is the cost of restoring an E body exceeding its value when complete?

[headejm]

I just finished my "project" that took me about 5 years to totally complete at my own pace. I basically loved every minute of it except for the PITA Mopar specific stuff like installing the fuel tank and working on an installed dash. I started to add up all of my receipts but gave up when it became a little overwhelming. My car was very nice when I started but looked 50 years old. I refurbished or replaced everything. Probably $50k or so spent and it is probably worth $50k finished (maybe more). It helps to spread the $ over several years. In my area, it's difficult to find good body/paint people that want to tackle a collector car. Most of us can't do that type of work and don't have the proper equipment. So, there goes $25k right off the bat. Engine/trans $10k and everything else $15k. My estimate does not include any of my time. I'm not sure if I'll ever do another "from scratch" project car (probably not). 1970 Challenger RTSE 383 automatic with a good amount of options that I have owned since 1980 so I have a strong connection to.

[70_440-6Cuda]

One last point...   if you want to be at least close to breaking even...then DO NOT be a "Purist"   By that i mean a good new part such as a bumper, generally is less than a third of a rechromed or like new OEM bumper.    To me a decent brand looks just fine...can a purist tell the difference...sure...but then i never expect to ship the car to Arizona for the Barrett auctions either.   Cracks me up when people insist on OEM NOS parts...

This is a great comment as I am sure many have been down this road.  We decided we wanted to avoid after market parts wherever possible and have for sure invested more than is necessary for period correct authentic Mopar parts.  That is just our preference and part of the fun has been the treasure hunt to find something you need.   I found the best car I could afford that needed work as I wanted a project; just not a project that needed a lot of metal fab as I am not competent enough to do that work myself.  Also, there is the experience I am sharing with my son and daughter working on the car and teaching them basic planning, how to use basic tools and project / money management.

From an investment perspective, I am still waiting for that quick turn investments that nets a big profit.  I could have bought a completed car for 2x what I paid and been in a better position financially but that did not have the fun factor I as looking for.  In the end, I do not foresee the e-body cars going down in value in the long run, so from an investment perspective my kids will enjoy owning my pride and joy 30 years from now and I expect it will be worth quite a lot more than it will be when completed.

If it is a short term investment opportunity you are looking for, I agree, buy one done; If you pay someone else to complete your restoration just know that in order to hopefully come out financially it is a long term play.

[1970Cuda]

I agree with YYZ (and also Alan), and definitely think that choosing the right project is critical because, from my perspective, it not only takes a lot of financial commitment, but also a lot of perseverance. Especially if it is a person's first project.

I do take a slightly different (and certainly tangential) tack to this argument of "hobby vs. investment," as I always consider it a hobby first and then a risky investment. I think everyone needs a hobby and I also think that everyone needs some risky investments (albeit only a small amount), so if I break even on my restoration, that is good enough for me or even lose a little (adding up not just hard dollars but also the soft costs) that is all right as well.

And besides, some things must be calculated as extrinsic.

My final thought is "whatever I think it will cost me, multiple that by around 40 percent" and I might be close. At least that is my 0.01 cents worth.

[torredcuda]

I have built a couple cars with the goal of selling to make money and not counting my labor I`ve made a few bucks but mostly I look at it as a hobby I enjoy and spend money on. I view it the same as going out to eat, going on vacation or a cruise, buying flowers for your garden or a million other things we spend money on that has no monetary return - we just enjoy them.

[GoMangoBoys]

I have just had this conversation with 2 other people recently who were discouraged about this very topic.  To me, it is not just about money.  In the end, I could have bought a decent car in drivable condition that we could have really enjoyed having for way less money than I am spending on this restoration.  But...  I would not be learning the things that I am learning.  I would not have the satisfaction that i have in accomplishing this. And most importantly, I would not be making the friends that I am making along the way.  This puts me in mind of the meme that shows car parts strewn around a shop.  The caption says "then there is the moment when you realize that a really good drugs addiction would have been cheaper."  I am in this for the fun, the challenge the learning and the comradeerry. 

[torredcuda]

I have just had this conversation with 2 other people recently who were discouraged about this very topic.  To me, it is not just about money.  In the end, I could have bought a decent car in drivable condition that we could have really enjoyed having for way less money than I am spending on this restoration.  But...  I would not be learning the things that I am learning.  I would not have the satisfaction that i have in accomplishing this. And most importantly, I would not be making the friends that I am making along the way.  This puts me in mind of the meme that shows car parts strewn around a shop.  The caption says "then there is the moment when you realize that a really good drugs addiction would have been cheaper."  I am in this for the fun, the challenge the learning and the comradeerry.

   

[YYZ]

I have ...The caption says "then there is the moment when you realize that a really good drugs addiction would have been cheaper."  I am in this for the fun, the challenge the learning and the comradeerry.

[Cuda_mark]

I have built a couple cars with the goal of selling to make money and not counting my labor I`ve made a few bucks but mostly I look at it as a hobby I enjoy and spend money on. I view it the same as going out to eat, going on vacation or a cruise, buying flowers for your garden or a million other things we spend money on that has no monetary return - we just enjoy them.

It's definitely cheaper than owning a boat!!

[tparker]

Looks like a lot of people spent a lot more on there car than I did. The amount spent depends on what you have and what you want. I have been noticing if you have a hemi, every part is $1000 lol. boy am I glad I didn't grab one years ago. I'd never be able to afford to fix it.

I did ALL the work to mine myself with the exception of the motor and the dash recover.  y car was built on the cheap, and it shows in places. I'm ok with that as I didn't want to build a show car and I don't get sever heart pain when I ding my paint. My car isn't worth the big bucks like some of yours as a result. Not sure what I could get out of it. 20k, maybe more? I don't know.

