Tav 1970 Road Runner RM23N0G217270

[cataclysm80]

There are 5 levels of Mopar cooling
1. Standard Cooling
2. Air Conditioning (bigger radiator with shroud, different water pump impeller, bigger fan blade & thermal drive with 2 rpm limits)
3. High Capacity Fan (pulls more air at all RPM, no RPM limit like thermal drive or torque drive)
4. Max Cooling (biggest radiator with shroud, air conditioner sized fan blade but with torque drive that has 1 rpm limit)
5. Trailer Towing (this is the Max Cooling radiator with the High Capacity Fan)

What is the part# on the fan you ended up using?

There are 3 fan blades for a 1970 383 four barrel B body...  (all have 7 blades)
18 inch diameter with 2 inch width Standard Blade 2863 224
18.5 inch diameter with 2.5 width Air Conditioning & Max Cooling Blade 2863 216
18 inch diameter with 2.125 width High Capacity & Trailer Towing Blade 2863 223      <-------  I used this one.

The High Capacity blade has the blades bent at a different pitch and is very heavy duty.  The blades are sandwiched between thick metal front and rear, and held in place with big rivets.  This blade has to be balanced, so some of the blades will have rivets that appear to be in random places.  That's how they added weight to balance it.
Some of these units have a part number stamped in the metal, and some of them had it applied with a paint stamp.  The units with a paint stamped part number are usually missing the number due to the paint wearing off / rust.  You can still identify the blade by the measurements and description / pics though.  It looks different than the other blades.
The one that I found had the paint stamp gone.
Here's some pics of another one.

[cataclysm80]

There are 5 levels of Mopar cooling
1. Standard Cooling
2. Air Conditioning (bigger radiator with shroud, different water pump impeller, bigger fan blade & thermal drive with 2 rpm limits)
3. High Capacity Fan (pulls more air at all RPM, no RPM limit like thermal drive or torque drive)
4. Max Cooling (biggest radiator with shroud, air conditioner sized fan blade but with torque drive that has 1 rpm limit)
5. Trailer Towing (this is the Max Cooling radiator with the High Capacity Fan)

1970 383 four barrel B body cooling...

Standard Cooling with Manual Transmission
22 inch Radiator 2998 954
Shroud only used on 335 horsepower engines with the high performance camshaft.  No shroud on 330 horsepower engines.
Fan Blade 7 blade 18 inch diameter with 2 inch width 2863 224
Spacer 1.06 inch thick

Standard Cooling with Automatic Transmission
22 inch Radiator 2998 960
Shroud only used on 335 horsepower engines with the high performance camshaft.  No shroud on 330 horsepower engines.
Fan Blade 7 blade 18 inch diameter with 2 inch width 2863 224
Spacer 1.06 inch thick

Air Conditioning
26 inch Radiator 2998 961
Shroud Yes
Fan Blade 7 blade 18.5 inch diameter with 2.5 width 2863 216
Spacer Thermal Drive which limits fan RPM and has a different RPM limit when it senses being hot
Note: Air Conditioning uses a water pump with a different impeller.

High Capacity with Manual Transmission
22 inch Radiator 2998 954
Shroud only used on 335 horsepower engines with the high performance camshaft.  No shroud on 330 horsepower engines.
Fan Blade 7 blade 18 inch diameter with 2.125 width 2863 223
Spacer 1.06 inch thick

High Capacity with Automatic Transmission
22 inch Radiator 2998 960
Shroud only used on 335 horsepower engines with the high performance camshaft.  No shroud on 330 horsepower engines.
Fan Blade 7 blade 18 inch diameter with 2.125 width 2863 223
Spacer 1.06 inch thick

Max Cooling
26 inch Radiator 2998 956
Shroud Yes
Fan Blade 7 blade 18.5 inch diameter with 2.5 width 2863 216
Spacer Torque Drive which limits fan RPM

Trailer Towing
26 inch Radiator 2998 956
Shroud Yes
Fan Blade 7 blade 18 inch diameter with 2.125 width 2863 223
Spacer 1.06 inch thick



For comparison, The 383 four barrel Max Cooling setup is the same parts that were Standard Cooling with a Hemi.
The Hemi could not get Air Conditioning, Max Cooling or Trailer Towing.


