the SPD on the fender tag/broadcast sheet is just what it calls itself the "SCHEDULED Production Date", good to know, but when was the car "BUILT"? A car can be built many days early or late - I've been working on "ACTUAL Production Date" calendars for a number of model years & plants, HAMTRAMCK 1970 among them.
the recently started broadcast sheet thread initiated this one:
https://forum.e-bodies.org/vin-fender-tag-build-sheet-and-date-codes/13/e-body-broadcast-sheet-reference-library-just-scanned-broadcast-sheets-please/804/
- add a b'cast sheet pic in the other thread & I'll add the info here, sounds simple enough :dunno:
"xs29j8"
1970 Challenger T/A JH23J0B307xxx with a 414-SPD (Tuesday April 14) was "In Plant/In Process" on Friday April 10, 1970 = EARLY
this Challenger T/A was among 4,650 Dodge e-bodies built during the month of April combined at both the Hamtramck, MI & Los Angeles, CA assembly plants
the #7 (of 12) most productive month of Challenger production for the 1970 model year
I just go by the sticker on the door for the actual production date.
What's the best way to tell when a car was actually built compared to when it was scheduled to be built? You need a lot of sheets to build up a sequence calendar, right? Plus the Door Mylar. This would be great if we can put something like this together! :veryexcited:
Quote from: ToxicWolf on February 21, 2017, 02:32:17 PM
I just go by the sticker on the door for the actual production date.
for a '70 model year vehicle - to door sticker only gives the month
Quote from: Cuda Cody on February 21, 2017, 02:33:18 PM
What's the best way to tell when a car was actually built compared to when it was scheduled to be built? You need a lot of sheets to build up a sequence calendar, right? Plus the Door Mylar.
Yes & Yes - and fake b'casts stick out like a sore thumb :foul:
Quote from: 6bblgt on February 21, 2017, 02:17:07 PM
- add a b'cast sheet pic in the other thread & I'll add the info here, sounds simple enough :dunno:
I'm going to have fun with this one too, thanks Dan!
Going by memory here at the moment but...
73 Challenger Rallye
927 SPD (September 27, 1972)
October 1972 door sticker
101212 MDH code on door sticker (built two weeks late)
you're right, mid-model year 1972 it's easy if you can look at your original door sticker :bigthumb:
& here come the excuses ..... :unbelievable:
"ec_co"
since so few LA broadcast sheets seem to have survived - the info just isn't out there; but Chrysler was busy in August, producing 3,358 Plymouth e-bodies in MI & CA combined (#7 most productive month of 12).
'70 model year production started on Monday 8/18/69 at LA & with your Barracuda "SCHEDULED" for 8/22, you can see it wasn't too far from the front of the line.
LA when up to speed & running at full steam ran 1 shift on one assembly line building ~300 cars per day (not so much the first couple of weeks)
"Cuda Cody"
HEMI 'cuda BS23R0B146xxx assembly Line #1 A06-SPD; October is the busiest E-Body month, more than 26,000 built - I need more data
HEMI Challenger R/T JS23R0B201xxx assembly line #2 B25-SPD; November is the #2 most productive month & line #2 was running ~85 cars per hour (it does have an "11-1969" door sticker, correct?)
OK, I posted mine. :D
Hi Dan,
I just posted two cars that you may find interesting. Any info is much appreciated.
Tom
interesting info on that /6 sheet, I wish mine had been in the car. that sheets VIN ends in 0677 and mine ends in 0322, so it sounds like a good possibility that mine may have been a day 2 build (roughly)? I know of a /6 Challenger (LA build also) still on the road with the VIN ending within 100 of mine
Yes :yes: Original 11- 1969 door mylar sticker.
Quote from: 6bblgt on February 22, 2017, 11:57:37 PM
HEMI Challenger R/T JS23R0B201xxx assembly line #2 B25-SPD; November is the #2 most productive month & line #2 was running ~85 cars per hour (it does have an "11-1969" door sticker, correct?)
"cataclysm80"
1970 340 'cuda BS23H0B393xxx with a 625-SPD (Friday June 25) I'm getting close on June BEST BET "In Plant/In Process" on Tuesday June 22, 1970 +/- a day = EARLY
June was not a big Barracuda month only 2,696 Plymouth E-bodies - ALL at Hamtramck, MI
the #9 production month (of 12) for the 1970 model year
***** (June was the most productive month for Chrysler Corp. 1970 model year 172,000+ cars total all 8 car plants)
Simply Amazing Dan!
Thank You So Much! :D
It makes me curious how you figured out the actual production date from the info given.
I'm guessing this is something that would require a lot of data on build sheet sequence numbers or something?
Maybe the time stamp would provide a clue?
That makes perfect sense as this sheet was found in a different car built on March 17th! :clapping: Nicely done!!!!
Quote from: 6bblgt on February 21, 2017, 02:31:00 PM
"Cuda Cody"
1970 Challenger T/A JH23J0B276xxx with a 313-SPD (Friday March 13) was "In Plant/In Process" on Tuesday March 17, 1970 = LATE
this Challenger T/A was among 5,961 Dodge e-bodies built during the month of March combined at both the Hamtramck, MI & Los Angeles, CA assembly plants
the #5 (of 12) most productive month of Challenger production for the 1970 model year
I added a broadcast sheet to the reference thread https://forum.e-bodies.org/vin-fender-tag-build-sheet-and-date-codes/13/e-body-broadcast-sheet-reference-library-just-scanned-broadcast-sheets-please/804/msg21929#msg21929
for a low-OPTION'd A93 fixed 1/4 window '70 Barracuda coupe - it has a 402-SPD but for whatever reason was not built until much later in the month almost 3 weeks LATE
my calculations put it "In Process/In Plant" on April 20
I really like that A93 Barracuda! :D
OK Dan, I just posted a couple sheets in the other thread, and would LOVE to hear whatever you can tell me about them.
The first sheet with 825 SPD goes with a friends car. (found in passenger seat)
The second sheet with 826 SPD was found in that same car. (found in rear seat)
Does this mean both cars were actually built on the same day?
Part 2: I don't have a broadcast sheet for my own 70 Challenger with an 826 SPD. Does the 826 broadcast sheet reveal anything about my own car?
My car has a lot in common with both the other cars. All 3 cars are JH23, & EF8 paint with H6F8 interior, and seem to be built together.
My VIN is 153 apart from the other 826 car, for whatever that's worth.
I'd be particularly interested in hearing about any additional cars built on that day, and any information it might suggest about my own car.
