Engine Oil

[Shane Kelley]

I have seen few cam lobes go down over the years on other peoples or customer cars. I have bought a couple cars with some round lobes. Was the reason because of oil? I don't think anyone can definitely say. I personally have never had a problem myself. But I always run premium oil in my hot rods. I run my cars pretty hard and it gives me a great piece of mind knowing I have done everything I can to help the motor live another day.

Here's what Comp Cams says about it.

Engine Oil Selection
As we touched on earlier, another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of engine oil. Simply put, today's engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils; however these changes to the oil have only made life tougher on your flat tappet camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically the reduction of the important anti-wear additives such as zinc and phosphorus, which help break-in and overall camshaft life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend oil with the proper level of "ZDDP", Zinc Dialkyl Dithiosphosphate additive fortification. Recent market trends and misinformation have led to a new and adverse side effect known as "Overloading on ZDDP". When overloading on ZDDP, the additive can actually cause blocking of other important additives, such as friction modifiers or detergent agents. It is imperative that the ZDDP level is carefully specified and blended to correct concentrations.

Engine Oil Supplements & Additives
Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated upon installation will
guarantee that they are protected during the critical start-up of your newly-built engine. COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (COMP Cams® Part #153), and it is available in several different size containers for engine builder convenience. COMP Cams® also has a line of Break-In Oils (COMP Cams® Part #1590 [10w30] and #1595 [20w50]) which have a proprietary formula that includes the proper amount of critical additives, including ZDDP (Zinc & Phosphorus), Molybdenum, detergents and high grade base oil to give you the most optimum oil for the break-in and long-term running of all your purposefully chosen performance engine components. If you have a preferred oil with which you feel comfortable, we strongly recommend the use of COMP Cams® Break-In Oil Additive (COMP Cams® Part #159) during break-in. While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This proprietary blend of anti-wear ZDDP fortification, anti-fiction Molybdenum, and extreme pressure additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been forced to remove from off-the-shelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best "insurance policy" you can buy, and are the first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft

This is what Driven HR1 (Joe Gibbs Racing) says about their oil.

STORAGE PROTECTION - Uses the same oil additive technology developed for the U.S. Military for storing and shipping their combat equipment. Protects against rust and corrosion so your engine is protected even when it's not running.

HIGH ZINC CONTENT - Higher levels of Zinc (ZDDP) than regular passenger car oils. Delivers proper anti-wear protection for older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines.

CAMSHAFT WEAR PROTECTION - Superior camshaft wear protection chemistry. The same wear protection found in Driven Racing Oil which has powered Joe Gibbs Racing to multiple NASCAR Championships.

[chargerdon]

Ok, Im not sold but you have done a good job of scaring me.   

Sure zinc and phosphorous levels which helped prevent cam wear especially in flat tappet older engines are now heavily reduced due to possible damage to catalytic converters.   Still, 40+ years of technology to me says that while zinc is missing, the improved technology provides an oil that is probably better than the old with zinc.  Back in the 60's you were LUCKY to get over 75,000 miles without an engine overhaul.   Heck 40 years ago they didn't have synthetic oils !   

However, if i use a quality 10W-30 full synthetic oil at about $4 a quart when on sale (that is what is currently in my 360), and then add in some zinc/phosporous such as in Rislone Engine Oil Zinc supplement, then i should have the best of both worlds for only about $8 extra for the Rislone Zinc supplement.   It also states  Im chosing Rislone because it is readily available at the major (advance, Autozone, etc) part stores and Comp Cams break in oil, and GM EOS isnt in my area.   Neither is Valvoline VR1 readily available except in racing shops and its expensive..    Also Rislone states "makes new oils work in older engines" not that it is a engine building use.   


Opinions on this route ?   

[chargerdon]

another question...

I found this chart:
Listed here are the current specifications for maximum amounts of additives to achieve the API ratings. P is phosphorus, Zn is zinc, and B is boron. Each figure is total parts per million of additives. These can also be roughly expressed in percentages by multiplying by .0001 (1301 PPM = .13 percent, 994 PPM = .099 percent)

API   P   Zn   B
SJ   1301   1280   151
CI-4   1150   1374   83
SL   994   1182   133
CJ-4   4819   1014   26
SM   770   939   127

Article also explains that "s" means spark engines and "c" means compression..i.e. diesels.    The second letter is the service level designation standard and that the go up...   So,   SA would mean early standards and SN the latest.   Here SJ shows the highest level of zine and that many engine builders require a minimum of 1200 so SJ (1280 is a little over that) over that.   

Looking in my tractor supply I found Castrol GTX High Mileage Synthetic was api ratings of : SN, SM, SL, SJ     SN is the latest but it also says SJ.   SO DOES THIS MEAN it has the 1380 show in the chart or was lower...???????   I.e good oil for flat tappet or not.   5qt was only $22.95.   

[Chryco Psycho]

do you have the specs for SN
I would contact Castrol , in reality you cannot meet both SJ & SN

[blown motor]

I found this information. Note that it's from 2006, I don't know if formulas have changed.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/oil-w-zinc-content-recommended-for-older-engines.138386/

[chargerdon]

Ive sent an email to Castrol...will see what they reply

[chargerdon]

Here is the emails with Castrol.   They didnt exactly answer my question of how can their High Mileage Synthetic list both SN and SJ API rating??  however here is their response:

"Contactus@BP com <contactus@bp.com>
To:
torockio@yahoo.com

Oct 18 at 9:30 AM


Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

Castrol GTX Magnatec does contain a zinc additive. 

Engines that have flat tappet cams are very small in number today and will generally require more zinc than is contained in today's motor oils.

Castrol GTX Magnatec performance has never been examined in these type of engines since they are very much niche in the market. 

In turn our recommendation would be to use an oil with more zinc to ensure protection.  If the engine is a stock engine and not significantly modified for higher valve spring loads, Castrol EDGE 5W-50 contains extra Zinc. 

If valve spring loads have been significantly altered beyond stock design additional supplemental zinc beyond what was contained in motor oils when these engines were mainstream may be necessary.

Thank you again for contacting Castrol, we value your patronage!
Castrol Consumer Relations

Ticket: https://ccrdesk.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/22251

Hide original message
On Tue, 17 Oct at 8:06 PM , Donald Torockio <torockio@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi

Can you tell me if any of your Castrol oils contain enough zinc (zddp) to protect the flat tappet valves in my high performance 1974 Dodge Challenger with a modified flat tappet 360 cubic inch engine.

I was looking at an oil industry zinc content explanation of the API service levels.   

This chart says that SJ oils contain 1300 ppm phosphorus, and 1280 ppm zinc and that SM and SN contain less than half of that amount.   Looking at the labels on your Castrol GTX High Mileage Synthetic 10W-30 oil, it shows API ratings of : SN, SM, SL, SJ.   This is confusing to men as far as zinc is concerned.     

Which level of Zinc is it??  Is this oil good for a flat tappet high performance engine?? 

Thank you
Sincerely



My interpretation is that they are recommending Castrol Edge as their highest zinc content, and PLUS adding in a zinc additive...

 

[RUNCHARGER]

Yes: I admire their honesty.