tape when I did mine with aftermarket OER brand glass.  It really depends on how thick your glass is.  It'll likely need 5/16" or 3/8" to get the height correct.  OEM glass tends to run thicker.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Jsand73440 on March 24, 2023, 04:42:48 AM
Quote from: Dmod1974 on March 23, 2023, 04:56:18 PM
I used 3/8" butyl tape when I did mine with aftermarket OER brand glass.  It really depends on how thick your glass is.  It'll likely need 5/16" or 3/8" to get the height correct.  OEM glass tends to run thicker.
My back glass is original. The local auto paint store had the butyl rope kit for $30. I thin this is probably the direction i will go.
The last time i used the 3M tube or similar product, and now as i look back, I remember having issues with the glass being not level in places.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 04:52:54 AM
Quote from: Mrbill426 on March 23, 2023, 04:01:08 PM
@Claudia (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/claudia_139) , so you place the glass on the spacers then flood the channel with the adhesive?  I assume the adhesive stays put and does not "run"?



Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.

@Mrbill426 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/mrbill426_888) Spacers I made were just to test fit . . . once everything was installed during the dry fit, I measured the thickness needed (open air gap) between the metal window frame and the actual glass (from inside the car).  I then removed everything including the spacers and applied the needed thickness of sealer to the metal window channel, set the glass and once cured, installed the trim.  Adhesive was really thick and did not run at all.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: Jsand73440 on March 23, 2023, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.

So the glass is flush with the sheet metal body surrounding it?  I guess i was thinking of maybe using the ribbon strip material so i could get the right height.

@Jsand73440 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/jsand73440_14001) No, glass is inset from being flush with the outer sheet metal which allows for the rear window trim to be installed and once everything is installed, trim should sit flush with the outer sheet metal. 

I opted to not use the ribbon strip as when I dry fit everything initially, my gap was not perfectly consistent all the way around the glass so having the flexibility to lay down a thicker bead in different areas worked out best for me as I was trying to get my trim to sit flush all the way around with the outer sheet metal as well as sitting flush on the the glass itself.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Jsand73440 on March 24, 2023, 08:42:16 AM
Quote from: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: Jsand73440 on March 23, 2023, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.

So the glass is flush with the sheet metal body surrounding it?  I guess i was thinking of maybe using the ribbon strip material so i could get the right height.
What do you do with the open areas on the bottom side of glass that may collect water under the trim? Do you fill in with more of the adhesive?
@Jsand73440 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/jsand73440_14001) No, glass is inset from being flush with the outer sheet metal which allows for the rear window trim to be installed and once everything is installed, trim should sit flush with the outer sheet metal. 

I opted to not use the ribbon strip as when I dry fit everything initially, my gap was not perfectly consistent all the way around the glass so having the flexibility to lay down a thicker bead in different areas worked out best for me as I was trying to get my trim to sit flush all the way around with the outer sheet metal as well as sitting flush on the the glass itself.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 09:05:07 AM
Quote from: Jsand73440 on March 24, 2023, 08:42:16 AM
Quote from: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: Jsand73440 on March 23, 2023, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.

So the glass is flush with the sheet metal body surrounding it?  I guess i was thinking of maybe using the ribbon strip material so i could get the right height.
What do you do with the open areas on the bottom side of glass that may collect water under the trim? Do you fill in with more of the adhesive?
@Jsand73440 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/jsand73440_14001) No, glass is inset from being flush with the outer sheet metal which allows for the rear window trim to be installed and once everything is installed, trim should sit flush with the outer sheet metal. 

I opted to not use the ribbon strip as when I dry fit everything initially, my gap was not perfectly consistent all the way around the glass so having the flexibility to lay down a thicker bead in different areas worked out best for me as I was trying to get my trim to sit flush all the way around with the outer sheet metal as well as sitting flush on the the glass itself.

