Trying to Stay Cool - FIXED!!!!

[Dmod1974]

If that's the case, then I doubt the block is the issue.  With an iron engine and a brass radiator the coolant is always going to look like crap when you're running flushing products straight or diluted with water. 

Starting with the basics, when did this all start?  Did it act up before the rebuild?  Or after?

You've gone through pretty much everything - I'm not convinced it's not tuning related at this point.  34 degrees is ideal at WOT on a performance engine, but under low load and cruise conditions you can and should be running much more advance.  10-15 degrees is not uncommon.  I'd get vacuum advance set up and see what happens.  My 408 ran noticeably better, cooler, and got much better fuel economy with total timing advance in the high 40's at cruising speed.  Properly dialed in, it will NOT detonate or hurt a thing.

The only other thing I can think of is to verify your pulley ratios are in fact correct.  If the fan and water pump are not spinning at the speed they should it'll tend to run hot no matter what you do.

[YellowThumper]

@Cudajason understood yes a bit "extreme" but mentioned because it is on the lower end of the cost spectrum.
Literally this would be the starting point for tracing issues.
Nothing worse than dropping another $500-$700 on radiator upgrades to find same issue remains.
That.... is what happend to me. In disgust I let the car sit for another year.
Wish you were closer, I would offer up the 26" one I am no longer using.
Now that your coolant is clear, is there someone who has a good larger radiator you could test with?

[Cudajason]

If that's the case, then I doubt the block is the issue.  With an iron engine and a brass radiator the coolant is always going to look like crap when you're running flushing products straight or diluted with water. 

Starting with the basics, when did this all start?  Did it act up before the rebuild?  Or after?

You've gone through pretty much everything - I'm not convinced it's not tuning related at this point.  34 degrees is ideal at WOT on a performance engine, but under low load and cruise conditions you can and should be running much more advance.  10-15 degrees is not uncommon.  I'd get vacuum advance set up and see what happens.  My 408 ran noticeably better, cooler, and got much better fuel economy with total timing advance in the high 40's at cruising speed.  Properly dialed in, it will NOT detonate or hurt a thing.

The only other thing I can think of is to verify your pulley ratios are in fact correct.  If the fan and water pump are not spinning at the speed they should it'll tend to run hot no matter what you do.

Hey @Dmod1974 all great questions.  The engine was last rebuilt 20 years ago. I tried a 26 inch rad in the past 5 years, the 22 inch is about that old.  The engine has always run 220 ish, so its not a new issue.

I should clarify that I have moved away from the locked out timing.  I think I am round 22 initial and 36 total right now.  I may try the vacuum advance.

I will say that the car performs really well, when its at 180 or below.  I have also used an AF meter and at last check the car was running a very rich 10.5

I thought rich was cool.

The pully idea is interesting, I have always just run what was on the car when I got it.  Maybe time to research pully sizes.

sigh I just don't know.


@YellowThumper I am slowly coming around to agreeing with your approach.

no one that I know of that has a spare 26 inch rad, I sold mine.  Thanks for the offer.

Hell at this point I may just find a junkyard engine and run that next year to see what happens.

Jason

[Alexcuda]

I have a spare 26" rad you can borrow. Located  in fonthill

[Dmod1974]

If that's the case, then I doubt the block is the issue.  With an iron engine and a brass radiator the coolant is always going to look like crap when you're running flushing products straight or diluted with water. 

Starting with the basics, when did this all start?  Did it act up before the rebuild?  Or after?

You've gone through pretty much everything - I'm not convinced it's not tuning related at this point.  34 degrees is ideal at WOT on a performance engine, but under low load and cruise conditions you can and should be running much more advance.  10-15 degrees is not uncommon.  I'd get vacuum advance set up and see what happens.  My 408 ran noticeably better, cooler, and got much better fuel economy with total timing advance in the high 40's at cruising speed.  Properly dialed in, it will NOT detonate or hurt a thing.

The only other thing I can think of is to verify your pulley ratios are in fact correct.  If the fan and water pump are not spinning at the speed they should it'll tend to run hot no matter what you do.

Hey @Dmod1974 all great questions.  The engine was last rebuilt 20 years ago. I tried a 26 inch rad in the past 5 years, the 22 inch is about that old.  The engine has always run 220 ish, so its not a new issue.

I should clarify that I have moved away from the locked out timing.  I think I am round 22 initial and 36 total right now.  I may try the vacuum advance.

I will say that the car performs really well, when its at 180 or below.  I have also used an AF meter and at last check the car was running a very rich 10.5

I thought rich was cool.

The pully idea is interesting, I have always just run what was on the car when I got it.  Maybe time to research pully sizes.

sigh I just don't know.


