OMG ! Did you see this in Dallas today ? UPDATE

[Filthy Filbert]

Just because you, on the ground, can very clearly see what's happening, does not mean the people in the air can see what's happening.     Flying a plane is not like driving a car.  You have to be aware of your 3D space, to include "below" you or through the floor where there is no visibility.     

Planes can also have huge blind spots.  Did you know that U-2 spy planes require a chase car on landing, so that a spotter in the chase car can assist the pilot by calling out his altitude, and telling him when to flare for his landing?  Because the pilot cannot see the ground in his seat!

The Kingcobra was in a high bank turn, so the B-17 was only visible "through the floor" to him until it was too late.    The Kingcobra also came in from behind and to the left of the B-17, so they had no clue he was coming in at them.  That's why it looks like "nobody even tried to evade the collision" 

Y'all are sure quick to judge and place blame when you have ZERO facts about what happened.    So quick to call out negligence of the pilot. 

What if:
there was a medical emergency and the pilot of the kingcobra was unconscious?
there was a flight control malfunction and the pilot of the kingcobra had no control?
there was a miscommunication between the controllers and the aircrews?
the B-17 crew missed their mark and were 10 seconds late in making their pass?
one of the aircraft was at the wrong altitude by 500 or 1000 feet--possibly by an out of calibration altimeter?

We don't know what happened.  The aircraft mishap investigators will find out the answers to all the questions but it won't be fast.  They can reconstruct the aircraft and find the one broken bolt that caused loss of control, or the one cracked turbine blade that took out an engine.  They will interview the air controllers to understand what the original plan was, where it broke down, transcribe the radio communications, etc. 

[anlauto]

  So quick to call out negligence of the pilot. 

I have no clue about flying a plane, but I never once made any statement that would infer negligence of either pilot

[Filthy Filbert]

  So quick to call out negligence of the pilot. 

I have no clue about flying a plane, but I never once made any statement that would infer negligence of either pilot

No, but there are comments in this thread calling this manslaughter and blaming a "piss poor fighter pilot" 

[JH27N0B]

Notices like this are being sent out to the professional pilot community.
If professional pilots are being reminded they shouldn't speculate based on the limited information available, why should non pilots who don't much about the art of flying speculate?
As I mentioned before, these exhibitions are carefully planned and choreographed with different planes assigned different patterns and different altitudes to keep them at a safe distance from each other, and a coordinator called an "air boss" is on the ground acting as somewhat of a conductor using a radio to rely instructions.  All that can be said that isn't speculating is that something went terribly wrong this time and we won't know if someone was at the wrong altitude, flying off their assigned pattern, the air boss messed up, something else, or more likely a combination of factors, until a full investigation is completed.

[RzeroB]

We all can speculate based on what we see in the videos, but what we don't see is the "big picture" which put those two airplanes in the same place at the same time. As a retired military pilot I've witnessed a number of accidents first hand and helped investigate one other. The skills and resources of the people who investigate these accidents are truly amazing. They will examine the evidence, reconstruct the accident and determine the most probable cause. In this case, with so much video evidence available, I'd say they will figure it out with 99% accuracy (there's always that 1% due to unknown variables).

[anlauto]

Sad thing is, the final outcome of their investigation never seems to make the "news" at least not up here, so we're all left wondering....if anybody hears any legitimate updates, I would love to see them added to this thread 

[dodj]

I can't imagine they'll ever find the answers to that one... very sad day

You ever watch "MayDay"? They have some pretty clever people investigate crashes.

Yea, I watch that quite a bit actually....

Just before you go on a trip?....lol


As to the warbird crash...those of you that may know, Like JH27NOB, how long would you expect an investigation into something like this take? A year?

[RzeroB]

There are a lot of variables which determine how quickly (or slowly) the NTSB's can complete it's investigation. It can easily take a year or more for their final report on the accident to be published. However, usually within a month or two they will issue a "preliminary report" but it mostly just states "what" happened and not "why" it happened. When their final report is published, it's usually an open-source document and made available in the public domain.

[BFM_Cuda]

Sad day for the aviation community. Hate to see the loss of life and the rare aircraft.

It was a very congested airspace and looks like the P-63 pilot lost sight of the B-17 in his turn. The P-63 doesn't have a large field of view.

[dodj]

The P-63 doesn't have a large field of view.

I wasn't even aware of the existence of the P-63. I knew about the P-39 Airacobra though..assume it was a design evolution?

[anlauto]

They've released the names of the six people deceased 
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/us/dallas-air-show-collision-who-are-the-6-victims-killed/ar-AA145RtX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=c00d29ec62684512aeff271f6b0c7584

[Brads70]

Such a sad lost of life and of irreplaceable historic aircraft.      

[RzeroB]

That is a particularly chilling pic you posted Alan ... as a pilot, that just gives me goosebumps and makes me cringe ...

It's almost incomprehensible to me how the fighter hit the bomber so squarely so to cause such catastrophic unrecoverable damage.
The odds of them coming together and merging in such a direct hit are extremely remote. Incredibly bad luck put them both in the same space at the exact same moment.   

[dodj]

That is a particularly chilling pic you posted Alan ... as a pilot, that just gives me goosebumps and makes me cringe ...

It's almost incomprehensible to me how the fighter hit the bomber so squarely so to cause such catastrophic unrecoverable damage.
The odds of them coming together and merging in such a direct hit are extremely remote. Incredibly bad luck put them both in the same space at the exact same moment.

Ya, I'm not a pilot, but a WWII buff. Seen lots of photos where B-17's and Lanc's took a lot of damage and made it home...amazing..maybe wrong word...that such an instantly fatal hit could occur in peacetime.

[JH27N0B]

Blancolario is a Youtube channel hosted by an Airline pilot who is also an active general aviation pilot, and does videos on airplane accidents and incidents.
He does a very thorough analysis of the event and plan for the show, and the P63 airplane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C342dfNPCyg
As for how long the accident report takes the NTSB to release, for the B17 909 tragedy in 2019, the report was published about 1-1/2 years later.  The report for this one will likely take a similar time to be completed.