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Tav 1970 Road Runner RM23N0G217270

Started by cataclysm80, September 04, 2017, 04:24:16 PM

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6bblgt

it is much easier to discuss one model year at a time - as things changed from year to year & it does nothing to clear up the big picture - I have numerous issues with what's written above concerning 1968-'69

but for 1970 (since it applies to your B-body & E-bodies)
all US spec. production 'cuda (BS) & Challenger R/T (JS) base engines are 383HP (335hp) painted orange & equipped with a HOLLEY 4bbl carburetor.
there are ZERO 383 4bbl (330hp) painted blue & equipped with a CARTER AVS 4bbl carburetor engines on these "performance" models in any combination.

the above hold true for the medium price "performance" B-bodies: Dodge Super Bee (WM) & Plymouth Road Runner (RM)

& AFAIK if a 4 bbl carb'd 383 was ordered in Dodge's intermediate personal luxury car Charger it was also of the orange painted HOLLEY carburetor version = 383HP (335hp)

6bblgt

the "lessor" non-performance badged B & E-bodies for 1970:
Barracuda
Gran Coupe
Challenger
Challenger SE
Belvedere
Satellite
Sport Satellite
Coronet Deluxe
Coronet 440
Coronet 500

all had 225 or 318 as STANDARD equipment & 383 w/4bbl carb as an OPTION (E63)

with an automatic transmission these cars received the blue painted CARTER AVS carb'd 330hp engine

with a 3 or 4-speed manual transmission these cars received the orange painted HOLLEY carb'd 335hp (383HP) engine

cataclysm80

I remembered that I had the 1970 Barracuda Illustrated Facts and Features Manual.
It says that the 330 horsepower 383 four barrel was available on Barracuda & Gran Coupe.
It says that the 335 horsepower 383 four barrel was standard on the 'Cuda.
No mention of the 335 horsepower 383 four barrel being available in manual trans Barracuda & Gran Coupe.

Even though these manuals & brochures/catalogs were all printed by Chrysler when these cars were new, they still might not be an accurate representation of how the cars were actually built. 
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen an error in factory literature.
It's no wonder that the restoration books which people write, have so many errors.


6bblgt

in '70 there are no non-HP big blocks with a manual transission

6bblgt

it wasn't an advertised choice - the transmission spec'd made the difference

the 383 4bbl OPTION cost was $137.55 (330hp/335hp) on a base 318 V8 Barracuda, Challenger, Belvedere, Coronet or Charger

cataclysm80

#65
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 09, 2017, 03:53:08 AM
and to take this further off-topic

this is an odd cooling combination, not seen often - or maybe anywhere else "documented"
an export ordered & presumably delivered to southeast Asia when new

Challenger R/T convertible 383HP 4-speed w/3.55s (NO mention of an axle package  :rubeyes:)
&
N45 - FAN-SOLID DRIVE
N51 - COOLING PACKAGE MAX. LESS FAN

I think this is the "HI-CAPACITY" & it's a 26" radiator
wonder what springs & torsion bars this R/T came with??

I just looked this ^ over.   WOW, that's a cool car!  (though I'd prefer a different color)
Galen's White Book lists N45 as 1969 to 1971 High Capacity Fan, and lists N51 as Max Cooling.
I'm not quite sure where you'd put it on the order form, but apparently N45 gets you the High Capacity Fan.
I wonder if export cars used a different order form?
That particular car having N45 High Capacity Fan WITH N51 Max Cooling is what the Factory Service Manual describes as level 5 Trailer Towing Cooling.
Interesting that it seems to have been ordered without the A35 Trailer Towing Package, similar to how the 3.55 axle was ordered without the A36 Axle Package.
It looks like the only things in the Axle Package that weren't on the car are the torque drive with fan, and possibly the Extra Heavy Duty Suspension.

Here is the Axle Availability page from the 1970 Dodge Division Code Guide for Challengers.
It lists D56 as being optional on 340 with Auto trans or 4 speed manual trans.
I suppose that availability of this option could have changed over the course of the year.

6bblgt

I know of a '70 340 automatic Challenger that is coded for 3.55s w/o the A36 - I thought it was a mistake but it's there in the coding guide  :looney:

are those '70 coding guides available on this site, if not, why not?

trailer towing shows 3.23 gear only - does that coding list show E60-15s N/A on Challenger convertible?

I think the EXPORT window sticker was intentionally shortened to get it all on one page - no STANDARD equipment list, no space-saver

& yes I believe there are coding guides/order forms for Canada & Export - there are simply OPTIONS not available worldwide


cataclysm80

#67
No, I don't believe these coding guides are available here.  They're pretty hard to find anywhere, though a lot of the info is available in other places.  I think I have most of them for Plymouth & Dodge E bodies 70-74, but I know I'm missing a couple.  Someone had saved them from a closed down dealership, and sent me photocopies of them.  They're the only ones I've heard of, but someone once told me that they had a similar item with a different name. (I never saw what they had, so I'm not sure what to think about that.  Maybe he had a Salesman's Pocket Guide?)  I think these coding guides were used by dealerships to order cars.  They show the various options, suggested color combinations, note what items must be coded, etc. etc.  Neat stuff.  I think they were part of a bigger book that contained coding info for various models.  This 70 Challenger one starts on page 13 of the book, and ends on page 25.  Occasionally there are handwritten notations, either correcting an error or changing an items availability.

On the E-Bodies.org Facebook group, I offered to scan them if needed, along with the dealership brochures if they didn't already have them all.  I believe Tyler said that the were very busy rapidly adding new things.  Hopefully we'll get them added at some point.

