Quarantine or not?

[Cuda Cody]

I did not know Sweden took a different approach.  They resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html

[JS29]

Go figure! 

[torredcuda]

I did not know Sweden took a different approach.  They resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html

I read they were seeing a recent spike but overall doesn`t sound like it went all that bad with limited lock downs.

[RUNCHARGER]

The Sweden method appears to be having the same results as in Canada. The Virus has ravaged quite a few old folks homes but no worse than what has happened in Sweden. Canada currently treats it's old folks as the unwanted anyway and I think it's leaders aren't too worried about loosing a few old folks.

[7212Mopar]

Excellent point Alan. 1WILD R/T, maybe it has spread wider than expected but that doesn't make the lockdowns pointless. How much farther would it have spread without lockdowns? I, for one, believe that things would have been much, much worse.

The worst is still to come and it is not the virus infection but the aftermath of economic meltdown. Some countries can survive it better than others given their economic size. Poor countries killing what's left of their small economies are just kicking the can down the road, essentially committing suicide to save themselves from the virus killing them.

This is a new problem for us so nobody knows what the right answer is, but yet it seems world leaders are putting their full trust in the formal media and WHO.

Personally I think that herd immunity is the way to go especially for poor countries with a younger population. It makes more sense to quarantine the vulnerable than everybody and killing the economy. What is certain is that you don't stop the virus by a lockdown, only pause it but you will kill the economy by doing so.

Not much the smaller economies can do when the big ones are idling. Even China restarting they still depends on the US. No US orders, their factories will never reach full speed. The World largely depends on us.

[Brads70]

Here is some of my reply to an email I got about an article about someone suggesting purposely injecting a small amount of the virus into people as a possible cure.....

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/crazy-idea-of-infecting-volunteers-with-covid-19-to-boost-herd-immunity-is-gathering-support/ar-BB138OzT?li=AAggNb9

Quote, ( my reply)
"  As I understand it,( but I'm no doctor?) When you get any " vaccine " flu shot etc... what they are doing is injecting you with a small amount of the virus . Then the idea is your immune system kicks in and builds the antibody and  builds your immunity. So I have no idea if this article is a good idea or a bad idea? I do believe though that the solution is not us sitting at home for months/years more on end. There is no "solution" to that. I get and support " flattening the curve"  to not overwhelm the medical system, we have done that,  time for a actual solution. If it will take a year or more for a possible vaccine, then we can't wait. "Herd immunity" seems to be the only solution so far.....
With the flu shot  what I've read is they are just guessing  which strain so most of the time it is ineffective, some times they do guess right and it works . As I understand things covid 19 will also mutate and some reports of it doing so already in China with a smaller second wave.  So if it takes a year to develop a vaccine for this exact strain, it likely will have mutated  long before then and the original strain will have worked its way thru the population and naturally built the herd immunity and disappeared.  I say open things up in a controlled way as to do our best to not overwhelm the medical system, except for the most vulnerable ( elderly, sick, etc..) do the best we can for them. For well over 90% of the people this is not fatal and the symptoms for most that get sick are not severe enough to cause hospitalization     

I'm leaning towards them actually getting a reliable test to see if you have had it. ( I suspect I have, as I was really sick around Christmas )  I have donated blood regularly since I was 18. Then if I did have it my blood could be given to someone really sick with it as a possible help/cure. I've read a few articles saying this works and is not a new solution, but rather centuries old idea/cure.. I think this is where the solution lies. Build up the blood supply with antibodies to treat the really sick.

Heck, I'm worth more dead than alive anyhow! HAHA Just ask my wife! LOL "
End quote

[soundcontrol]

The Sweden method appears to be having the same results as in Canada. The Virus has ravaged quite a few old folks homes but no worse than what has happened in Sweden. Canada currently treats it's old folks as the unwanted anyway and I think it's leaders aren't too worried about loosing a few old folks.

We (Sweden) got a lot of deaths in old people because the virus got in to a lot of retirement homes in Stockholm pretty early.
Our curve seems to be flattening out now though.
Here is the curves right now, deaths per 100 000 people.
Horizontal is days since first death.
Pretty much the same as other countries, but with the difference that Sweden is still functioning pretty normally.
Not sure what is good or not, have to trust the experts.