I put in maybe 5 years of weekends over about 7 or eight years. I had about 2 years of little to no work. I did all body work and painting, reupholstered the seats, installed both windows and vinyl top. I even changed my own tires. LOL.  I successfully followed @Cuda Cody's steering wheel rebuild vid. I am mechanically inclined and worked entry type jobs at a body shop and several auto shops. So I can do basic stuff but had to learn and figure out most things. It is all doable with time and patience along with the help of YouTube and the amazing people on this site. The following numbers are rough estimates and some will be a little low and others maybe a little high. but you get the point. I was able to do everything for under 15k and thats is including $2500 for the car and a few upgrades I started with years ago. At the end of the day, I won't be under water.

$1000 1970 challenger w/318 in 1991
        ? 340 engine 1991
        ? 727 1991
        ? Drive shaft shortened 1991
        ? Heavy duty leaf springs 1991
----------------------------------------
$2500 starting total (approx)

$600 Roof skin (new)
$300 Trunk floors (new)
  $50 filler panel (used)
$100 lower rear quarter panel (new)
$1500 uphosltery (new)
$100 package tray {new}
$200 carpets (new)
$150 Headliner (new)
$100 nuts and bolts interior
  $50 steering wheel (used)
   $15 sun visors (used)
$450 4 tires
$150 vinyl top
$100 front window (used)
$100 rear window (used)
$150 wrong air cleaner (but I needed one) (used)
$400 carb
$1000 exhaust headers
$1000 dual exhaust
$3500 Engine rebuild
$300 Torque converter
$150 starter
$200 harmonic converter
$1500 paint and body supplies.
$1000 est misc parts
$500 est misc tools
----------------------
$10515 total parts, tools, supplies

$300 duplicat parts
$250 unused parts
$300 wrong parts
----------------------
$850 total wasted money


$2500 starting total (approx)
$10515 total parts, tools, supplies
   $850 total wasted money
=====================
13865 total into car.

[Mr Lee]

[

$300 duplicat parts
$250 unused parts
$300 wrong parts
----------------------
$850 total wasted money


[/quote]

I laughed out loud when I read this part as I can relate to this.  Did my car over the span of 30 years.  Ya tend to lose track of what you already purchased sometimes.  The fun part is taking everything you don't use to Carlisle and turning it back into cash. 

But to @tparker I'd say you did very well!  And totally agree - I would never have been able to restore a hemi car

My folder of receipts is literally 2 inches thick.  It's amazing how many little things you'll need and how much they add up.  I never added it all up accurately but probably have about $50k into mine and I consider myself lucky that I could probably sell it for about that.  And I did everything myself except:
body and paint
engine and trans rebuild
rear end rebuild
vinyl top install
dash re-cover

'70 RT Challenger, 383 4 spd  gator top

I will admit that having a nicely done car, with nice paint and trim and everything is great, but sometimes I wouldn't mind if my car weren't as nice.  Like maybe a nice 15 footer.   I think I would drive it more and not worry about door dings, rock chips etc as much.   

Advice I would give to someone thinking about a resto on a car to keep for a long time.  Invest in things like dynamat, tighten up your steering and suspension and add disc brakes.  Make the car drive better.

[DeathProofCuda]

@Mr Lee
Great looking car.  Love the stance.

[Mr Lee]

Thanks 

[chaps70rt]

Well ..... I am 15 years into a restoration and can honestly suggest that it is not a good investment, but an expensive hobby.

$ 12,000 for the purchase of barely running shell with original floors and trunk (good)
$ 25,000 in body panels, body work, paint, finishing
$ 42,000 in parts, engine, suspension, wheels, tires, modern upgrades (EFI), etc .....

It's essentially an old shell with nice OEM or repro parts, added options, reliable, great looking driver.  Not numbers matching.

Started tracking in a spreadsheet from the beginning and have all the receipts.  The journey was exciting, the people I met were terrific.  Would I do it again .... probably not.   Start with a decent car that needs cosmetics, paint, etc.   

What's it worth??   Maybe $50,000 ...........  no idea to be honest!   Will find out soon ..... 

[70_440-6Cuda]

I am in agreement it that it is best to start with a solid foundation, the metal work, if you cannot perform it yourself, is where the big costs are in my experience.  When I was looking that was the highest priority - as little rust as possible.  Problem is there just aren't that many out there that aren't swiss cheese.

I am sure I will be upside down - I got extremely lucky to find a running, driving V code 'Cuda and even luckier to actually find the missing broadcast sheet.  Even with the cool story and the fairly desirable options, my guess is the car will be worth $100-$110K when I am done restoring it back to original.  I paid about half that for the car, which I think is pretty fair, but the Dana 60 was $4K and that is just one of the big ticket items I have been hunting for.  I am doing all the work myself, including attempting to replace the trunk floor so we will see how it all pans out.  I am also keeping a running spreadsheet of all costs, including freight, parts I bought and sold etc. so I will know the costs pretty accurately.

In the end, I want to own a 'Cuda, brings back the nostalgia of high school and back road drags so I just hope to be "close" on the investment side.  My dad gave me his '40 Ford Tudor Sedan that he owned since a senior in high school.  I am probably into that car $100K and it will never be worth half that - but I don't care because I will never ever sell that car and my son will own it one day.  Same for the 'Cuda - both cars are willed directly to him on my passing.  If he liquidates everything after I am on the wrong side of the dirt I won't know the difference.....

PLUS my wife can't spend the 'Cuda!!!

[headejm]

To OP: short answer Yes.