U82   E60 x 15   Collapsible Spare Required   Black Side Wall with Raised White Letters
+OPT on 340
OPT on 383-4 & "All Except Conv 440"
N/A W/AC on Conv 440

I'm not sure why the 340 has a "+" with it.  Maybe extra cost?
I also don't follow the notation on Conv 440.   Does "Conv" mean Convertible?  I read the notation as Not Available With Air Conditioning, but that doesn't make any sense.  I can't think of what air conditioning would have to do with tire size.  Maybe "Conv" means Conversion, as a reference to the 440 six pack?  "Conv" is only mentioned in the 440 column.  None of the other engines mention Conv.
Since you asked about this topic, I'm guessing that you know something about it.  Maybe this will make sense to you.

6bblgt

I have originals of the 1972-'74 & '77 Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial Coding guides - the '70+ e-bodies would be great to see in the "resource" section

when the A66 package was introduced for the Challenger mid-September '69 - E60-15 tires were part of the ~$250 package - somewhere around November the package was revised to ~$175 the E60s went away & were replaced by F70-14s.

a friend has a Nov. '69 built 440+6 R/T convertible - the dealership order form spec's out 15x7 rallyes & E60-15s - it's crossed out & noted "N/A convertible" - 14" rallyes & F70-14s came on the car.  Figured it had to be mentioned somewhere I hadn't seen yet.

I'll have to look at a couple tires, but maybe the 440 R/T convertible was overweight for what Chrysler Corp. felt the safety factor needed to be on the E60-15s tire load rating


RUNCHARGER

That makes sense I think: I would guess load rating is why the Hemis went up to F60's rather than E60's. A 440 with A/C is getting close to the weight of a Hemi.
Sheldon

Cuda Cody

I would love to add them to our Resource section of this site.   :bigthumb:     :grouphug:


cataclysm80

Quote from: 6bblgt on September 10, 2017, 02:11:00 AM
I have originals of the 1972-'74 & '77 Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial Coding guides - the '70+ e-bodies would be great to see in the "resource" section

Quote from: Cuda Cody on September 10, 2017, 10:53:44 AM
I would love to add them to our Resource section of this site.   :bigthumb:     :grouphug:

Sounds good to me.   I'll try to find time to scan them.
Is there any particular DPI or pixel size that you prefer?  I can do whatever.

I have...
1970 Dodge Division Code Guide Challenger October 1969
1971 Dart & Challenger Ordering Guide Revised July 6th 1970   (includes 1971 T/A stuff)
1972 Dodge Division Code Guide Challenger Revised 7-30-71
1973 Challenger Code Guide

1971 Barracuda-Gran Coupe-Cuda Code List
1972 Barracuda-Cuda Code List
1973 Barracuda-Cuda Code Guide

Looks like I'm missing the 1970 Barracuda-Gran Coupe-Cuda, and both the 1974 guides.
Does anyone have those?
Dan, do your Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial Coding Guides include the 1974 Barracuda info?

Cuda Cody

The scanning can take a bit of time for sure.  Thank you for anything you can do to help.  Anything from 150 to 300 DPI should be plenty.


Quote from: cataclysm80 on September 10, 2017, 04:17:48 PM

Sounds good to me.   I'll try to find time to scan them.
Is there any particular DPI or pixel size that you prefer?  I can do whatever.

I have...
1970 Dodge Division Code Guide Challenger October 1969
1971 Dart & Challenger Ordering Guide Revised July 6th 1970   (includes 1971 T/A stuff)
1972 Dodge Division Code Guide Challenger Revised 7-30-71
1973 Challenger Code Guide

1971 Barracuda-Gran Coupe-Cuda Code List
1972 Barracuda-Cuda Code List
1973 Barracuda-Cuda Code Guide

Looks like I'm missing the 1970 Barracuda-Gran Coupe-Cuda, and both the 1974 guides.
Does anyone have those?
Dan, do your Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial Coding Guides include the 1974 Barracuda info?

cataclysm80

Quote from: 6bblgt on September 10, 2017, 02:11:00 AM
when the A66 package was introduced for the Challenger mid-September '69 - E60-15 tires were part of the ~$250 package - somewhere around November the package was revised to ~$175 the E60s went away & were replaced by F70-14s.

a friend has a Nov. '69 built 440+6 R/T convertible - the dealership order form spec's out 15x7 rallyes & E60-15s - it's crossed out & noted "N/A convertible" - 14" rallyes & F70-14s came on the car.  Figured it had to be mentioned somewhere I hadn't seen yet.

I'll have to look at a couple tires, but maybe the 440 R/T convertible was overweight for what Chrysler Corp. felt the safety factor needed to be on the E60-15s tire load rating

Oh, I suppose that makes sense.  I hadn't thought about the load rating.  So the notation says that E60 x 15 is not available on a convertible with 440 and air conditioning.  Since your friends car has a six pak, then it doesn't have air conditioning.  Maybe they should have let him have the tires and made a mistake?

This 1970 Dodge Division Code Guide Challenger has "(10-69)" on the front page.  I think that's a date, October 1969.
Later in the guide, it lists the A66 car as coming with F70 x 14 tires with raised white letters, code T87.
The Tire Application section of the guide agrees with that, and also lists F70 x 14 whitewall & E60 x 15 as +Optional.
I think the "+" in the 340 column is some kind of indicator that this is only available in a package.  (A66)

Here's what it looks like.
There's a handwritten notation about F70 x 14 being optional with 225 engines.  Is this correct?  If it's not correct, I can edit out the handwritten notation like it was never there, before putting these up in the resource section for the world to reference.

cataclysm80

May 2017

The button to fold the seat forward is always black.