Turkey and Covid?

[torredcuda]

New info has a lot of fully vaccinated people getting very sick and dying not just unvacinated.

[70 Challenger Lover]

Filthy filbert, there are many people who got vaccinated and died anyway or got Covid and had it really bad despite the vaccination. Likewise there are many unvaccinated people who get it and it's very mild.

One thing our medical experts seem to have stopped talking about is the need to exercise, eat right, take vitamins, stop smoking and drinking and find ways to reduce stress as well as other things that might put you into high risk (high blood pressure, obesity, etc.) Why aren't these things talked about anymore? They mean far more than a stupid cotton placebo mask. I haven't had so much as a cold in nearly ten years and it's not because I'm some genetic miracle.

Yes, people are dying but try to put it into perspective. 100k people plus died every year from the flu despite flu vaccinations. Now we don't count those deaths and just lump them into Covid stats. People die from car accidents, cancer, suicide, heart disease and so on. If you adjust the inflated numbers to what they should be, it's likely not the apocalypse we were warned about. There comes a point where we can do far more damage trying to protect society than if we just let it run it's course. In other words, the cure is worse than the disease.

Not being well versed in medicine, I'll go out on a limb here and ask if it's possible that the vaccinations caused Covid to mutate to other variants we are seeing now. Isn't that what happens with flu vaccinations every year. A new variety comes out so big pharma produces yet a new vaccination every flu season. And coincidentally they make huge new profits every time. Why don't we have boosters for other viral contagions like polio? Could it be that back then, they took their time and got that one right? So right that they damn near eliminated the disease. What incentive will big pharma have to eliminate Covid when they can sell billions of doses every quarter?

[anlauto]

Around here some of the best paying jobs are working in the public sector, government jobs etc....I can't believe that people are more willing to give up their great paying jobs, then to get vaccinated.... every night on the news you hear of more and more people being fired. It doesn't make sense to me   .... and you will NOT get any financial unemployment insurance from the Government either 

In my Province 87% of people over the age of 12 are fully vaccinated and 80% of people over that age of 5 have had at least one shot...

[dodj]

Wonder what the general population 'feeling' about polio vaccine and others was back in the mid 50's?
Was it just line up and take it? or was there lots of 'no one's going to tell me what to do'.

I hear this comparison often but I don't believe it's a good one.

1) Polio was far more devastating than Covid. Only a tiny percentage will get Covid and of that tiny percentage, only an even tinier percentage will die. And most who die are in the risk category of people who might very well have died from flu or pneumonia. Everyone was worried about polio back then but Covid concerns depend on political association which right there should be a clue that our chains are getting yanked by people with power over us.

2) with Covid, there was a mad rush to develop a vaccine. Then a mad rush to get it through testing. Then a mad rush to produce it (probably with components from China) and finally a mad rush to distribute it to the masses. All with government money being thrown their way and with the promise that the first company will benefit financially in a massive way. That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Right before Covid, people frequently commented that big pharma was mankind's greatest enemy. Now we trust the greedy bastards without question. In a few years, we may see tv commercials from attorneys like this: Did you take the Phizer Covid vaccination and later develop any of these medical conditions? If so, you may be entitled to financial compensation!

3) We can't really say what the Covid statistics are because the tests are grossly inaccurate and there is a huge push to error on the side of calling it "Covid related." They won't even call it Covid death. It's "related" which allows for wide discretion in labeling a death. In Ventura County where I worked, we were calling suicides, drug overdoses, fatal collisions, etc. "Covid related " because if the deceased might conceivably had Covid, there was large sums of government money to be had. Hospitals for instance got $100k for every person who entered the building with Covid. I personally know people who went to the E.R. for non-Covid reasons, never got tested but yet their discharge paperwork says they had Covid. Covid may be a real threat but there is a lot of fraud taking place.

4) there is far more government oversight than there was when polio was a threat. There shouldn't be. There is also a divide in this country that is probably as great as there was going into the civil war. Friendships have been ruined and families torn apart over political divide. I know of a few examples personally. Covid has made it far worse. It didn't have to be that way but our fine political leaders have seen to it that we are more divided than ever and there is no signs of positive change coming. If the medical industry had been allowed to work without government intrusion, people would have come together because most Americans had faith in modern medicine. That faith has been shaken by an industry that appears to be as greedy and self serving as big pharma.