I think my friend knows what dealership his car sold at new, and I'm wondering if there's anything to indicate whether mine was in the same region (which happens to be near my wife's home town).
Here's my fender tag. (never mind the cheap repaint)
My car is power steering with the standard woodgrain wheel, Air conditioning with all the windows factory tinted, 8.75 rear with 2.76 gears, manual drum brakes on all 4 wheels, 318 with 904 transmission.
(had an engine block heater in it, though I'm not sure how to tell if that's factory or not)
the 2 Challenger sheets posted are from Assembly Line #2 (the big line) it appears they were building cars at almost twice the rate of Line #1
does your friend's Challenger have a door sticker? Right now my data would suggest they were "In Process/In Plant" on the last production day of August (Friday 8/29/69), but it is quite possible they are first production day of September (Tuesday 9/2/69)
the door sticker would be the key .....
Quote from: cataclysm80 on April 18, 2017, 12:16:58 AM
OK Dan, I just posted a couple sheets in the other thread, and would LOVE to hear whatever you can tell me about them.
The first sheet with 825 SPD goes with a friends car. (found in passenger seat)
The second sheet with 826 SPD was found in that same car. (found in rear seat)
Does this mean both cars were actually built on the same day?
Yes, IMO they were 14 cars apart on the assembly line
Quote from: cataclysm80 on April 18, 2017, 12:16:58 AM
Part 2: I don't have a broadcast sheet for my own 70 Challenger with an 826 SPD. Does the 826 broadcast sheet reveal anything about my own car?
My car has a lot in common with both the other cars. All 3 cars are JH23, & EF8 paint with H6F8 interior, and seem to be built together.
My VIN is 153 apart from the other 826 car, for whatever that's worth.
I'd be particularly interested in hearing about any additional cars built on that day, and any information it might suggest about my own car.
I think my friend knows what dealership his car sold at new, and I'm wondering if there's anything to indicate whether mine was in the same region (which happens to be near my wife's home town).
your friend's Challenger was a Y14 "ordered car", your car does not appear to be ordered from the same dealership - but it could've been a "sales bank" car that ended up there
I'll see what else I can come up with .....
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 18, 2017, 12:43:23 AM
does your friend's Challenger have a door sticker? Right now my data would suggest they were "In Process/In Plant" on the last production day of August (Friday 8/29/69), but it is quite possible they are first production day of September (Tuesday 9/2/69)
the door sticker would be the key .....
Yes, his door sticker says August, here's a pic.
His car sold new on September 13th 1969, at Mount Vernon Motors in Indiana, sold by Paul Page, to a woman who purchased a Factory Service Manual and kept meticulous notes.
My own car did not have a door sticker when I got it.
Thank You Very Much Dan!! :D
I shared the info with my friend, and he says Thank You also. :)
He had a question.
Do the 724 & 751 time stamps on those sheets meant that the cars were built in the morning?
He also had an unrelated question about his 1971 Superbee if you happen to know anything about those.
He is wondering why his VON on the fender tag begins with a D.
383, 3 speed manual trans, bench seat, manual drum brakes, road wheels
front/rear bumper guards, fender mounted turn signal indicators, dual chrome mirrors, door edge guards, red with white interior.
He's under the impression that D was used on Driver's Training vehicles, but this car was never used for that purpose.
It sold new at Carter Sales & Service Inc. in Wabash Valley Indiana.
The lady that worked there then remembers the car and said that they got discounts and tax breaks for driver training vehicles, but never ordered anything other than 4 door cars for the driver training program.
It was the only 71 Superbee sold at that dealership that year. They said it was sold as soon as the tires hit the ground. It stayed local there for many years.
It was built in September, but he doesn't have a Broadcast sheet.
He says the Superbee registry has one other 71 Superbee with a D VON. It's a yellow Sunroof car, also built in September.
each plant "handled" the SEQENCE NUMBER on the top left of the broadcast sheet a little differently, at Hamtramck 1970:
the SEQUENCE NUMBERs appear to be the build order based on the print time & the print time is based on a 24 hour & 100 "minute" clock
I believe the print time stamps 724 (7:14AM) & 751 (7:31AM) represent a time when the car build was released to the production floor (or something similar). Broadcast sheet is the starting point & door sticker is the finished point.
still getting conflicting info on how many shifts it would take to build a complete car from start to finish - I believe the biggest issue is the fact that staffing and output varied from plant to plant & year to year (even month to month)
best guess at this point: Line #2 Hamtramck
for the month of August '69 ~6350 cars built
running 2 shifts at the end of the month
Driver's Education is the only reference I've seen in respect to a "D" VON prefix.
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 19, 2017, 01:15:18 AM
I believe the print time stamps 724 (7:14AM) & 751 (7:31AM) represent a time when the car build was released to the production floor (or something similar). Broadcast sheet is the starting point & door sticker is the finished point.
still getting conflicting info on how many shifts it would take to build a complete car from start to finish - I believe the biggest issue is the fact that staffing and output varied from plant to plant & year to year (even month to month)
best guess at this point: Line #2 Hamtramck
for the month of August '69 ~6350 cars built
running 2 shifts at the end of the month
If I remember all of this correctly (hopefully I saved a copy of the conversation), Dave Walden got permission from Chrysler to make reproduction broadcast sheets, and did quite a bit of research into what would be required for that project. In the end, he was confident in his ability to make accurate sheets, but decided not to make them because he didn't like what he thought it would do to the hobby. As part of his research for correct fonts, he tracked down a guy that repaired the broadcast sheet printers on the assembly line, and learned exactly what model of printers they were, etc. One of the things the printer repair guy said was that there were broadcast sheet printers at the beginning of every different department along the assembly line. Each car had a broadcast sheet for every different department, but most of those sheets are thrown away during production. The sheets which we usually find in cars are from the trim shop when the interiors are done, which is closer to the end of the line than the beginning.
If we could see the different broadcast sheets from each department, they'd have different time stamps according to when the car entered that department. (maybe also different line sequence numbers if the line order was rearranged for some reason, like if a car was pulled aside for repair work?)
Some of the engineers from Lynch Road have said that it took 2 days to get a car from the metal shop onto a transport truck in 1970.
I'm not sure how that would compare to Hamtramck production speed, but I have to wonder, If these green Challengers were all passing through the trim shop at the end of the assembly line during the early morning of August 29th, maybe they could have actually been in the metal shop on August 26th where the SPD on the fender tag was stamped?