Standard Cooling was standard of course.
Air Conditioning Cooling came with option H51 Air Conditioning
Max Cooling came with the various axle packages
Trailer Towing Cooling came with option A35 Heavy Duty Trailer Towing Package
I'm not sure how you'd order the regular "High Capacity" cooling, but the books say it was available on everything except Hemi and 383 Police cars.

[6bblgt]

where did you find this info & how would #3 end up on a vehicle?  AFAIK there were NO OPTIONAL "cooling packages"
where did you find 330hp NO shroud VS. 335hp shroud info?

There are 5 levels of Mopar cooling
1. Standard Cooling
2. Air Conditioning (bigger radiator with shroud, different water pump impeller, bigger fan blade & thermal drive with 2 rpm limits)
3. High Capacity Fan (pulls more air at all RPM, no RPM limit like thermal drive or torque drive)
4. Max Cooling (biggest radiator with shroud, air conditioner sized fan blade but with torque drive that has 1 rpm limit)
5. Trailer Towing (this is the Max Cooling radiator with the High Capacity Fan)

1970 383 four barrel B body cooling...
#1
Standard Cooling with Manual Transmission

Standard Cooling with Automatic Transmission
#2
included with H51 Air Conditioning
#3
?? High Capacity with Manual Transmission

?? High Capacity with Automatic Transmission
#4
included with axle packages A36 (3.55s) or A31 (3.91s) Max Cooling
#5
included with package A35 Trailer Towing

[fc7cuda]

@cataclysm80
Thank you for the detailed response. My V code Cuda has the 960 radiator and the 224 fan as original.  3.23 open gear car.  Sounds like I might be able to battle the Texas heat alittle better by changing to the 223 fan without much noticeable different at shows. 

Great read, and thank you for sharing.   

[Chryco Psycho]

Great Info
Thanks for adding it 

[cataclysm80]

@cataclysm80
Thank you for the detailed response. My V code Cuda has the 960 radiator and the 224 fan as original.  3.23 open gear car.  Sounds like I might be able to battle the Texas heat alittle better by changing to the 223 fan without much noticeable different at shows. 

Great read, and thank you for sharing.   

Yep, that sounds right.   I just glanced at the 'Cuda 440-6 info, and assuming that your 960 radiator is original, you should have an automatic transmission with standard cooling, which is the standard fan blade with a 1.60 spacer. (no torque drive)
The 223 fan is also the High Capacity fan for that application, so you'd be going from standard cooling to high capacity cooling.
If you need more cooling after that, there's the 956 max cooling / trailer towing radiator. (even though the trailer towing option wasn't available on a 440-6)

Manual transmission 440-6 standard cooling used a different radiator number, and had a torque drive.

If you have a torque drive on your car, then you'll also need to get a 1.60 spacer to replace it.
The standard blade & high capacity blade have a small bolt pattern for the 1.60 spacer.
The air conditioning & max cooling blade have a large bolt pattern for the thermal drive or torque drive.

[cataclysm80]

where did you find 330hp NO shroud VS. 335hp shroud info?

In 1970
A 383 four barrel with 330 horsepower was optional with auto trans in Belvedere, Satellite, & Sport Satellite (and equivalent Dodge Models)

A 383 four barrel with 335 horsepower was standard with any trans in Roadrunner, and optional with manual trans in Belvedere, Satellite, & Sport Satellite (and the same for equivalent Dodge models)

The main difference between the two was that the 330 horsepower engine used the same camshaft as the 383 two barrel engine, while the 335 horsepower engine used a high performance camshaft.

