Map light question

[MKA]

Working my way thru little nits.  My ashtray light stayed on all the time and my map light only worked when the door was open and the headlight or parking lights on     Took me 2 months but it dawned on me that was not a coincidence.   I reviewed the wiring diagrams here  and saw that the orange wires for the console, dash lights, and viola, the ashtray go to an orange accessory connector.   And next viola, my map light was in the orange accessory connector and my ashtray was in a red accessory connector that also appeared to have the ashtray lighter power wire.   Check wiring diagram, yep red to red and orange to orange. reverse the 2, fingers crossed. 

Ok so great, check, my ashtray now only comes on when the parking or headlights are on.   The map light however still only comes on when the door is open, but at least it no longer matters if the headlights are on.   As an additional improvement the seat belt light and the switch lamp panel both come on when door opens regardless of headlight switch position.  Before the headlight switch had to be on for them to work and I like to wear my seatbelt regardless of headlights on thank you

How is the map switch light supposed to work?   When the door opens makes sense ,but I thought on demand also?  My picture below is before I swapped the ashtray and map light wires.  Not sure if that helps the discussion.  I'm assuming I need to trace another hot wire off the map light.   I also have an open slot on the red accessory connector. 

[Dakota]

[MKA]

Pulled this off cc.   Guess I have a ground issue on or near the switch.

1- red wire is batt 12 volts-power all time.

2- switch in one position- door open- light comes on- yellow wire grounds thur door switch

3-switch in other position-- light is on- lamp is grounded via internal ground from switch to case.

factory manual doesn't show this " extra " ground by a symbol- to them it's a given known thing.

[MoparLeo]

Is this a coupe or convertible ?

[MKA]

@MoparLeo

Convertible

[ZippyZoo]

When I was rebuilding my convertible's dash, I came to the same conclusion.  As convertibles do not have a dome light; the "map light" doubles as the courtesy light when the doors are opened with the ground provided by the door switches.  As you noted, the map light switch grounds the circuit through the dash frame for "on demand" lighting.  Verify the map light switch case to map light wire have continuity when the switch is "on" and that the switch case to dash frame and dash frame to ground connections are good.

[anlauto]

I wonder about the convertible with the A01 light group ? Does the map light have a switch ?

[MKA]

I wonder about the convertible with the A01 light group ? Does the map light have a switch ?

Yes, switch on convertible and everything that ZippyZoo says. 

I'm happy now that my ashtray light goes off and on like it should and the map light, seatbelt light and switch lamp work properly on the doors.  Simple things.  There are some posts on CC and here about adding a ground wire to the switch, I might try that after I confirm it's current contact to the dash, but what I can see so far that looks good.   

Apologies for the ugly LED.  It's not supposed to be seen.   

[CudaJim]

Yes X 2, switch on convertible and everything that ZippyZoo says, but to add, from an original wiring 1970 convertible with A01 and non-AC, map light is mounted to steel part of dash, so grounding is less of an issue for the map light switch.  MKA, it appears your car has AC, so map light is mounted to the plastic dash skirt/extension panel, so grounding may be more of an issue, correct?  Also to add, on converts, lights in the rear footwells from each convert side panel also go on with the map light when door is opened and together all three lights replace the single dome light on hard tops.  Note the old school incandescent bulb!

[MKA]

Thanks Jim,   Correct it is an AC car, has the rear seat lights also ( they work fine)  and the switch is attached to a long plastic bezel.   I believe it is being grounded by both screws that attach the map light run through the plastic into the metal frame and a gold colored metal bracket running from one of the vacuum diaphragms into the switch housing ( it's in the pic but it's hard to tell from the angle where it's going).

I did try to run a manual ground and no luck but maybe I wasn't doing that properly.    I will get inverted and check that it's all properly secured and grounded.  Going to go that route first, but the switch is also finicky and my guess is it will be the switch.   Think I'm good for now

Thanks all. 

[moparroy]

I just dealt with this on mine during dash assembly last week. The issue I found was a ground issue internal to the toggle switch so grounding the switch case would not help. If you take the switch out and look closely at the back / connector side of it you might notice the SPDT switch has three internal contacts (small like rivets you can see) but the third contact has no wire terminal. If you ground that third "rivet" the light will come on when the switch is in the on position. I debated replacing the switch with a 3 terminal toggle and a ground wire but wanted to keep the OE look switch. If you look closely at the end of the switch with the blank rivet you might notice there is a thin metal "shim" sandwiched between the switch case and the insulator on the bottom (sorry not home so I cannot give you a pic right now). Thats where the problem was in mine - that shim connects the 3rd terminal to the switch case then to ground - I guess the shim becomes oxidized over time and gives a poor connection from the 3rd terminal inside to the case. I was going to solder a wire to the rivet to the case but instead I just put a blob of solder on the end between the end of that shim and the case. It was not easy to get the case to accept solder but use lots of flux and heat it well. Works consistently now.

[MKA]

That makes sense.  I will look at that. 

[MKA]

So I got back to this.   I started looking at used replacement switches and realized there is both a metal and a plastic bezel switch.   Wanting to know which was correct, I found the topic here of course:

https://forum.e-bodies.org/interior/6/70-e-body-map-light-switch-question/18100/msg233414#msg233414

Embedded within the topic was the grounding strap unmolested and quite clearly mine is molested.  Pic 1 and 2 below.  Which led me to my grounding strap had been manipulated to go to the vacuum on the heater box but box being plastic it's not a ground.  Proper fit for the strap is back to the dash between the dash and the ac bezel (3rd pic)

Viola the map light works both ways.   Towards engine, off except when doors open.  Towards driver with a slight shift back (unique to my aging switch I'm sure) equals on. Last pic to show off my led .  I will probably never use it again.

This place is awesome. The answer is either here or it's here   



Now back to that former topic of which map light bezel, plastic or chrome goes with which car.  My car is an ac car and had the chrome (possibly switched but it works) and Jim's car is non ac and has plastic.   Opposite of the prior conclusions and I don't see where the tie in to ac car is relevant.  Just starting something because I don't want to switch my bezel.   

[ZippyZoo]

FWIW - my '71 vert came with the chrome metal bezel while a 72 hardtop I parted had a plastic bezel.