No, I did not fill in that area.  It appeared to me that using either method would result in some open areas.  My car had two metal "props" or tabs at the bottom of the window frame opening that helped to set the glass vertically.  Also, my trim clips are screwed into the sheet metal window frame so there would be an open air gap all the way around my rear glass.  My car doesn't normally get driven in the rain so I wasn't worried about water collecting.  However, I do drive my car so I have been caught in the rain once or twice so far . . . a leaf blower or air hose works wonders for cleaning out collected water!
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Mrbill426 on March 24, 2023, 10:23:41 AM
Thanks for clearing that up; I didn't realize the sealer was that thick and stayed in place without running or sagging.



Quote from: Claudia on March 23, 2023, 05:29:23 AM
I just made spacers out of some rubber that I had laying around to place the glass . . . I test fit the glass and trim to ensure the correct height of the glass so that the trim is flush once they were both installed.
[/quote]

@Mrbill426 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/mrbill426_888) Spacers I made were just to test fit . . . once everything was installed during the dry fit, I measured the thickness needed (open air gap) between the metal window frame and the actual glass (from inside the car).  I then removed everything including the spacers and applied the needed thickness of sealer to the metal window channel, set the glass and once cured, installed the trim.  Adhesive was really thick and did not run at all.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Mrbill426 on March 24, 2023, 10:30:02 AM
My upper molding clips are held in by pins in the sheet metal but I have to drill holes in the replacement lower filler panel.  I your case did the top edges of your molding clips end up flush with the sheet metal surfaces... below... above?

Quote from: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 09:05:07 AM
No, I did not fill in that area.  It appeared to me that using either method would result in some open areas.  My car had two metal "props" or tabs at the bottom of the window frame opening that helped to set the glass vertically.  Also, my trim clips are screwed into the sheet metal window frame so there would be an open air gap all the way around my rear glass.  My car doesn't normally get driven in the rain so I wasn't worried about water collecting.  However, I do drive my car so I have been caught in the rain once or twice so far . . . a leaf blower or air hose works wonders for cleaning out collected water!
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: Mrbill426 on March 24, 2023, 10:30:02 AM
My upper molding clips are held in by pins in the sheet metal but I have to drill holes in the replacement lower filler panel.  I your case did the top edges of your molding clips end up flush with the sheet metal surfaces... below... above?

Quote from: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 09:05:07 AM
No, I did not fill in that area.  It appeared to me that using either method would result in some open areas.  My car had two metal "props" or tabs at the bottom of the window frame opening that helped to set the glass vertically.  Also, my trim clips are screwed into the sheet metal window frame so there would be an open air gap all the way around my rear glass.  My car doesn't normally get driven in the rain so I wasn't worried about water collecting.  However, I do drive my car so I have been caught in the rain once or twice so far . . . a leaf blower or air hose works wonders for cleaning out collected water!

Yeah, if I recall correctly (it was some time ago now), my upper front windshield trim pieces attached with the pins . . . I believe that the top edge of my rear window trim clips sat just below flush of the sheet metal.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Jsand73440 on March 24, 2023, 02:48:58 PM
Thanks for the good ideas.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Mrbill426 on April 14, 2023, 09:44:49 AM
@Claudia (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/claudia_139), thanks.

Quote from: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: Mrbill426 on March 24, 2023, 10:30:02 AM
My upper molding clips are held in by pins in the sheet metal but I have to drill holes in the replacement lower filler panel.  I your case did the top edges of your molding clips end up flush with the sheet metal surfaces... below... above?

Quote from: Claudia on March 24, 2023, 09:05:07 AM
No, I did not fill in that area.  It appeared to me that using either method would result in some open areas.  My car had two metal "props" or tabs at the bottom of the window frame opening that helped to set the glass vertically.  Also, my trim clips are screwed into the sheet metal window frame so there would be an open air gap all the way around my rear glass.  My car doesn't normally get driven in the rain so I wasn't worried about water collecting.  However, I do drive my car so I have been caught in the rain once or twice so far . . . a leaf blower or air hose works wonders for cleaning out collected water!