This info is in the 1970 Plymouth B body Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual (and probably in several other places also).


Then there is this page in the 1970 Plymouth Factory Service Manual.  I've highlighted the pertinent areas.
It includes a special footnote that the 335 horsepower engines with a high performance camshaft had a shroud.
This strongly implies that the 330 horsepower engines did not get shrouds, because if both 330 & 335 had shrouds there would be no need for the special footnote.  It would just say "YES".

[6bblgt]

great detective & organizational skills!
I knew the info had to out there somewhere & the "shroud" YES or NO question seems to come up from time to time

I'll check the other '70 service manuals tomorrow - but I'll "ASSUME" at this point .....

ALL 1970:
Road Runners, Super Bees, Chargers, 'cudas & Challenger R/Ts had a fan shroud (Coronet R/Ts, Charger R/Ts & GTXs also)

[cataclysm80]

I'm not sure how you'd order the regular "High Capacity" cooling, but the books say it was available on everything except Hemi and 383 Police cars.

where did you find this info & how would #3 end up on a vehicle?  AFAIK there were NO OPTIONAL "cooling packages"

There are 5 levels of Mopar cooling
1. Standard Cooling
2. Air Conditioning (bigger radiator with shroud, different water pump impeller, bigger fan blade & thermal drive with 2 rpm limits)
3. High Capacity Fan (pulls more air at all RPM, no RPM limit like thermal drive or torque drive)
4. Max Cooling (biggest radiator with shroud, air conditioner sized fan blade but with torque drive that has 1 rpm limit)
5. Trailer Towing (this is the Max Cooling radiator with the High Capacity Fan)

1970 383 four barrel B body cooling...
#1
Standard Cooling with Manual Transmission

Standard Cooling with Automatic Transmission
#2
included with H51 Air Conditioning
#3
?? High Capacity with Manual Transmission

?? High Capacity with Automatic Transmission
#4
included with axle packages A36 (3.55s) or A31 (3.91s) Max Cooling
#5
included with package A35 Trailer Towing

The info primarily comes from the 1970 Plymouth Factory Service Manual, though the fan blade part numbers had to be looked up in the 70-71 Parts Manual.
I posted one of the FSM pages just above this in reply to one of your questions. 
I've attached a pic of another FSM page below that describes the 5 levels of Mopar cooling.


The FSM says that these 5 cooling levels exist, but it isn't specific about how you would get either the High Capacity or the Max Cooling.
I've seen it mentioned in several places that Max Cooling was acquired through the 5 performance axle packages (only two of which were available with a 383 four barrel).
As I mentioned, I don't know how you'd get the regular High Capacity cooling. 
Perhaps some option that I haven't thought of?
Perhaps dealer installed?
While searching for my High Capacity fan blade, I heard several times about how Superbirds originally came with the Max Cooling torque drive fan until November 5th 1969 when they switched to the High Capacity fans with a spacer.  I wasn't building a Superbird, so I didn't look into the topic. 
Looking at the FSM page that I posted above, it indicates that the High Capacity cooling was available on a large variety of engines, so it's not just a Superbird thing.

[6bblgt]

#3

"An optional high capacity fan to protect against overheating for unusual operating conditions is available"

I think it is only going to be found on fleet and/or maybe EXPORT orders

[cataclysm80]

I'll "ASSUME" at this point .....

ALL 1970:
Road Runners, Super Bees, Chargers, 'cudas & Challenger R/Ts had a fan shroud (Coronet R/Ts, Charger R/Ts & GTXs also)

Since the 335 engine was standard in all Road Runners & Super Bees, they should all have shrouds.

I've heard that Chargers could come with the 330 horsepower engine, but the source was a restoration book, so the info should be double checked with a factory source. 
A 330 horsepower engine wouldn't have a shroud unless it had air conditioning, axle package, or trailer towing to bump it into a different cooling level.