[1 Wild R/T]

I'd say Sweden got it right...

[JS29]

 

[YellowThumper]

I'd say Sweden got it right...

"Getting it right" obviously is the target for everyone. Unfortunately there is not a singular answer for all. Population density is huge part of it. Along with general climate. How sound is the countries medical infrastructure? I agree with mitigation by separation. The level of which has to be decided by each government.
I have tired of the argument that Korea and China are the "models" to follow in how to quickly contain it. Do what we say or get shot dictatorship run countries are not models we live in. Every country has their allowable level of laws for population containment. This becomes an extremely difficult balancing act to not over step those freedoms.

[JH27N0B]

The media has certainly overblown this and caused an unnecessary amount of fear about Covid.
However, this disease is dangerous, it is more contagious than flu, and the death rate is higher.
It is possible for both those statements to be true.
This video is interesting, an interview with several ER physicians who contend that stay at home is too strict, and actually makes us less healthy, because being isolated keeps us from being exposed to germs and thus hurts our immune systems and makes us more likely to get sick-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=xfLVxx_lBLU
I have an issue with some of their statistics.  I don't think most testing so far has been random and therefore you can't use the data to get an estimate of the % of population that has been exposed.  Most tested felt ill and that motivated them to get tested.  I think to be accurate you'd need to test random samples, like 1 out of 10 of a city or county, then use that to extrapolate the data to the population as a whole.
Some data I've seen that I think in the end will end up being closest to the truth, is that around 1/2 of 1% of those infected die.  Worse than the flu for sure, but far less than many of the earlier dire estimates.
Time for the healthy to start getting back out with some precautions, open businesses, try to rebuild the economy, while the elderly and those with underlying health conditions stay cautious and away from unnecessary human contact.

[RUNCHARGER]

Unless they reliably tested 100% of the population any statistics are inaccurate.
I find it interesting they didn't close the stock markets but everything else has been pretty much shut down. Those in the know have made billions over the last 2 months.

[JS29]

Sheldon, You sound like me now. And our congress nor senate didn't until someone said something!   

[JH27N0B]

You don't have to test 100% to be accurate.  You'd need to test 100% to be perfect. Actuaries study statistics and come up with reasonably accurate estimates of life expectancy for example, otherwise insurance companies would never be able to sell life insurance or annuities. My point is, that if 10,000 people who have flu or cold symptoms get tested for Covid, I don't think you can extrapolate the numbers of positives in that group to estimate the entire population of an area. But that is what the doctors seemed to being saying in that video unless I misunderstood.  If you tested 10% of the entire population, the results could be used to derive a fairly accurate number for the entire population. In NY, they test pregnant women about to give birth, as it is important to know if a newborn is infected, and they are finding something like 20% test positive.  That number can be used to estimate the % of New York residents who are positive, that there is a good chance it's around 20%. 
Splitting hairs aside, I still agree with their point that locking everyone up does more harm than good at this point and those in good health should be allowed to get out and about again, and businesses reopen.
Correction, they found 15% of pregnant women tested positive for Covid 19, not 20%
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85965

[JH27N0B]

Here is some of my reply to an email I got about an article about someone suggesting purposely injecting a small amount of the virus into people as a possible cure.....

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/crazy-idea-of-infecting-volunteers-with-covid-19-to-boost-herd-immunity-is-gathering-support/ar-BB138OzT?li=AAggNb9

Quote, ( my reply)
"  As I understand it,( but I'm no doctor?) When you get any " vaccine " flu shot etc... what they are doing is injecting you with a small amount of the virus . Then the idea is your immune system kicks in and builds the antibody and  builds your immunity.

That is not really what a vaccine is.  A vaccine is injecting you with a virus that has been damaged or killed.  Therefore it can't infect you.  But your immune system recognizes the virus as a foreign invader and develops defenses to it.  Therefore, if you get exposed to the virus later, your body already is geared up to fight it and stops it in its tracks as you have developed immunity by your previously being exposed to it through the vaccine.
Injecting someone with live virus will make them sick, sort of like "chicken pox parties" where parents expose their kids to a kid who has chicken pox as it's best to get it over with when they are young.
With Covid 19 where a certain percentage of those infected get seriously ill, and some die, this seems like a really really bad idea!