Power steering pulley knocking noise

[kawahonda]

I have had a rattling/knocking noise from my engine area upon the first 5-10 minutes of a start. I notice after I usually drive to where I'm going it's gone. I've been unsuccessful in pinpointing it with a stethoscope so I figured the noise is likely coming from the pulley system--things I cannot get my stethoscope on.

Today I removed the power steering belt, fired up the car, and no noise. So I've found the culprit being the power steering pulley.

I'm going to retest tomorrow to confirm, but I'm fairly sure I've found it. Some things I've noticed:

1) The power steering pulley sits inwards (towards the cabin) visibly more than the crank pulley. They are not aligned. Not sure if they are supposed to be. Once the belt is hooked up, it makes sense that it's going to put frontward pressure on the power steering pulley, causing the oscillating knock sound, especially since the pulley is not perfectly round.

2) The power steering pulley has shaft play which I assume is very normal. I can make it "knock" by pulling on it in and out. I believe it's this "knock" noise that I'm hearing.

3) My power steering works superb, doesn't leak, etc.

4) I can spin the pulley by hand and don't noice any noises or issues.

5) The pulley as I've mentioned is not perfectly balanced and is a little out of round.

How do I proceed with a fix? I don't think the whole thing needs to come out for a rebuild, but maybe an adjustment/alignment of some sort is in order.

Power Steering Pulley Knocking Sound

[kawahonda]

Here's a really good video that may shed more light. Could use your guys' input. Maybe a rebuild or a new OER reman is in order?

Power Steering Pulley Noise and Wear

[303 Mopar]

That's loose as a goose!

[edison1970]

One of mine was like that. When I took it apart, there was a clip missing that prevents the shaft from moving in and out. Don't know if it broke or someone else left it out.  I couldn't find any pieces in the pump. It also didn't come in the rebuilding kit.

[kawahonda]

Do you guys think I should replace the pulley as well?

So far, I guess I should order an OER reman pump and a shim kit.

Do I need special tools to install and remove a pulley?

[edison1970]

Pulley should be reusable. Even if bent they are easy to straighten. If you replace it, I would be interested in buying it from you.

[kawahonda]

Good to know. I've never rebuilt a power steering pump before, so I have no idea what's involved! My guess is that paying someone like Totally Auto will be more expensive than the cost of a $80 OER reman unit. Mine is the "A" shape, not the rarer whatever one it's called one.

Is there something special about my power steering pump? Certain date codes or whatever where I should really try to reuse-build it?

Good to know that what you guys are seeing is not correct.

I'm also wondering if there should be a shim. I would order a shim kit too, because I'd like to get the power steering pump pulley as close as possible parallel to the crank pulley. Right now it almost seems like it's 1/8" set back. Shouldn't it have a shim from the factory?

Without it shimmed, I would imagine it puts more wear on the pump, and whola, this is what we end up with over time.

[kawahonda]

I measured a 1.8mm offset from the PS pulley to the crankshaft pulley. Is this in-spec or should be shimmed to bring this together closer?

What is the spec shaft play? I believe that the manual implies that "some play is normal", but doesn't list any details.

Here is the only rebuild kit I could find. Looks like some basic stuff:
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiv3bS9y6LgAhWGVg0KHYMrBBsYABAJGgJxYg&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESEeD2zLmLGgG9-tJx6vUaAQTN&sig=AOD64_2Gfbsio8j328WdszO_pUfNIVVTtQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwjngqy9y6LgAhXnSt8KHe0CAKEQ9aACCFI&adurl=

Not sure what the next step here. I guess just doing a total dissemble and to assess.

If I find something that needs to be replaced that isn't in the rebuild kit, I'm going to assume that I should just buy a reman:
https://www.classicindustries.com/product/all-years/dodge/challenger/parts/ps6159.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-4LmLD9AQsOV8fsIVRGNVbvVsaNJpSBIm3KktNWeopXbJHM-T6p7jRoCWIYQAvD_BwE

What's the difference of the reman vs what I have? Aren't they the same exact thing from an originality perspective?

Sorry, I don't know anything about PS pumps, so I'm curious what exactly I will likely need when I tear it apart.

[kawahonda]

Tore it apart and it's mostly resembled and restored.

Nothing was missing. Nothing was amiss.

I'm getting what appears about 1/8" max of thrust play. Seems to be within spec.....same as before...

What I'd like to do is align the power steering so that it is mounted about 1.5mm forward in order to better align with the other belts. Is there the "right" way to do this, or just using some washers is correct? How much spacers do I need?

The reason I ask is that one of my bolts that I removed (and quickly reinserted) is a damn water jacket bolt. How much water do I need to remove in order for it to not burst out at me?

[kawahonda]

I take it there are no Saginaw pump experts here?

Here are my measurements:

Thrust play is .020". Oscillation wobble range of pulley is .030". Pulley is about 1.8mm behind crank pulley.

Not sure what is spec or not spec.

I am 85% sure the knocking noise is coming from this pump before rebuild.

[kawahonda]

Does anyone have any recommendations are where to get a new pulley? At this point, I don't care if it's aftermarket as long as its black!

[tman]

You don't have a pic of yours so this is where I found one for me. 

http://store.440source.com/Power-Steering/products/20/

[kawahonda]

Mine looks like that (the keyed one) but those are specific to RB and B blocks. The offset must be different and would require a shimming kit that I think may shim the whole darn pump. Between doing that and just running a bolt-on aftermarket pulley that's ready to go I'd rather take the latter...

[Brads70]

Another source?
https://bouchillonperformance.com/power-steering-pulleys

[kawahonda]

Yeah, same deal there.

No one reproduces the small block PS pulley, which is quite ridiculous!

Only reason I can't drive my car going on 3 weeks now is because there isn't a pulley available.

I'll keep chugging along. For now the pulley is with my dad and he's going to try to straighten it (prob won't happen) and he's going to take some measurements of it so I can begin the search of a non-exact OE pulley...maybe some generic one off summit may due if the size is right.

Or maybe I'll just get the damn B and RB block one (not correct) and buy this spacer kit:

https://www.manciniracing.com/sapostpubosp.html

$100 seems a lot for a pulley setup though.