I looked in the 70 Challenger Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual to see if 330 & 335 horsepower engines were both available.
The book contains a discrepancy.  I does list the 383 four barrel twice, once with the standard camshaft and once with the high performance camshaft, but it shows both at 335 horsepower.
I looked in the 1970 Dodge Division Code Guide for Challenger to see if it could clear thing up, but no luck.  Both 383 four barrels use the same E63 designation.
Maybe the dealership brochures could clear it up?
I think the 330 horsepower auto trans cars would have a Carter carb if that helps any.  (all the others had Holley)

My guess would be that the performance cars with an "S" VIN would have the 335 horsepower engine, while the regular cars with an "H" VIN would have 330 horsepower with auto trans or 335 horsepower with manual trans.
(EDIT: ^ That's a guess, it may not be correct.  More info about 383 engines, from factory brochures, has been posted below.)

[cataclysm80]

#3

"An optional high capacity fan to protect against overheating for unusual operating conditions is available"

I think it is only going to be found on fleet and/or maybe EXPORT orders

Max Cooling has a similar description there.  unusually severe operation requirements It's an axle package though.

Good thinking on the fleet/export orders.  I can imagine that High Capacity cooling would be useful in a place that allows heater delete cars.

Everyone says that the High Capacity fan blade is difficult to find, so I'd guess that not a lot of them were made.

[6bblgt]

AFAIK all 383 4bbl  '70 Chargers are HP & 335hp
- "ALL badged musclecars (incl. 340 Duster/Swinger & Sport Fury GT) & Chargers" received shrouds

[6bblgt]

and to take this further off-topic

this is an odd cooling combination, not seen often - or maybe anywhere else "documented"
an export ordered & presumably delivered to southeast Asia when new

Challenger R/T convertible 383HP 4-speed w/3.55s (NO mention of an axle package  )
&
N45 - FAN-SOLID DRIVE
N51 - COOLING PACKAGE MAX. LESS FAN

I think this is the "HI-CAPACITY" & it's a 26" radiator
wonder what springs & torsion bars this R/T came with??

[cataclysm80]

In 1970
A 383 four barrel with 330 horsepower was optional with auto trans in Belvedere, Satellite, & Sport Satellite (and equivalent Dodge Models)

A 383 four barrel with 335 horsepower was standard with any trans in Roadrunner, and optional with manual trans in Belvedere, Satellite, & Sport Satellite (and the same for equivalent Dodge models)

The main difference between the two was that the 330 horsepower engine used the same camshaft as the 383 two barrel engine, while the 335 horsepower engine used a high performance camshaft.

This info is in the 1970 Plymouth B body Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual (and probably in several other places also).

I've heard that Chargers could come with the 330 horsepower engine, but the source was a restoration book, so the info should be double checked with a factory source. 

AFAIK all 383 4bbl  '70 Chargers are HP & 335hp
- "ALL badged musclecars (incl. 340 Duster/Swinger & Sport Fury GT) & Chargers" received shrouds

Due to the Charger info being in a separate book from the Challenger / Dart, I don't have as much Charger info around here.  I did manage to acquire some since getting my 68 Charger though.

In the 1968 Dodge Charger Illustrated Facts and Features Manual, The standard engine for a base model Charger is a 318.
The optional engines for a base model 1968 Charger are a 383 two barrel, and a 383 four barrel.
This Charger 383 four barrel is listed as 330 horsepower with the standard camshaft.
The 335 horsepower engine was not available in a 1968 Charger.
The Charger R/T came standard with a 440.  A 383 was not available in the Charger R/T.

I also have the 1968 Dodge Fever dealership brochures. (both the Full Line Catalog and the Performance Models Catalog)
Those agree with Facts & Features Manual, no 335 horsepower 383 in 1968 Chargers.
For the 1968 Coronet, it also lists only the 330 horsepower 383 four barrel on the base model, and a 440 with the R/T.
No 335 horsepower 383 four barrel is mentioned in this book at all.  From what I understand, that engine was a mid year introduction as the standard engine for the Super Bee.