:thinking: It makes me wonder, How did we come to the conclusion that the date on the fender tag was only a Scheduled date instead of the Actual date that the car was in the metal shop.
Production seems to be a multiday process, longer if something goes wrong.
Have we ever seen an instance where a broadcast sheet indicates the car was built BEFORE the fender tag SPD? That would pretty much rule out the SPD as being an actual date.
Sorry I'm so full of questions. :)
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 19, 2017, 01:15:18 AM
Driver's Education is the only reference I've seen in respect to a "D" VON prefix.
I've also heard somewhere that D was used on 1970 WH41 Senior Citizen Special cars sold in Jacksonville FL, but that's definitely not this Superbee. :)
Many Thanks Again for all of your help!!
:clapping: I love hearing everyone thoughts on this kinda of stuff. The more we all share and brainstorm, the better the hobby is. Thanks for all your thought Tavis. :drinkingbud:
it's right in the title: SPD = "Scheduled Production Date"
I have yet to see an A53 "TRANS AM" e-body that was "SCEDULED" 401-SPD that was not completed in March based on an original door sticker.
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 19, 2017, 08:35:57 PM
it's right in the title: SPD = "Scheduled Production Date"
Yes, I've always heard of it referred to as a Scheduled Production Date, but I wasn't sure if that title was created by the factory, or if it was something that we hobbyists had come up with in the intervening years while trying to figure this stuff out. :)
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 19, 2017, 08:35:57 PM
I have yet to see an A53 "TRANS AM" e-body that was "SCEDULED" 401-SPD that was not completed in March based on an original door sticker.
Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for. Definitely Scheduled then, and not actual.
Thanks again Dan!
& if there is any credibility to my "Actual Production Date" theories - this 401 SPD AAR was completed on Thursday March 19th
Your theories require a broadcast sheet correct?
I mean, you can't tell from just a fender tag or a door sticker right?
Quote from: cataclysm80 on April 19, 2017, 09:09:10 PM
Your theories require a broadcast sheet correct?
I mean, you can't tell from just a fender tag or a door sticker right?
correct
I thought it would be easy to find "SPD" in print - it's got to be somewhere,
but here is the best I could find right now from a 1970 Plymouth Service Manual & a '67 IBM card .....
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 19, 2017, 09:00:17 PM
& if there is any credibility to my "Actual Production Date" theories - this 401 SPD AAR was completed on Thursday March 19th
How did you determine the completion date?
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 19, 2017, 08:35:57 PM
it's right in the title: SPD = "Scheduled Production Date"
I have yet to see an A53 "TRANS AM" e-body that was "SCEDULED" 401-SPD that was not completed in March based on an original door sticker.
I have 402 SPD with March Sticker
He has documented enough build sheets to put together a time frame. And he's continuing to add more to the list all the time.... that's helps figure it all out. So if you have a build sheet, post it up so he can continue to build up an accurate database. :bradsthumb:
Quote from: cuda dad on April 19, 2017, 09:34:03 PM
Quote from: 6bblgt on April 19, 2017, 09:00:17 PM
& if there is any credibility to my "Actual Production Date" theories - this 401 SPD AAR was completed on Thursday March 19th
How did you determine the completion date?
Okay, I just put mine up for you
this all started with the A12 crowd wanting to know when their Six Pack Super Bees & 6bbl Road Runners were actually built as all have 329 or 426 for a SPD (they were built over 12 weeks).
using yearly & monthly production totals, broadcast sheets, door stickers, a clock & a calendar * I'm "reverse engineering" the flow of production - I'd like to find copies of specific plant UAW contracts to find holiday schedules and other info I'm convinced are documented within.
all of the above & I've been putting in more than a few hours trying to get more months/dates figured out since Spring Fling and I'm a bit :crying: how little time I spent in the show field & at MATS I'm going to be busy also * a friend & I just finished his '72 GTX - anyone else going?
ISSUES: for example - I was missing 4-days March '70 Hamtramck Line #1 :headbang: I think I found them Monday night .....
it appears UAW had a 4-day Easter break - right now I have it on the calendar as Wednesday 3/25 thru Monday 3/30 (NO production)
it affects some of the dates earlier in this thread & I'll go back and edit them
Quote from: cataclysm80 on April 19, 2017, 06:15:02 PM
If I remember all of this correctly (hopefully I saved a copy of the conversation), Dave Walden...
I went digging through my car notes, and thought you guys might appreciate these excerpts from conversations with Dave.
Most of this is from Dave, but I know that some of it is also from other people. It's a wall of text, so
make sure you get comfortable before you start reading.At the time, I was trying to look at how standard items were coded on the sheet.
I had noticed how some standard items aren't coded on the sheet. Like a non rallye instrument cluster, even though the 70 challenger cluster is different that the 70 barracuda cluster, the sheet doesn't seem to specify which to install in a car. Same with the SE tail panel & smaller rear window, not specifically coded, you have to know that they are part of the SE package. Door panel carpet, etc...
"Here are two build sheets that I have for my Challenger JS23U0B244002. One thing to notice is that both sheets are different concerning the font or typed characters. On one sheet the lettering skipped one character to the right and the numbers ended up one row off. Also notice the different font characters regarding the 3 and 5.
The other image is a Vehicle Traveler sheet that was in the trunk of the car. It is not a build sheet but incorporates the entire first row of information found on a build sheet. I have reproduced these to exact appearance of the originals and will be offering them upon approval. Hope this information helps!
Were there differences if font styles from plant to plant and/or year to year, as with the fender tags?
Broadcast sheets were printed out all over the plant, not all of the printers had the exact same font for every character. So, fonts varied even inside the same plant with broadcast sheets for the same car.
The numbers can be darker and sometimes a little thicker or fatter due to a fresh ribbon in a printer. There was a top copy that was ink printed from the printer and there was a carbon copy also. The carbon copies are always sharper or thinner since they got no splatter from the ribbon like the top copy did because the top copy absorbs all of squash the key stroke created.
The characters that usually varied in font style between plants were 0, 3, 5, 6, and 9. The 1's sometimes even varied within the same manufacturing plant.
There were at least 50-60 build sheets that accompanied a vehicle during it's assembly. Each station required the option information in order to accurately install the specified part(s). The sheets that usually made it out of the plant were the ones that were easily concealed by the actual part used for assembly. (Carpet, dash, seats, headliner, etc....) They obviously couldn't or wouldn't have left one stuffed in the spokes of the steering wheel. The LA plant had a "trash" policy that stated no paperwork was to be left in the vehicle during assembly. As with all rules and regulations, we know that employees didn't always follow directions.
the printers had a fixed print ball just like the select type typewriters of the day. the font differences came from repaired printers that had replacement balls that had different or up dated characters.