Yeah, if I recall correctly (it was some time ago now), my upper front windshield trim pieces attached with the pins . . . I believe that the top edge of my rear window trim clips sat just below flush of the sheet metal.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Katfish on April 14, 2023, 02:10:08 PM
 If worried about water, what about runnimg a bead of silicon before putting the trim on?
Well after the window is set and sealer is dry.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: YellowThumper on April 17, 2023, 08:19:03 AM
Good advice given by @Mrbill426 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/mrbill426_888)
I have installed windows with and without the Butyl strip.
Definitely prefer without.
My experience with it is you end up fighting the variances between body and glass profiles. Eventually reaching a compromise between them. In my case, trim was not proper levels.
Test fit with noted spacers to find best levels. Lay necessary bead on glass. I also recommend leaving small pieces in lower channel to support glass from sliding downward along with a nesting edge to retain exacting height during cure. I also add a couple thickness spacers at the top to prevent over settling. Top ones just taped in place on glass so it barely overlaps onto the seating bed. These are then removed after only a short time once ot has setup slightly.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: Mrbill426 on April 17, 2023, 01:40:03 PM
@YellowThumper (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/yellowthumper_324)  I honestly did not realize that the caulking gun applied adhesive was such that the glass would sit on top of it without it "squeezing" out.  Sounds like you can be more precise with it than the butyl in setting the glass' depth into the opening so that the reveal moldings fit properly.  Right?   



Quote from: YellowThumper on April 17, 2023, 08:19:03 AM
Good advice given by @Mrbill426 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/mrbill426_888)
I have installed windows with and without the Butyl strip.
Definitely prefer without.
My experience with it is you end up fighting the variances between body and glass profiles. Eventually reaching a compromise between them. In my case, trim was not proper levels.
Test fit with noted spacers to find best levels. Lay necessary bead on glass. I also recommend leaving small pieces in lower channel to support glass from sliding downward along with a nesting edge to retain exacting height during cure. I also add a couple thickness spacers at the top to prevent over settling. Top ones just taped in place on glass so it barely overlaps onto the seating bed. These are then removed after only a short time once ot has setup slightly.
Title: Re: Rear window install
Post by: YellowThumper on April 17, 2023, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: Mrbill426 on April 17, 2023, 01:40:03 PM
@YellowThumper (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/yellowthumper_324)  I honestly did not realize that the caulking gun applied adhesive was such that the glass would sit on top of it without it "squeezing" out.  Sounds like you can me more precise with it than the butyl in setting the glass' depth into the opening so that the reveal moldings fit properly.  Right?   



Quote from: YellowThumper on April 17, 2023, 08:19:03 AM
Good advice given by @Mrbill426 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/mrbill426_888)
I have installed windows with and without the Butyl strip.
Definitely prefer without.
My experience with it is you end up fighting the variances between body and glass profiles. Eventually reaching a compromise between them. In my case, trim was not proper levels.
Test fit with noted spacers to find best levels. Lay necessary bead on glass. I also recommend leaving small pieces in lower channel to support glass from sliding downward along with a nesting edge to retain exacting height during cure. I also add a couple thickness spacers at the top to prevent over settling. Top ones just taped in place on glass so it barely overlaps onto the seating bed. These are then removed after only a short time once ot has setup slightly.
My experience is yes.
Having owned my Challenger for 40 years now, I have removed and reinstalled it twice.
First time using the Butyl tape. 3/8 thick not knowing it should have been 5/16. I struggled to get it down enough to fit trim properly. This was when I added window tint.
At same time discovered a small rust hole that I poorly patched.
Second time (not able to source the 5/16) I used the tube stuff. Did use spacers on bottom to position it centrally in hole. But unfortunately I was too aggressive in pressing it into place. As it currently resides, the window is slightly too low.
The 3rd time coming up in a year or so, I will be following the advice I just commented with.
Spacers that will insure it remains exactly where I want it on all levels.