Challenger kills nine people....

[MKA]

This chain wouldn't  be complete without Florida Man and Toyota on Toyota violence.   I will say florida man did have his gun properly secured until he stopped singing and almost casually waited too let loose 11 rounds thru his side window and windshield.  Oh florida man.    

https://autos.yahoo.com/florida-man-shoots-own-windows-213700211.html

[JH27N0B]

You know we can't really debate this much without getting political which is not allowed.
I must mention though Chicago had essentially a gun ban for many decades but the scotus ruling in 2008 threw that out.  The highest homicide rates on record were in the early 90s when it was in effect though.
These days people mostly gang members arrested on gun charges here are released back in the street almost before the ink is dry on the police reports, and many are later arrested again after a murder or other violent crime. Don't worry about that we need yet more gun laws. Makes sense to many but not me, but whatever.
The reports on the guy in Vegas who killed 9 people's record tells me all I need to know.  We as a society have made the choice to not hold people accountable for their actions even if it's obvious they are a danger to society. We've made our bed and now we need to lie down in it. We've also incentivized people to have children when they aren't fit to be parents by supporting them.  As a result we have many who get raised on the street by gang members and therefore develop no respect for others or laws.
A recent tragedy in Chicago is a perfect example. A 14 or 15 year old kid was out in the middle of the night with an older gang member shooting at street lights or something.  Cops arrived and chased the kid, in an alley the kid turned, gun in hand, cop fired, kid died.  Bodycam showed the kid was trying to toss gun through hole in fence when he got shot.
Big protests soon followed.  Protesting against a society where a kid is out in the middle of the night getting training in shooting a gun by gangs and where were his parents?
Of course not.  They were protesting calling for the cops head, he should have known in that dark alley that armed kid was turning to toss the gun, not to shoot at the cop! He murdered that poor child!
That's why I say we as a society have made the choice to create a world where situations like reckless driving and gang shootings are daily occurrences and we should stop the hand wringing because we are responsible.
I hope that isn't too political as I'm not pointing fingers at the fools on one side of the aisle or fools on the other side, rather challenging everyone to look in the mirror.

[Filthy Filbert]

Interesting. Using the stats from the above two posts comparing  to the  kinda shows that the CDN stricter gun control laws seem to work 

Correlation vs Causation.   

You cannot say the difference in gun murder rates are directly because of gun control.   

What you can say, is that fewer gun control laws did not cause a reduction in murder.  You cannot say that more gun control laws DID cause a reduction in murder.

Here in Ohio, gun control advocates said that passing a concealed carry law, and allowing citizens to obtain a permit to carry a concealed handgun would "lead to violence, and blood in the streets.  Murder will skyrocket"

What actually happened, is that murder rates AND violent crime -- assault, rape, etc, went down after the conceal carry law was passed.

But, we cannot say that the reduction was CAUSED by allowing conceal carry.   We can only say that passing conceal carry did NOT cause the rates to go up.


Also, I'd just like to point out, the 30k number is total gun deaths.   Over half of which are suicide or accidental.   Actual gun murders is much lower.   And, around 80% of the total number of gun murders come from about 5 cities.   The rest of the US is a totally different picture from the gun crime in those cities.

[MoparCarGuy]

Speed limits stop speeders about as well as gun control laws stop criminals from having guns in states restricting guns or using guns to commit crimes.
Criminals do not obey laws. That is the definition of a criminal, right?

The U.S. federal laws for committing crimes with a firearm are very punitive and have long jail sentences. Many jurisdictions at the local level in the U.S. do not prosecute these crimes at the federal level and, after some plea-bargaining and other shenanigans, end up putting these criminals right back on the street. If they did prosecute federally, many of these criminals would be put away for a good portion of their lives and, as convicted felons, they would become prohibited possessors unable to possess a firearm. The rate of recidivism in the U.S. is unbelievably high. That, coupled with a revolving-door judicial system, allows the same group of people to continue to commit crimes against society over and over again.

What laws do you want to enact that you believe would stop lawbreakers?

[jimynick]

Interesting. Using the stats from the above two posts comparing  to the  kinda shows that the CDN stricter gun control laws seem to work 

Don't you believe it Alan! My SIL works on a "Guns and Gangs" squad and he told me that of the approx. 760 shootings they looked at last year, ONE was with a registered gun. See, it's illegal to shoot people, let alone worry about the gun being registered.

[Brads70]

Thought I logged onto the Toronto Star or CNN with a careless/irresponsible headline /title like that.   

[Cuda416]

Those numbers are apples to oranges for the simple reason that most gun deaths in the USA are self inflicted, i.e. suicide. Can we find how many fate car crashes are intentional versus suicide? Then there is the simple fact we have almost 10 times the number of people...

Silly math....

[anlauto]

Thought I logged onto the Toronto Star or CNN with a careless/irresponsible headline /title like that.   

click bait 

[70 Top Banana]

A lot of good comment here. That said if that Challenger were full of gas, running in the driveway, it would not kill anyone. A human idiot had to get in it, put it in gear and operate it in a manner that killed and injured people.

Same issue with a spoon. It can sit in a kitchen drawer for years  and do nothing until someone uses it to scoop gallons of ice cream and make you fat! I guess we should ban spoons along with guns!

[jimynick]

"I guess we should ban spoons along with guns!"  And THEN where would you get the fatheads who're always trying to ban guns? LOL