The sheets have feed holes on the sides because they were run through a processor that ran thousands from forms that were connected and separated by perforations.
I checked my notes referencing the various printing methods used to create Chrysler business forms. Build sheets were printed on an automated processor that required information, downloaded from a main frame data base. The information was entered by office employees but the printing was networked automatically to substations throughout the plant. The printing station used a spinning ball, with fixed fonts, to provide the primary print you see on a build sheet. The Monroney (MSRP) window stickers incorporated a 21 pin processor in their printing. The fonts that were used to print the window stickers were not determined by the physical printer but the software that was used in the database system. A 21 pin configuration printing system was the style that Chrysler predominately used throughout that time period. (The same aspects are true for the fonts that were used for the VIN data decals.) Density of print was determined by the 21 pin print mechanism (striking pressure).
Monroney Label/sticker (aka "Window Sticker") named for Oklahoma Senator Almer Stillwell "Mike" Monroney who created the bill to make this sticker/label a Federal law to protect consumers from fraud.
It was required by law to keep slick sales people from selling cars with implied warranties or components or accessories that may not have been there "Sure it's the big V8 and heavy duty suspension with the Suregrip differential..." that sometimes the buyer couldn't really verify unless they took the component apart, jacked the car up, or really knew their cars. (Oh that, no that's not yellow paint, that the new Yellow Primer.) It was requied by law that every manufacture and their dealers told the customer EXACTLY what they were purchasing and what the warranty covered. Eventually the EPA included fuel economy info, to help the customer with their buying decision.
As far as I know, the blue and white sheets ended sometime in September or October of 1969 (for the 70 cars) and replaced with the more colorful sheets.
Two broadcast sheets still attached to each other showed that none of the Sequence #, VON, & VIN numbers were sequential coming out of the printer. In fact they even had different SPDs, one being 5-13 and the other being 5-15.They used this ball in their Select Type typwriters that was and invention/trademark of IBM. The typwriter allowed for quick changes in the balls that could change the entire (font) look of the print.
The broadcast printers were just an overgrown typewriter in a case with a box of tractor feed forms under it that was tied into the main frame computer.
The main frame computer was housed at Chrysler's corporate headquarters where the data entry people were as well. The information was sent to the remote printers in the different plants.
The only thing that the individual plants had the control to change on the broadcast sheets were the sequence number on the far left side of line one. This was the actual order in which the cars went down the line and was subject to change as the scheduled production dates were seldom accurate. The actual run time for a given car was determined after daily planning meeting at the plants regarding all parts available to build cars for the following day.
The sales order and it's number were the first document in the life of a car. After it was written it was determined by the corporate office as to which plant it would be produced at depending on which plant built that particular model and was geographically closest to where the car was to be shipped to, if it was predestine for a dealership. At that point the sales order number, the V.I.N. and the SPD were input on the IBM computer that generated the IBM card and from that point the plant that was to produce the car picked up this information from the IBM system.
Every dealership was issued a zone number from Corporate. Here are a few examples from the sixties and seventies era:
*Diamond Chrysler Plymouth in Kansas City, MO; zone #52
*Billings Chrysler Plymouth in Montana; zone #72
*Worthington Dodge in California; zone #71
*Massillion Dodge in Ohio; zone #45
*Dodge Village in Connecticut; zone #31
*Hamburg Chrysler Plymouth in New York; zone #44
I have hundreds of dealerships in my database and the zones that were issued to them. When these individual dealerships received an order it was forwarded to Corporate and the vehicle was scheduled for build. Chrysler headquarters did all of the internal data entry that was provided and down loaded to the manufacturing facilities. Different plants were accommodated to build certain vehicles and the issue of where a car was built was determined by that factor. (Hemi Cudas were ALL built at the Hamtramck plant etc... Hamtramck was setup production wise for that type of vehicle.) Each plant was delegated the duty of processing the data and orchestrating production according to the sequence issued by the main hub, aka Corporate. Sometimes there were issues that required vehicles to be removed from their assigned sequence of assembly on the line. This would cause glitches for the return startup of the assembly process. The paperwork would continue to come in even when the line would stop. Imagine the confusion during the periods when parts would run out or a malfunction would occur with the automated machinery!
Why do some broadcast sheets use red ink? Note the printed codes are in red, I get asked about this every so often, so here is why. This sheet was one of the ones printed via carbon paper. The black ink would have been on the front copy and most of the "second" page sheets. The "end roll" sheets used red carbon paper to alert the person printing the sheets that the broadcast sheet blanks were about to run out. The same basic system is used today on cash register and credit card receipts.
There was no legal reason to
include with the completed car any of the broadcast sheets. In fact, in later years
they were actively eliminated because the paper was not in compliance with
government standards of cloth fire resistance.
BUILDSHEETS are found in Chevys...to find a BROADCAST Sheet you have to be into Mopars
1970 model year at "B" Hamtramck assembly plant Michigan.
You will find "pilot cars" with a 801 "scheduled production date" - these were not built on Friday, August 1st 1969, they were assembled many weeks/months earlier.
You will find "promo cars" with a 802 "scheduled production date" - these were not built on Saturday, August 2nd 1969, they were final assembled during the first work week August 4-8 (or later).
Clairpointe Pre-Production facility.
Its usual function was a training area for assembly of the next-year's models. It was
complete with scaled down versions of every major area of an assembly plant,
so that the new parts and new technologies could be tried under actual
conditions before the "real" cars were assembled. (Clairpointe test cars completed are
"pilot cars"). For example, in May of 1969, perhaps twenty of the
soon-to-be-introduced E-bodies were completely built at Clairpointe.
In late 1969, when the 1970 models were already in full production (since August 1, 1969), and the 1971 model pilot assembly had not yet begun, Clairpointe was ideally suited for SuperBird final assembly; its close proximity
to Lynch Road was an added bonus."
Photo 1 Broadcast sheets with carbon paper
Photo 2 Two broadcast sheets still attached to each other.
Photo 3 Vehicle Traveler
Here you go Dan, talked to Cody not long ago and Dan would be interested in your car. I hear your the numbers guy so here goes. 1970 Dodge Challenger, SL6, 3-speed and power nothing. EK2 exterior, burnt orange interior. Fender tag, door Mylar, dash tag all share the same V.I.N. I bought it as a daily driver in early 1973. She rolled off the LA assy. line 818 (Aug. 18, 1969) sequence #113 (100113) pretty early I think, how about you? Then to a dealership somewhere in SoCal, maybe. I do know that according to my Cal registration it was not sold until April 22,1970.that was of course to whoever bought this car before me. Seems like it was a lot lizard for awhile.
