Problems with 440 Source Stroker kit.

[usraptor]

Let me begin by saying I have the utmost confidence in my engine builder.  I won't go into details but he has a very reputable reputation in the racing and engine building community.  So if you're going to tell me he doesn't know what he's talking about or get another builder, save your comments and move onto the next post.  When I had my engine built I bought a 440 Source 512CI Stroker kit before I talked to him.  When I took it to him to install he told me at the time he was not a fan of 440 Source parts, etc.  However, he built the short block anyway with a Lunati cam I also provided.  I finished the long block with a Holley Dominator intake, QuickFuel Carb, Promax aluminum heads and TTI headers and exhaust and it ran like a scalded ape.  However, it did have a very faint knock.  I had several people listen to it plus my builder and nobody could pinpoint the cause.  Most thought it was rocker/ valve train noise.  When putting a stethoscope up to the oil pan you couldn't hear it so I continued to drive it.

This winter I decided to do what I should have done to start with and have the guts taken out of the 440 matching nos. block and put them into a non numbers matching block so the engine went back to my builder for the swap.  I stopped by the shop today and he told and showed me what he was sure was causing the knock.   He said in his opinion the pistons were probably off the shelf junk and mismatched to the crank and rods.  He told me about some hot and cold measurements he took of the pistons that he wasn't happy about but I honestly don't remember the details.  Anyway he explained that because of the long Stroker rods the pistons had a very short skirt which was probably causing them to rock and rub on the outside edge of each cylinder at the 3 or 9 o'clock position.  He showed me the block and you could clearly see that at the 3 and 9 0'clock position in the bore it looked like somebody had polished the cylinder wall.   The rest of the cylinder still had its hatch marks and looked normal.  Also, the bottom edge of the outboard each  piston skirt had very slight wear marks.  The rest of the engine looked perfect.  He said he wouldn't put it back together with those pistons and recommended getting custom built pistons.  I have no idea what custom build pistons will cost but I imagine it won't be cheap.  So my question is, does anybody have any recommendation for any "off the shelf" pistons by a reputable company that will work with this set up and not cost me an arm and a leg?

The other alternative if custom pistons are going to be too expensive is to junk the 440 Source Stroker kit and got with another Stroker kit altogether.  If that ends up being the viable alternative, does anybody have recommendations?

[Chryco Psycho]

I do not have another option for the pistons for you . I have built a number of the 440 Source 440 / 512 engines & I have never had a knock problem , could be a bad batch of pistons , everyone has a bad day or part slip through . the pistons are really not that short compared to stroker Furd Or chev builds or even the 400 383/ 400 block builds where the oil ring cover the wrist pin
I will see what I can find , as a replacement .

[usraptor]

Thanks Chyrco

[Brads70]

I got my 451" stroker kit from Muscle Motors, pistons were Ross pistons. Maybe a place to look? 

[usraptor]

Thanks Brads 70.  I'll check them out.  As a side note, not that it makes any difference, the knock was present from day one and the engine only had approx 300 miles at tear down.

[Chryco Psycho]

Never had an issue like that with a 440 source piston , so either a skirt collapsed or the clearance was too great , yeah I know don't blame the builder but even they have bad days

[RUNCHARGER]

I was thinking wrong clearance is a possibility as well. Anyway it sounds like you need new pistons anyway so you might as well order them. I like CP but Ross and Diamond make good stuff too as well as a few other choices I'm sure.
If there's a problem in 300 miles I think you were lucky to tear it down actually.

[Topcat]

I got my 451" stroker kit from Muscle Motors, pistons were Ross pistons. Maybe a place to look? 

Last I heard, they went out of business.

[Cuda Cody]

I've built a 440 stroker engine and it runs fantastic.  Not sure what happened with your parts, maybe a bad batch of pistons?   

[Brads70]

I got my 451" stroker kit from Muscle Motors, pistons were Ross pistons. Maybe a place to look? 

Last I heard, they went out of business.

Not sure web site and facebook page are still up? I wasn't necessarily mentioning them to buy from just that they used Ross pistons in my kit, and to maybe check out ross pistons as a source for replacement pistons. 

[303 Mopar]

If you are having a professional build your engine, maybe he should provide the parts he thinks are best and therefore is accountable if it goes south again. One of the issues I see is people go to a professional, bring their own parts and tell the guy to build it. Then when issues arise the builder blames the parts you bought.

[Topcat]

I got my 451" stroker kit from Muscle Motors, pistons were Ross pistons. Maybe a place to look? 

Last I heard, they went out of business.

Not sure web site and facebook page are still up? I wasn't necessarily mentioning them to buy from just that they used Ross pistons in my kit, and to maybe check out ross pistons as a source for replacement pistons. 

Might be their machine shop is closed.

[bennydodge]

I got my 451" stroker kit from Muscle Motors, pistons were Ross pistons. Maybe a place to look? 

Last I heard, they went out of business.

Not sure web site and facebook page are still up? I wasn't necessarily mentioning them to buy from just that they used Ross pistons in my kit, and to maybe check out ross pistons as a source for replacement pistons. 

Yep, Ross pistons in my stroker. I too bought a stroker kit from Muscle motors back in 2001. I've never heard a strange noise or anything from my shortblock and it has been hammered on for sure(drag strip-street abuse lol). I built it myself but had all the machine work done by a good machine shop. They even mentioned that Ross pistons are great. A couple of years ago me and a buddy built a 493 stroker using a 440 source kit and we've had no problems with it so far.

[usraptor]

Usraptor, do you know actual cylinder diameter AND actual MEASURED matching piston diameter at manufacturer specified point on the pistons (especially the ones in the "polished" holes)(sorry if I missed this in your post)? I don't doubt that your machinist bored the  block to the correct size BUT if no one actually took the time to measure EACH piston......I only say this because I personally experienced a set of new 0.030 oversize pistons that were stamped 0.030 on the top (yes, all 8 of them) and THREE of them were STANDARD SIZED PISTONS!!! This was overlooked by the machine shop that bored the motor and the experienced mechanic that assembled it. That motor had a slight knock also before we tore it down and inspected it. This could easily get by everyone because we just tend to take for granted that new parts are right because 99.9%(debatable) of the time they are. Just my    jess

The bore is .030 and that's what I ordered from 440 Source.  Sorry I don't know the actual measurements.  He showed me the measurement on one piston and something was off but I don't remember what it was as he was talking measurements in thousands and the big difference between hot and cold and it didn't really compute with me.  FYI, all eight cylinders had the polished mark so I doubt there were just a few that were the standard size.  He said in all his years of engine building he had never saw another engine like mine when he tore it down.  He even had some of his suppliers look at it and they all agreed with him that there was something wrong with the pistons.

[Chryco Psycho]

Aonther possibility as a long shot but the bores could be too thin in the cylinder wall , & the block is distorting at .55 overbore