@YellowThumper I am slowly coming around to agreeing with your approach.

no one that I know of that has a spare 26 inch rad, I sold mine.  Thanks for the offer.

Hell at this point I may just find a junkyard engine and run that next year to see what happens.

Jason

I'd definitely verify the pulley diameters before going deeper.  Easy enough to do and requires no cost or parts removal.

Richer is generally cooler, but at low load you're not going to see crazy high EGT's from AFR in either direction anyways, and certainly not enough to make the car run hot. 

Ignition timing, on the other hand, can make things heat up quickly if it is too retarded.  This is why most header manufacturers advise against running coated headers during break in where the engine isn't dialed in and could be running too retarded.  Even at a high idle that can make the manifolds glow.

Vacuum advance only works during light load when the engine can tolerate, and frankly, needs more timing to run most efficient since you're generally lean and that requires more of a head start to get the mixture burning.  You're pig rich, but likely would still benefit from more timing at low load.

[jimynick]

Jesus, Jason, 22' initial seems like lots to me. How does it start when hot? I've got a 26" rad you can borrow to check with, but doesn't your car have a 22" rad opening? I forget, what fan are you also running? I've got a 7 blade clutch fan you could try if it'd fit the hole. Let me know if you want to try them. 

[Cudajason]

I have a spare 26" rad you can borrow. Located  in fonthill

Thank you sir!  Very generous. 

Jesus, Jason, 22' initial seems like lots to me. How does it start when hot? I've got a 26" rad you can borrow to check with, but doesn't your car have a 22" rad opening? I forget, what fan are you also running? I've got a 7 blade clutch fan you could try if it'd fit the hole. Let me know if you want to try them. 

@jimynick

I maybe wrong on the initial...been a while since I looked at it.

I do have a 22 rad opening, but used to run a 26 rad, so I already have holes to mount it.

I have a 5 blade asymmetrical clutch fan on it now, but also have a 7 Blade I can run (unless of course @blown motor come to pick it up).

Thanks for the offer if you are around the next few days I can swing by and pick it up.  I will also bring back your brake tools!  Give me a call when you have a few mins.

[blown motor]

Forgot about that! Mine is a 7 blade so I don't yours.

[Cudajason]

First off thanks to the always cool @jimynick (Ian) for the use of his extra 26in rad and shroud, he was even so kind as to drop it off to me.

I installed it today, pressure tested it as well, did I mention Ian is a hell of a guy, he showed up with a pressure tester to, not a tool everyone has!!!  The rad passed with flying colours, once I got the bottom hose tight!!!

Well I let the old girl idle in the drive way for 15 min, and it hit 190. I don't think that is very good, especially given it was a fairly cool day. When I shut it off you could see the water percolating in the coolant filter like before.

On the up side, the water seems to be a lot cleaner at this point. 

I was not running the shroud, but can get it installed if anyone thinks that will help (I assume it will).

Supposed to be nice the next week so I may try to road test it and see what happens.

Thoughts????

[blown motor]

190 is good. Cool day or not shouldn't matter. If the system is working right it should get up to temperature and stay there. The real test will be to give it a run, get on it a few times and see if the temperature holds or climbs.

[jimynick]

I think Murray has a good point there. Take the old gal out on the 401 and give 'er a rip! Next thing I'd try is a smaller fan pulley. Glad to hear the rad holds water, too! 

[Jay Bee]

I was taught that shrouds make a noticeable difference. Put that on before your 401 run.

[dodj]

I was taught that shrouds make a noticeable difference. Put that on before your 401 run.

I haven't been on it very often but I find driving on the 401 more frustrating than running. I used to think Thunder Bay had all the idiot drivers.....

I agree with Murray, idling up to 190 is perfect. If it were me, I'd let it idle for another 15 after getting to 190...if it stays at 190, I'll bet you're good to go.

Still go through the pulley dia's.

[anlauto]

I was taught that shrouds make a noticeable difference. Put that on before your 401 run.

I haven't been on it very often but I find driving on the 401 more frustrating than running. I used to think Thunder Bay had all the idiot drivers.....

I was on it yesterday afternoon...on a SUNDAY it was jammed packed, stop and go all through the Mississauga to Milton corridor ...on a frickin Sunday...   If your car is going to overheat, the 401 would be a good place to test it 

[Cudajason]

190 is good. Cool day or not shouldn't matter. If the system is working right it should get up to temperature and stay there. The real test will be to give it a run, get on it a few times and see if the temperature holds or climbs.

Thanks fellas, that makes me feel a little better.  I will put the shroud on and take it for a drive this weekend.

Jason