Quote from: 70/6chall on April 20, 2017, 01:52:54 PM
Here you go Dan, talked to Cody not long ago and Dan would be interested in your car. I hear your the numbers guy so here goes. 1970 Dodge Challenger, SL6, 3-speed and power nothing. EK2 exterior, burnt orange interior. Fender tag, door Mylar, dash tag all share the same V.I.N. I bought it as a daily driver in early 1973. She rolled off the LA assy. line 818 (Aug. 18, 1969) sequence #113 (100113) pretty early I think, how about you? Then to a dealership somewhere in SoCal, maybe. I do know that according to my Cal registration it was not sold until April 22,1970.that was of course to whoever bought this car before me. Seems like it was a lot lizard for awhile.
pretty sure ours rolled out the same doors within a few days of each other. I wish we both had our broadcast sheets. my vin ends in COE100322 with an 820 SPD love those little tidbits :twothumbsup:
My AAR SPD of 4/03 on broadcast sheet has a door sticker date of 3/70
with the recent eBay auction of a well documented AAR, I thought I'd bump this thread .....
BS23J0B292397 - SPD 402 = Thursday 4/2/70
engine assembly date - 3149 = 3/12/70
transmission assembly date - 3155 = 3/18/70
"In Plant/In Process" = Monday 3/23/70 EARLY
car would've had a "3-70" door sticker
wow - 3 months since my last post here
figuring when Christmas - '70 New Year break was is proving difficult - any broadcast sheets from Dec. '69 - Jan. '70 would be greatly appreciated,
:needphotos:
Dan,
Based on the information you've collected thus far, is it possible to tell the difference in the SPD vs. Actual Production Date for 70 LA built Cuda's that do not have a broadcast sheet? I'm asking because that's the case with my Cuda...it is a LA car with a SPD of B21.
Rob
I see tavis has already given you my cars info. So you're saying it was scheduled on 825 but not started till 829? Or ginnished on 829? Mine is Jh23C0B107922. Also would you have the dealer code for mount vernon motors in alexandria virginia? Paul page sold this car to annette wrights parents who gave it to her as a going to college gift. This car was on the road 915 which was earlier than they were supposed to be released to the public. The" sold car" code. Does that mean the dealership ordered the car or was it ordered by her parrents at the dealership? Having a brain fart at the moment and need tp refresh my brain 😉
Would be cool to know what day my car was built
BS23H0B161615 , door sticker says 10/69. Tag on back seat has a date of 10/17/1969. I have no legible build sheet so I'm just going to say it was completed on October 21, 1969... My birthdate 8) . Any help figuring out the real date would be appreciated.
Ok, how about this one...door vin/decal shows she was born 5/25. This should be interesting. Thanks for all you do!
Quote from: Pentastarnut on October 20, 2017, 05:32:24 PM
BS23H0B161615 , door sticker says 10/69. Tag on back seat has a date of 10/17/1969. I have no legible build sheet so I'm just going to say it was completed on October 21, 1969... My birthdate 8) . Any help figuring out the real date would be appreciated.
@Pentastarnut (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/pentastarnut_114) right now I'd need that broadcast sheet, how much of one do you have? is any of it legible?
I have a 70' challenger spd 10-69 but interested actual build date! I believe dan is who im needing to speak with!
Mine is spd 10-69 but how do i find actual build date
Quote from: 70a66 on October 21, 2017, 06:02:06 AM
I have a 70' challenger spd 10-69 but interested actual build date! I believe dan is who im needing to speak with!
You can tag him like this -
@6bblgt (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/6bblgt_211) and it will send him a notification.
Older pic. Not at home at the moment. Sorry for the black out.
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on October 21, 2017, 07:11:39 AM
Older pic. Not at home at the moment. Sorry for the black out.
lower left
053007 = completed (MDH) MAY 30 during the 7AM hour
I'll try to scan it and post a pic ;)
Own a 1970 A66 Challenger convertible since 1979
I always like to date crunch the numbers and would be real curious as to the actual build date of my car.
My Challenger has a SPD of A06 (October 6, 1969.)
As I finally start to restore the car, I pull the date codes off of parts.
I have quite a range of dates
I thought the date tag on the k frame and the stenciled date in yellow on the differential could at least help narrow down an actual assembly date.
List of parts dates I thought would be helpful:
1970 Challenger A66 Convertible
Scheduled Build date A06= Oct 6, 1969 Monday
Brake caliper bracket RT 267-9 = Sept. 24, 1969 Wed
Brake caliper bracket Lft 279-9 = Oct 6, 1969 Mon
Collapse Spare L/9 9~17 = Sept 17, 1969 Wed
Control Arm Lower Rt 921 & 274 274 day 1969 = Oct 1, 1969 Wed
Differential (yellow stencil assembly date) 295 = Oct 22, 1969 Wed
Glass lft rear (non tint) 2699 = Sept 26,1969 Fri
K Frame # 2962012 2939-1 = Oct 20, 1969 sft 1 Mon
Radiator #2998974 2359 = Aug 23, 1969 Sat
Radio Speaker # 2894778 2939 = Oct 20, 1969 Mon
Rugs JP Stevens 1667FX8 = Oct 11, 1969 Sat
Window lft rear L-9 9\17 5.5 = Sept 9, 1969 Tues
I also found a rug date label under the rug dated 10/11 and a sheet of paper with the year 1969 and lines on it (looks like some sort of record card- have no idea what it was?)
With a scheduled build date of A06, I would think the K frame date 10/20 and the differential stencil 10/22 would be toward the end of my car's assembly date.
Also found the rug date tag and a sheet of paper with the year 1969 and lines on it under the rug (never saw the sheet with the 1969 year on it before)
My thoughts on this: the date code on the K frame 10/20 and the stencil on the differential 10/22 would indicate a late October completion date.
I have no build sheet, but an intact data plate and some original paperwork from the original owner.
Copy of 1969 "card" under the rug (what is this?)
and rug date tag
Data plate for the A66 Challenger
My main thought on identifying or at least estimating actual build dates vs the SBD.
I used date codes from parts on my Challenger I thought could add some build data around the SBD. My SBD is October 6th
The k frame on my car has a date of Oct 20th. This is a major structural component that would need to be installed to build the car.