I also have the 1968 Plymouth Beat Goes On dealership brochure.
It does list the 335 horsepower 383 four barrel as exclusive to the Road Runner, not available on any other Plymouth. 
The Plymouth nickname for the 335 horsepower engine is "Road Runner 383 V-8".
The Plymouth nickname for the 330 horsepower engine is "Super Commando 383 V-8".  It was available in Fury & other B bodies (not Road Runner or GTX).
GTX came standard with a 440 and couldn't get a 383.
There was also a 300 horsepower "Super Commando 383 V-8" four barrel that was available in 1968 Barracudas.

I also have the 1969 Look what Plymouth's up to now dealership brochure.
It's very similar to the previous year.  335 horsepower "Road Runner 383 V-8" only available in Road Runners.
330 horsepower "Super Commando 383-V8" available in Fury & other B bodies (not Road Runner or GTX).
GTX came standard with a 440 and couldn't get a 383.
The "Super Commando 383 V-8" for Barracudas was changed.  It was now rated at 330 horsepower, but at a higher RPM and lesser torque than the B body Super Commando.

I also have the 1969 Dodge Fever dealership brochure.
It does list the 335 horsepower 383 four barrel.  The Dodge nickname for this engine is "383 V8 Magnum".  It says that the extra horsepower comes from using the camshaft and heads from a 440.
The Dodge nickname for the 330 horsepower 383 four barrel is "383 4-bbl. V8"
The standard engine for a base model Charger could be either a 225 or a 318.
The optional engines for a base model Charger are a 383 two barrel, and a 383 four barrel with 330 horsepower.
The 335 horsepower 383 V8 Magnum was not available on a 1969 Charger.
The Charger R/T came standard with a 440.  A 383 was not available in a Charger R/T.
Similarly, the base model Coronet could get a 330 horsepower 383 4-bbl. V8, and the Coronet R/T came with a 440.
The 335 horsepower 383 V8 Magnum was only used in the Super Bee.
The Dart GTSport is listed as being available with a 330 horsepower 383 4-bbl. V8.

I also have the 1970 Dodge Material dealership brochure.
It's very similar to the previous year regarding Chargers.  Base model Chargers can get up to the 330 horsepower 383 4-bbl. V8, and Charger R/T came with a 440.  Again, no 335 horsepower 383 V8 Magnum engines listed for a Charger.
The Coronet R/T is still standard with a 440 and couldn't get a 383.
The rest of the Coronet information here is a little vague.  It does say that both 383 four barrels were available, but it doesn't specify whether the 383 Magnum continued to be only on the Super Bee, or if it was also available on lesser models.  The 1970 Plymouth B body Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual says that the base model cars could get the 383 Magnum if they had a manual transmission, so I wouldn't be surprised if base Coronets were handled the same way.  The 1970 Coronet Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual would probably have the answer, but I don't have that book (yet).
The 335 horsepower 383 V8 Magnum was standard in the Super Bee.
The 335 horsepower 383 V8 Magnum was also standard in the Challenger R/T.
It does show that the 330 horsepower 383 4-bbl. V8 was also available on Challengers, but it doesn't specify whether it's base model or R/T or both.
This clears up the discrepancy in the 1970 Challenger Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual, both 383 four barrels were available on Challengers, and the standard camshaft engine should have been listed as 330 horsepower.

The 1970 Challenger Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual says that both 383 four barrel engines were standard on Challenger R/T cars.
The 330 horsepower standard camshaft 383 four barrel was also available on base model Challengers.
I don't see anywhere that it specifies which 383 four barrel engine a Challenger R/T should receive, but I suspect that it's similar to what is specified in the 1970 Plymouth B body Illustrated Facts and Feature Manual for 1970 Belvedere, Satellite, & Sport Satellite, where the manual transmission got you the 383 Magnum, and the auto transmission got you the lesser horsepower engine.