5) when have you ever heard of leaders who sound an alarm but later come back voluntarily and tell everyone they may have overreacted? When this started, we were told it was the coming zombie apocalypse. Businesses were destroyed and the world brought to its knees not by the disease but by our precautions. I know of a guy who put off an important medical procedure and later died. How often did that happen? I know of an elderly fellow who was dying naturally but couldn't see his loved ones in his final days because the risk of Covid was too great a risk. That happened more than people are willing to admit. How many young people developed anxiety or depression issues not being able to go outside and play with friends? I could go on but the point is this: knowing the damage our over zealous precautions have caused, no leader is willing to come forward and acknowledge that it might have been too much. They'd be taken out and shot. So instead, they will double down always claiming that it would have been much worse without them and their oversight. Maybe I'm a little pessimistic but I don't put a lot of faith in people who make decisions that they benefit from.

My question wasn't whether the diseases were comparable or not. That's immaterial to the question. I was only wondering what the general population's thoughts were like about getting the vaccine at that time. Because, IMO, it appeared to be A LOT riskier than any of the covid vaccines. But I don't know anybody that hasn't taken the polio vaccine. You could substitute measles, rubella or whatever instead of polio if you prefer, I was really only wondering what public 'vaccine mood' was like back then. Back then, in Canada anyway, if your kids didn't get the vaccineS, they were not allowed to go to school. So were people happy about that? Angry? Indifferent?  Were there the same vaccine rules in the States?

[worthywads]

Interesting information here on excess deaths above historic deaths in the US from 2015 until Oct 11th of this year.  Interactive you can scroll over the graph to see the weekly detail.  This is all deaths not just covid deaths for those that suspect covid deaths have been overstated.

Compared to what was expected deaths in 2020 by week there have been over 815,000 excess deaths from Jan 3 2020 to Oct 11 2021.

US State's reported currently 787,000 Deaths from Covid.

Not a large discrepancy between total excess deaths vs reported Covid deaths.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-raw-death-count

This is just one of many graphs with downloadable spreadsheet format data.

[70 Challenger Lover]

Dodj, I think you already know the answer to your question since we are all old enough to have received the polio vaccination. There was no pushback back then to any of the vaccinations. Why is that, you may ask? Because those diseases and all the related facts are not comparable to Covid which is why I made my statement.

Back then, people were capable of weighing the risks and rewards and making intelligent decisions about their own health. Today, people make decisions based on what they're told by CNN or their elected officials. Back then, people saw those diseases as a true threat and accepted vaccinations. Today, many people reject much of what they are being told and don't believe the threat is very genuine. Having seen some of the shenanigans behind the curtain before I retired, I am one of the latter.

Conduct this little experiment: talk to people who identify strongly as conservative or strongly as democrat. Ask them to provide a number of Covid deaths for people they know of to include family, neighbors, friends, co-workers etc. Conservatives will answer that they know of none or maybe 1 or 2. Democrats will answer 20 plus. I've even heard 50 once. Ask them how severe the disease was for those who didn't die. Conservatives will say symptoms were very mild for a couple days but democrats will always say it was the most horrible experience ever with the patient lingering near death on a ventilator for weeks. I've done this with lots of democrats I used to know in California and all the conservative people I've been getting to know in our new state of Tennessee. The results are always as I listed. How the hell can this be? Maybe the disease affects democrats more aggressively?

[MKA]

When you post pics of statements that are easily fact checked as false or you make broad generalizations of a group of people to further your argument that's not supporting the thread which is a meaningful conversation to be had on its merits.

[dodj]

Dodj, I think you already know the answer to your question since we are all old enough to have received the polio vaccination.

Actually, no I don't. I got it around 1972 I think. I did what I was told. But not being politically aware when I was around 8 years old, I don't know what kind of discussions my parents were having.

I can't do your experiment because all my friends and family are conservative. My mom's liberal but I'm not arguing anything political with mom. lol
Liberals and Conservatives in Canada are roughly equivalent to Dem, Rep in USA. Not the same but sort of similar.
All I can say is I know personally of one person that got covid somehow. Then his 5 year old son got it from him while quarantining in same house. Both Mild cases with loss of smell/taste for a while. I had to quarantine as a close contact. Get this...LONGER than him! But I never got it.
So my personal experience fits your test experience. Not sure it's very scientific....lol



How you liking Tennessee? Missing Cali? . A little less 'top down' weather I'm thinking?