Was the motor and k frame installed as one unit in the later part of any build?
My differential (install date) has the yellow date stencil listed as October 22nd.
My am center dash radio speaker has a date code of October 20th.
Would it be worth making a chart of date codes for your cars parts and would this narrow down the time that the car was built and or finished?
Just my thoughts on this. :thinking:
ADDENDUM:
JUST FOUND THE ORIGINAL WARRANTY CARD WITH A DELIVERY DATE OF 11/17/69 :veryexcited:
6bblgt
Thanks for your response
Picture of the door sticker is October 1969
Doesn't A06 SBD represent October 6th?
Very early, but I think you are on track
The late k frame October date was probably toward the end of the build.
Click on the 1969 card image. it was taken with a high quality lens and should enlarge easily
I will try to enhance the pic and re-post
6bblgt
Better picture w enhanced color on the 1969 tag
Download and it should enlarge
::)
Here's another but still bad
Just wanted to thank 6bblgt for his work on the Production vs Scheduled Build Date
:bigthumb:
Interesting data!
Did you have any thoughts on the 1969 card I found under the rug?
Lots of October cars were late.... Mine is A13 SPD with lots of components build between 27th-29th & the door sticker shows it was built in October so they got it done....
Any info on this one?
Six Thousands is a pretty low VIN, and the sequence number of the Sales Order Number is VERY low.
I think that fender tag says that it's a "Sold Car", which means the order form for the car came from the dealership right?
The dealership emblem is still on the tail panel. It's Freeds in Salt Lake City. Maybe that will help other people with nearby SO numbers to know which dealership ordered their car new? That dealership would have had a sequentially numbered pad of order forms.
Have VON 000304 but it came from Bob Wickett in San Bernardino, CA.
It would be neat to know if the numbered order forms were in pads of 25 or 50.
I'm guessing cars 000176 through 000200 were ordered by (and probably sold new at) Freeds.
Quote from: cataclysm80 on January 14, 2018, 04:11:31 PM
It would be neat to know if the numbered order forms were in pads of 25 or 50.
Tav, that is exactly what I tried to find out but nowwhere found an answer to: how many orderforms did one pad/stash exist of??? Was it 25, 50 or even 100?
Does anybody here know a person or is a person himself who was an employee in the sales-department/backoffice of a dealership or at mother MOPAR?
Just some thoughts...
Actual data would be best of course, but lacking that maybe we can make a rough guess and see what seems reasonable.
Let's just look at 1970. What's the highest VON we've seen?
I think it's pretty safe to assume that there were a lot of unused order forms at the end of the year, because every dealership would have some, so there should be more order forms created than there were cars built.
How many dealerships were there in 1970? If I recall correctly, they had to build X number of trans am cars for each dealership in order to be able to enter those cars in the race, so that may give us a pretty good idea of dealership quantity.
Next, how many cars were built in 1970? Combined with the above info, this might give us some idea of how many blank forms each dealership had at the end of the year.
If the average is less than 25, that could be saying something about how large the pads were. Same for if the number is above or below 50.
Sure, some dealerships might have had more than one pad, but smaller dealerships probably not, and we're looking at an average of all of them.
Were these forms actually thrown away at the end of 1970 model year, or could the dealership keep using them on 71 cars?
Anyone have a pic of the order form?
So 70 and 71 are different pads?
From the picture, can you guess roughly how many order forms remain on each pad?
From the number on the top form, can you guess maybe how many forms have already been used off the pad?
Yes, very different pads for each year. Here's one posted in another thread (on this forum) by
@TobiasM (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/tobiasm_392)
~3,065 Dodge dealer franchises (1/1971)
1970 Dodge Challenger
67,126 assembled at Hamtramck, MI
15,906 assembled at Los Angeles, CA
83,032 total
76,935 shipped domestically (average 25 per franchise)
:crazytalk:
10 "customer orders"
8 "dealer spec'd"
7 "chrysler spec'd"
the large majority (99%) of VONs info I have are below 200000
then there are the VONs with a letter "prefix"
& then there is CANADA & EXPORT
:thinking: Dodge would've had "pads" in-house to spec. out "SALES BANK" cars
I have never seen any numbers referencing "Dealer Ordered" VS. "SOLD" (Y14) VS. "SALES BANK" (Y16) cars
~3,580 Plymouth dealer franchises (1/1971)
1970 Plymouth Barracuda
45,788 assembled at Hamtramck, MI
9,711 assembled at Los Angeles, CA
55,499 total
50,627 shipped domestically (average 14 per franchise)
:crazytalk:
6 "customer orders"
4 "dealer spec'd"
4 "chrysler spec'd"
ALL of VONs info I have are below 200000
then there are the VONs with a letter "prefix" ...... etc.
"BALL PARK"
there could be huge ERROR here, but here goes :crazytalk: ..... went thru the 1970 E-body data I have organized & came up with:
40% Y14 customer order
30% (blank) dealer order ??
30% Y16 Chrysler spec'd
200,000 VONs
60,000 available at Chrysler
140,000 available at dealerships (~40 per Plymouth franchise & ~45 per Dodge franchise)
less than 25% of the Barracuda order forms printed would've been used
less than 30% of the Challenger order forms printed would've been used
let's try a bigger "BALL PARK" :yes:
Jan. 1971 franchise count:
Chrysler ~3,480
Plymouth ~3,580
Dodge ~3,065
total number of dealerships: 5,660
the ultimate average dealership with a Chrysler - Plymouth & Dodge franchise sold 418 "NEW" cars model year 1970
approximately 8 cars a week
C-bodies 151 cars
* Imperial 3
* Chrysler 46
* Dodge 30
* Plymouth 72
B-bodies 91 cars
* Charger 15
* Coronet 35
* Belvedere 41
E-bodies 39 cars
* Challenger 25
* Barracuda 14
A-bodies 137 cars
* Dart 56
* Valiant 81
The photos I have of other order forms I do not have permission to share. There's a few blank ones out there too. It's neat to see this info come to light and be able to help build an accurate guess on how things were done. It's about the best we can do with the info we have right now.
Wow, you guys are simply amazing!
Some days, the "Like" button is just insufficient to convey how much I enjoy your posts.
I stumbled across this list of dealerships today...
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/vintageDealerships.shtml
Those numbers are averages, so some sold more and some sold less. Probably a few higher volume dealerships really selling cars, and several not quite getting up to average.
For most of those cars, it looks like a pad of 25 order forms is a years supply.
