borgeson vs rack & pinion

[TripleBlk70]

I want to update/upgrade the front suspension on my 70 Challenger convertible (which is also getting a 392 hemi). I can't afford a full-blown aftermarket k-member setup and frankly it's overkill for my situation anyway. I plan to drive the car on the street, which will include highway driving, but I won't be racing etc.

I have seen that a lot of folks recommend the borgeson box, and it seems like that might be a good compromise between the OE steering box and rack & pinion.

I would like to hear from guys who have gone with either the borgeson box, or aftermarket rack and pinion like Unisteer. I've seen mixed reviews on the Unisteer unit. Any advice or experience is appreciated.

[7212Mopar]

If you want to drive the car that has the modern car steering feel, The Borgeson box will not meet what you want. It will however provide you better steering feel, less play and slightly faster ratio than stock steering. The Borgeson box will be a simple bolt on if you also get the steering shaft adapter. I have the Borgeson box a few years now. Much better center feel and minimal play going straight down the highway. Speed and precision cannot match a modern daily driver with
rack and pinon steering.

[TripleBlk70]

Thank you for responding. Are you happy with your choice - or do you wish you had gone with a rack & pinion? How much/often do you drive your car? I plan to drive mine a lot in the summer.

I wish I could drive a challenger with a borgeson box to get a feel for myself. My las project was a 55 chevy that I rebuilt from the ground up, including the front suspension with a brand new steering box. Which works fine, for what it is, but I am looking for a better steering feel than what I have in the chevy (for my challenger).

[Katfish]

I've posted the following regarding my Gen3 swap, I drive my car a lot

I'll go against the grain and say it wasn't worth it for me.
I put in a "cop box" in the 90's when you could still get them at Advance Auto.
I later did the power steering pump shim upgrade too, and the steering was great.
I only decided to go Borg because of my Gen3 swap for added space.
The install was cumbersome, working through various issues.
I actually put the box in while the 340 was still in the car and drove it 6 months before the motor swap.
The 5.7 is now in the car with the Holley power steering swap pump.
Had to get new fittings and custom hose made, it works, with the hissing at low RPM everyone mentions.

Since then, I have seen several other E-bodies with the Gen3 swap using factory steering gear at car shows.

Take this with the understanding I'm "budget minded", so this was a waste for me. The $1k could have been used several other places.
Does it have better feel than what I had? Maybe, but hardly noticeable.
The car is a cruiser and not autocrossed, but again, I can't tell the difference.

This mod seems to be in the category of " I've done everything else and seems cool"

I will add, if you have a 50yr old sloppy stock box, then yeah, it's better
But if you have already upgraded to 1 of the Firm Feel type boxes, then I doubt you'd notice a difference.

[TripleBlk70]

Well thanks for sharing, super helpful to hear your experience Katfish.

Budget is always a concern for me (and most people), and I'm trying to decide where best to spend my money to make the car as nice as possible without bankrupting myself in the process.

Based on my experience with the 55 chevy (new box) and what you said about the borgeson, I really think I need to find a way to make rack & pinion happen. I have been looking for options, so far I've only seen Unisteer and haven't heard from anyone who's put one in their car. Hoping someone will chime in here.

I don't think I can afford to go whole-hog on a complete and brand aftermarket new k-member. Too many other things yet to do on the car and that's a big expense.

[Bullitt-]

  I've had neither but remember reading  years ago about Unisteer having a bump steer issue. I couldn't find any e-body specific complaints today but did see this as being an issue for other makes.
 Most interestingly https://www.unisteer.com/collections/mopar/E-Body does not list a rack & Pinion for e-bodies today...

 MoparLeo listed one for sale here a while back
https://forum.e-bodies.org/index.php?msg=336950

[RUNCHARGER]

Stock firm feel Mopar box would feel tons better compared to a fresh 55 Chevy setup and is what my choice would be. R&P is opening a can of worms unless it is properly scienced out.

[Bullitt-]

Stock firm feel Mopar box would feel tons better compared to a fresh 55 Chevy setup and is what my choice would be. R&P is opening a can of worms unless it is properly scienced out.

  I agree and perhaps fast ratio Pitman & idler arm if fitment allows
https://firmfeel.com/e_body_mopar_fast_ratio_pitman_idler_arm.html

++ lower the pump pressure to help with over assist
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/MoparAction/PumpItDown.pdf
https://bergmanautocraft.com/product/shim-kit-saginaw-power-steering/
    or something like this if using the modern motor's pump https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Heidts-PS-101-Adjustable-Power-Steering-Flow-Valve,14895.html

+++ as mentioned in the MoparAction article a smaller steering wheel will help with feel.

[HP2]

I've used Firm Feel set-ups and they are considerably improved over stock. I have a Borgeson in my current build but do not have any use with it yet. I have found that using an aftermarket racing style pump removed the need to perform the shim trick to reduce pressure and as a result, the overassist that comes stock.

The issue with bolt on R&P systems, and the Uni-Steer in particular, is that they lack the lack the travel to allow full steering angle and as a result, create worse than stock bump steer results. This can make bumps at highway speed a bit more of a thrilling ride than one might want.

With that said, I do know someone who has adapted a R&P system to their car but it required fabrication, altered geometry, and I think either a custom rack or relocated engine, to make it work. It also is a dedicated racing vehicle that get regular inspections to make sure everything is holding up satisfactorily. So it can be done, but will require considerably more work that simply bolting parts together.

[7212Mopar]

Thank you for responding. Are you happy with your choice - or do you wish you had gone with a rack & pinion? How much/often do you drive your car? I plan to drive mine a lot in the summer.

I wish I could drive a challenger with a borgeson box to get a feel for myself. My las project was a 55 chevy that I rebuilt from the ground up, including the front suspension with a brand new steering box. Which works fine, for what it is, but I am looking for a better steering feel than what I have in the chevy (for my challenger).

For my car, I decided to keep the Mopar suspension setup with upgraded parts to improve handling. So I did not go with the rack and pinon. I also went with Borgeson for faster ratio and lighter weight. Overall I am very happy with how the car drives and handles. I just wanted to point out that it is not equivalent with a modern rack and pinon to avoid unwarranted disappointment.

[HP2]

No, the Borgeson is not the equivalent of a R&P. But it is a modern recirculating ball steering box and is most similar to what is found in later model trucks.