[torredcuda]

Sounds like the Polio vaccine was not initially very well accepted either - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-elvis-got-americans-to-accept-the-polio-vaccine/

other vaccine acceptance - https://www.oah.org/tah/issues/2015/august/vaccination-resistance/

https://krcgtv.com/news/local/americas-reaction-to-the-polio-vaccine-versus-the-covid-vaccine-is-different-expert-says

[Mr Lee]

Despite the so-called facts, statistics, and science etc about how bad this virus is and how great the vaccines are, why does it seem like everyone i talk to and every forum i read which are real experiences from real people, i am getting the exact opposite story from what the news and science is telling me?  Not just a few stories, but an overwhelming amount of stories. 

I have heard of way too many people who were vaxed and died with no underlying issues.  And ive heard of tons of unvaxed people who had covid and were fine.

I fully believe this: if the number of people who died from covid was totally inflated, then the number of vaxed people dying are being covered up. 

Here is the graph from the link posted by @worthywads. 
If i am reading this correctly, doesn't it look like there is a spike (actually the biggest spike of all) in total deaths right after the vaccine came out (tail end of 2020)??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr Lee]

...  Forgot to put the screenshot in



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[torredcuda]

Around here some of the best paying jobs are working in the public sector, government jobs etc....I can't believe that people are more willing to give up their great paying jobs, then to get vaccinated.... every night on the news you hear of more and more people being fired. It doesn't make sense to me   .... and you will NOT get any financial unemployment insurance from the Government either 

In my Province 87% of people over the age of 12 are fully vaccinated and 80% of people over that age of 5 have had at least one shot...

For those people to give up good paying jobs shows to me that they have very seriuos concerns about the safety of the vaccines. I am recently retired so no issues for me but my wife works for a company with less than 100 employees and  if there was a  mandates to get the vaccine she would be quitting and finding another job. In our case it is about the safety concern after her aunt died after getting the vaccine but also you sometimes need to stand for your freedoms or you lose them ALL!   

[worthywads]

Despite the so-called facts, statistics, and science etc about how bad this virus is and how great the vaccines are, why does it seem like everyone i talk to and every forum i read which are real experiences from real people, i am getting the exact opposite story from what the news and science is telling me?  Not just a few stories, but an overwhelming amount of stories. 

I have heard of way too many people who were vaxed and died with no underlying issues.  And ive heard of tons of unvaxed people who had covid and were fine.

I fully believe this: if the number of people who died from covid was totally inflated, then the number of vaxed people dying are being covered up. 

Here is the graph from the link posted by @worthywads. 
If i am reading this correctly, doesn't it look like there is a spike (actually the biggest spike of all) in total deaths right after the vaccine came out (tail end of 2020)??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is a graph of when people actually started getting the vaccine, there was no spike corresponding to the vaccine, more like a slope downward in the months after vaccine became broadly administered.  I can't seem to figure out how to get a screen shot posted.

The peak was Jan 4th 2021 before hardly anyone got vaccinated, and by April 2021 it had dropped to near normal.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?country=~USA

[70 Challenger Lover]

@dodj Tennessee is fantastic! Not missing CA at all other than little things like fresher produce. Already made a couple new e-body friends and been able to hit some car shows.

Lots of great top down opportunities here but the one drawback is minor rain showers can form in the blink of an eye so there's always the threat of getting your baby watered. I'm trying to get over my obsession of keeping water away from the cars. They are all fairly water tight and being kept indoors and maintained, any rust that formed would be decades in the making and the future owners problem. I am surprised and pleased by the abundance of car related opportunities to get out.

Circling back to the Covid thing one last time, it is remarkable how it's as if Covid was no longer a threat out here. No one discusses it and the local health departments aren't pushing constant testing or posting the latest death toll. Most folks don't wear a mask but those who do aren't ostracized for it. Far as I can tell, it's as if life is moving forward and people are allowing themselves to relax again. It's a far cry from the stories I hear from my friends back in CA. All I hear is death and despair from them. They won't come out and make it clear I'm not welcome to visit until I get vaccinated. I almost lost a 20 year friendship over this recently. One of my wife's friends tearfully implored her to get vaccinated or she'd die. As if it were a certainty. It was so over the top that you'd think she were dying of cancer and refusing all treatment. We decided when we left CA that we'd rather take our chances with Covid in TN than be stuck in CA where it's supposedly safer but cry ourselves to sleep every night with worry about how the world is ending. The attitudes about this problem are vastly different.

[Skid Row]

  I work for a public utilities company and was given no choice but to take the jab before the Jan. deadline.
A year and 10 months from retirement they held my pension as ransom. I've already had the covid(Feb.2020) as well as the Delta(Aug.2021) And had built up pretty good antibodies. Both Moderna shots
created the same effects as the Delta except for loss of taste for a short time. I Didn't need the shot!