I assume that dealerships had a way to ask for more order forms if they ran out, so higher volume dealerships could just ask for another pad later in the year, and that would probably carry them through.
It seems like it would be excessively wasteful to supply every dealership with a pad of 50 forms for most of those cars.
On the other hand, those A bodies are hot sellers. I wouldn't be surprised to see those in pads of 50.
Maybe different car lines could have different sized pads.
Maybe they could just print everything in pads of 50, but if that were the case, would we see a lot more unused forms floating around?
Pads of 100 forms would just be absurd considering those sales figures.
If the dealerships received regular shipments from Chrysler anyway, Technical Service Bulletins, more new cars, etc. It wouldn't have been any big deal to supply more order forms along with that regular shipment.
Maybe there's only 10 forms on a pad.
It sure would be great to unlock this mystery, and start helping people figure out where there car was sold new.
I'd love to know where my car was sold new.
I was lucky and got some original paperwork with my A66 Challenger convertible when I bought it in 1980.
I have the original purchasers name, date if delivery and the dealership that sold the car in New Jersey
My car was sold by North Plainfield Dodge in North Plainfield, NJ. Dealership number 59004
This dealership was not on Barry's dealer list (I sent the information to him for inclusion) Dealer no longer exists in previous form.
As I restore my car, I am recording date codes on parts and have determined that most of the original parts were from September 1969 through late October. SBD was October 6th. Car was delivered to buyer on November 17th.
Always interesting comparing the data.
I am enjoying the postings taking place here regarding a ways and means to ID the dealers and other members car information.
:ohyeah:
While not having to do with E-Bodies still thought this was interesting and might ad a little something on the VON debate. A 1969 Daytona VIN list is out there that shows all the VON's for the cars before they were assigned a special order number (so these all were used but not used on the car). Also the list has many more cars (ie the dealers ordered way more than 500) then actually made production. So a bunch of Charger VON's that entered the system did not get made.
Wow this is an awesome thread and I love the collaboration
Quote from: 6bblgt on January 22, 2018, 10:46:55 PM
the large majority (99%) of VONs info I have are below 200000
I believe that.... When I first read it I figured I might have one late enough that it would be higher.... Not even close...
SPD 723
VIN JS29U0B440289
VON 184372
Hi,
I am reading through the posts,,, attempting to follow along....
My 70 Challenger R/T U code 440/auto. A04 build date and a Y13 Dealer demo code (if that is correct?) also Y07 Canadian specs.
I did mail 6BBl regarding possible info on a dealer the car was sold at originally but unfortunately This is a Canadian order and sold car. It seems few records, or at least 6bbl has nothing if anything on Canadian orders/ sold cars..damn!
I notice some talk on the Y codes... Is a Y13 anything special? I guess this is and included in the franchise orders?
Anyway, detective work on going....
Thanks!
Quote from: Marksmopar1 on October 28, 2019, 08:05:58 PM
Hi,
I am reading through the posts,,, attempting to follow along....
My 70 Challenger R/T U code 440/auto. A04 build date and a Y13 Dealer demo code (if that is correct?) also Y07 Canadian specs.
I did mail 6BBl regarding possible info on a dealer the car was sold at originally but unfortunately This is a Canadian order and sold car. It seems few records, or at least 6bbl has nothing if anything on Canadian orders/ sold cars..damn!
I notice some talk on the Y codes... Is a Y13 anything special? I guess this is and included in the franchise orders?
Anyway, detective work on going....
Thanks!
I would try get a hold of Terry McCann - he has a lot of info on Canadian cars.
He told me that my Canadian 71 V code Challenger was one of 25 sent to Canada :canada:
Thanks for the info tip ,
Would you know if Terry McCann is on this site ?
Thanks!! :canada:
I dont really have a lot of information on Canadian cars.
After I purchased my JS23V1B Challenger in 1986, I was put in touch with a gentleman
who was with the Chrysler Canadian Historical Society at the time.
My Challenger was sold new in Ontario and when I provided him with proof of ownership and the VIN,
he conveyed to me that mine was one of twenty-five 440-6 automatics shipped to Canada.
This was 1986 or so and the only time I talked to him.
Quote from: cataclysm80 on January 23, 2018, 09:42:47 PM
I stumbled across this list of dealerships today...
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/vintageDealerships.shtml
Quote from: wanderlustin on September 25, 2019, 02:58:23 PM
@cataclysm80 (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/cataclysm80_127) broken link?
Quote from: 7E-Bodies on September 25, 2019, 03:07:57 PM
@wanderlustin (https://forum.e-bodies.org/mlist/wanderlust-tyler_6) I noticed that too. Perhaps Barry moved it or took it down. Would like to see it after posting my build sheets above.
Yep, broken link.
Barry must have taken it down for some reason.
I don't recall whether I saved the info or not, it was hundreds of dealerships.
I just looked around the Hamtramck Historical website, and didn't see it anywhere.
I know that Barry was looking for a dealership directory book from 1970, so that he wouldn't have to save all the info one dealership at a time. Maybe he finally found the book.
Anyway, here's another place you can try.
http://maxwedge.com/dealerships/index.php
The National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) has access to VIN records on file in the form of microfiche (for older models), for ALL vehicles at least as far back as the musclecar era. The info showed the selling dealer, their address, dealer code, and the exact date that the car was delivered to the dealership.
Getting access to that would be a treasure trove of information, but it's pretty much locked away. Maybe someone with contacts in law enforcement or insurance could query a few VINs, but it would be game changing if we could access the whole thing.
We're getting to the point where the info is half a century old now, so hopefully public access would be approved at some point. Someone should be trying to do this.
NICB's microfiche info was related to shipping records for certain assembly plants back in the day. The records are not complete due to the fact that they depended upon what records Chrysler (and other manufacturers) decided to send them at the end of the model year. They do not have any 1970 model year shipping records for the Hamtramck Plant.
Quote from: njsteve on April 26, 2020, 06:18:54 PM
NICB's microfiche info was related to shipping records for certain assembly plants back in the day. The records are not complete due to the fact that they depended upon what records Chrysler (and other manufacturers) decided to send them at the end of the model year. They do not have any 1970 model year shipping records for the Hamtramck Plant.
Dang! Well, I'm glad that someone has at least looked into it.
Thanks for the info.
Quote from: mccannix on December 15, 2019, 04:10:57 PM
I dont really have a lot of information on Canadian cars.
After I purchased my JS23V1B Challenger in 1986, I was put in touch with a gentleman
who was with the Chrysler Canadian Historical Society at the time.
My Challenger was sold new in Ontario and when I provided him with proof of ownership and the VIN,
he conveyed to me that mine was one of twenty-five 440-6 automatics shipped to Canada.
This was 1986 or so and the only time I talked to him.
Well I have one of the other Canadian JS23V1B automatics
Jaw dropping!
70 Challenger R/T 440 Automatic U code, FT6, Black roof/ interior
A01 A36 A62 Just about completed assembly
would the window sticker be the most reliable way to tell the " actual build date " since it went on at the end ? mine has the spd as 11- 2- 70 and the completed sticker date of 10-27-70 ...the door sticker is 10-70 .. also, it would show what factory installed options actually came on a car since that is what you paid for ?
it appears that the date on the bottom of the window sticker is the "print date" for that document
I believe this is the date it was releases to the factory or factory floor to be built, typically the "Actual Production Date" is 4-6 days later
while I have not seen any factory window stickers that differed from equipment listed on factory broadcast sheet, invoice, ADSN or fender tag ..... I have seen two invoices with notations on them for equipment that was different than what was actually on a delivered car (in both cases missing OPTIONS).
I saw the post about the fender tag being coded for n96 but it was delivered without the shaker.. the one that now has it.. a shaker shortage car?
was referring to this car .. with tags and sheet says it came with a shaker...would the window sticker show the shaker option if it was not installed ?? just for the conversation, not trying to stir things up !! https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Challenger/184466612426?hash=item2af31120ca%3Ag%3ANY8AAOSwKFlfclTK&LH_ItemCondition=3000&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-53200-19255-0%252F1%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fitm%25252F1970-Dodge-Challenger%25252F184466612426%25253Fhash%25253Ditem2af31120ca%2525253Ag%2525253ANY8AAOSwKFlfclTK%252526LH_ItemCondition%25253D3000%2526campid%253D5338071934%2526toolid%253D10001%2526customid%253D%2526srcrot%253D711-53200-19255-0%2526rvr_id%253D2659330823917%2526rvr_ts%253D6695d9b61750ac3db765ee1bffbe2701
Quote from: ek3 on October 26, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
was referring to this car .. with tags and sheet says it came with a shaker...would the window sticker show the shaker option if it was not installed ?? just for the conversation, not trying to stir things up !! https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Challenger/184466612426?hash=item2af31120ca%3Ag%3ANY8AAOSwKFlfclTK&LH_ItemCondition=3000&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-53200-19255-0%252F1%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fitm%25252F1970-Dodge-Challenger%25252F184466612426%25253Fhash%25253Ditem2af31120ca%2525253Ag%2525253ANY8AAOSwKFlfclTK%252526LH_ItemCondition%25253D3000%2526campid%253D5338071934%2526toolid%253D10001%2526customid%253D%2526srcrot%253D711-53200-19255-0%2526rvr_id%253D2659330823917%2526rvr_ts%253D6695d9b61750ac3db765ee1bffbe2701
My question about that car...is how would YOU restore it...with the shaker hood to match the tag and sheet(if it has one) or with a rally hood to match the story ?
Quote from: anlauto on October 26, 2020, 01:47:16 PM
Quote from: ek3 on October 26, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
was referring to this car .. with tags and sheet says it came with a shaker...would the window sticker show the shaker option if it was not installed ?? just for the conversation, not trying to stir things up !! https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Challenger/184466612426?hash=item2af31120ca%3Ag%3ANY8AAOSwKFlfclTK&LH_ItemCondition=3000&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-53200-19255-0%252F1%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fitm%25252F1970-Dodge-Challenger%25252F184466612426%25253Fhash%25253Ditem2af31120ca%2525253Ag%2525253ANY8AAOSwKFlfclTK%252526LH_ItemCondition%25253D3000%2526campid%253D5338071934%2526toolid%253D10001%2526customid%253D%2526srcrot%253D711-53200-19255-0%2526rvr_id%253D2659330823917%2526rvr_ts%253D6695d9b61750ac3db765ee1bffbe2701
My question about that car...is how would YOU restore it...with the shaker hood to match the tag and sheet(if it has one) or with a rally hood to match the story ?
However the owner wants to restore it. It will always be questioned either way you go so build it to your liking. Most in the hobby know the Shaker was not available on Challengers until late 70 model year. I have always heard a few were made early in the model year but have never seen solid proof.
This car reminds me of a story I was told in the early 80s
A guy stopped by a service station I was working at because I had my 70 Challenger R/T SE parked out front. He came to tell me the story that his brother had ordered a 70 Challenger R/T with a Shaker hood but they never shipped it because the hood was later determined to be unsafe with the additional hood bracing so in an accident it would not easily fold and would go through the window and take the head off the crash dummy.
My own 70 Shaker Challenger has an SPD of 630 and has the crumple zones in the hood so that it will fold in an accident.
:thinking:
Quote from: Morty426 on October 27, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
This car reminds me of a story I was told in the early 80s
A guy stopped by a service station I was working at because I had my 70 Challenger R/T SE parked out front. He came to tell me the story that his brother had ordered a 70 Challenger R/T with a Shaker hood but they never shipped it because the hood was later determined to be unsafe with the additional hood bracing so in an accident it would not easily fold and would go through the window and take the head off the crash dummy.
My own 70 Shaker Challenger has an SPD of 630 and has the crumple zones in the hood so that it will fold in an accident.
:thinking:
Same thing happened to me in 1970 with my Challenger R/T order, came with a R/T budge hood
My Shaker Challenger now has a SPD of 610
Bob
Quote from: Morty426 on October 27, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
This car reminds me of a story I was told in the early 80s
A guy stopped by a service station I was working at because I had my 70 Challenger R/T SE parked out front. He came to tell me the story that his brother had ordered a 70 Challenger R/T with a Shaker hood but they never shipped it because the hood was later determined to be unsafe with the additional hood bracing so in an accident it would not easily fold and would go through the window and take the head off the crash dummy.
My own 70 Shaker Challenger has an SPD of 630 and has the crumple zones in the hood so that it will fold in an accident.
:thinking:
I'm working for the authorities on vehicle regulations and we are appointed by the government to cover the regulatory work under UN in Geneva. US and Canada is of course also there and during the years we have often talked about the hobby during lunches and dinners. They know I'm interested in these cars and one official from Canada, working at that time, told me the same thing. Production was stopped and the bracing had to be changed. We often hear about a shortage but perhaps it's a combo. Perhaps there was a shortage because production was stopped. Maybe someone here knows more about this :notsure: